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    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #21

    Dec 15, 2010, 12:57 PM
    And the men of the city said to him on the seventh day before the sun went down, “What is sweeter than honey? What is stronger than a lion?” And he said to them, “If you had not plowed with my heifer, you would not have found out my riddle.”
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #22

    Dec 15, 2010, 12:59 PM
    How about those Cowboys!
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #23

    Dec 15, 2010, 03:12 PM
    NK, only you wouldn't get taking digs at a Canadian firm in response to your thread about mostly US corporate malfeasance by mocking the first lady's recent quote on obesity, which said firm contributes to as the world's largest producer of french fries - by the guy that began the thread on the nanny state banning happy meals which contain, french fries. :rolleyes:
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    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #24

    Dec 15, 2010, 03:12 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    How about those Cowboys!
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    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #25

    Dec 15, 2010, 03:56 PM
    It must make you feel like a real man!
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #26

    Dec 15, 2010, 04:02 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    It must make you feel like a real man!
    I didn't realize it was about feeling like a man, real or otherwise. Good luck with that.
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    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #27

    Dec 15, 2010, 04:29 PM
    Haha, good sarcasm!
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    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #28

    Dec 15, 2010, 05:04 PM
    Well Tom another one who wants to defend the indefensable, both capitalism and socialism are at the heart of many of the world's problems. There are two notions we must get rid of, one is the idea that the few can be exploited by the many (socialism) and the other is that the few can exploit the many (capitalism). There are a couple of others of recent origin, user pays (a form of capitalistic thinking) and the other is the universal provider syndrome (what's yours is mine). We have already got rid of the worst idea of all, one person can own another (slavery)
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    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #29

    Dec 15, 2010, 07:11 PM

    Capitalism is the most defensible form of human economic activity.As I already stated ,the examples cited in 'how it works' are not examples of capitalism at all.
    The big problem is that corporations are treated as something different than individuals . A corporation is nothing more than a group of individuals ,and should be treated as such. If it is illegal for an individual through neglect or malfeasance to harm other individuals than it is illegal for the corporation. Corporations likewise should not be granted through the legal structure special favors. The individual farmer should play on the same level field as ADM .

    At the same time a corporation is formed by individuals for the benefit of those individuals. It is not designed as some common good works project. The role of government is to protect individual rights ,and a corporation ,being nothing more than individuals has the same rights and responsibilities as individuals have.
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    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #30

    Dec 15, 2010, 07:13 PM

    Capitalism is the most defensible form of human economic activity.As I already stated ,the examples cited in 'how it works' are not examples of capitalism at all.
    The big problem is that corporations are treated as something different than individuals . A corporation is nothing more than a group of individuals ,and should be treated as such. If it is illegal for an individual through neglect or malfeasance to harm other individuals than it is illegal for the corporation. Corporations likewise should not be granted through the legal structure special favors. The individual farmer should play on the same level field as ADM .

    At the same time a corporation is formed by individuals for the benefit of those individuals. It is not designed as some common good works project. The role of government is to protect individual rights ,and a corporation ,being nothing more than individuals has the same rights and responsibilities as individuals have.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #31

    Dec 15, 2010, 07:29 PM
    You are obviously confused by the difference between legality and ethics. For some pecular reason individuals who work for corporations show similar confusion and that confusion brings us the worst expressions of capitalism. I'm not suggesting this confusion lies only with capitalism since it seems to arise wherever humans group together.

    The problem with capitalism lies in the idea that in a corporation the first loyality is to the stockholder and that everything should be subservient to their interests
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #32

    Dec 15, 2010, 07:41 PM

    Hello again, clete:

    He's also wrong about how many votes shareholders get... He thinks they should have ONE as a citizen and ONE as a shareholder. Somehow don't seem fair to me... Do they do that over there?

    excon
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    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #33

    Dec 15, 2010, 09:23 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, clete:

    He's also wrong about how many votes shareholders get... He thinks they should have ONE as a citizen and ONE as a shareholder. Somehow don't seem fair to me.... Do they do that over there?

    excon
    You have lost me, Ex, corporations have no vote.
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #34

    Dec 16, 2010, 03:45 AM
    I think the problem exists when a society puts wealth (or the appearance of wealth) as the ultimate goal in life. When this exists an individual or group of individuals will stop at nothing to attain their goal, this includes fleecing anyone by any means.
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    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #35

    Dec 16, 2010, 04:38 AM
    Note: Sarcasm font IS NOT engaged.

    I don't believe our society makes wealth its ultimate goal. My job and goal as a husband and parent is to take care of my family and I can do that better if I'm successful, and that is a more accurate picture of our society. Capitalism gives me the best chance at doing that, and the more successful I am the better off my family is and the better I am able to help others as well. That attitude is reflected in America's private generosity.

    A more dangerous goal is the elites consolidating power and sucking us dry on the false premise of wealth redistribution and social justice.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #36

    Dec 16, 2010, 04:43 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    A more dangerous goal is the elites consolidating power and sucking us dry on the false premise of wealth redistribution and social justice.
    Hello again, Steve:

    I can get behind your rant against wealth redistribution, but social justice?? Dude!

    I think Glenn Beck stole that phrase to mean something ugly...

    excon
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    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #37

    Dec 16, 2010, 06:13 AM

    Hello again, Steve:

    Never mind... I just watched Fox for 5 minutes... The dastardy "social justice agenda" of Obama is a buzzword over there. I still don't know what it means... Can you splain it?

    excon
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    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #38

    Dec 16, 2010, 07:57 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, Steve:

    Never mind... I just watched Fox for 5 minutes.... The dastardy "social justice agenda" of Obama is a buzzword over there. I still don't know what it means... Can you splain it?
    It's that “redistributive change" he so famously spoke of in 2001. It's his plan to “spread the wealth around," "economic justice,” "what the federal government or state government must do on your behalf."

    And what "must government do on your behalf?"

    Andrew McCarthy explains, "provide housing, clothing, education, health care, employment, a living wage that accounts for comparative worth (meaning the government, under the guise of preventing discrimination, determines what you are paid), limited labor hours, paid vacation and holidays, paid parental leave, nearly unrestricted trade unionization, social security (including “social insurance”), “equitable distribution of world food supplies in relation to need,” and so on."

    That's what it means.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #39

    Dec 16, 2010, 08:12 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    And what "must government do on your behalf?"

    Andrew McCarthy explains, "provide housing, clothing, education, health care, employment, a living wage that accounts for comparative worth (meaning the government, under the guise of preventing discrimination, determines what you are paid), limited labor hours, paid vacation and holidays, paid parental leave, nearly unrestricted trade unionization, social security (including “social insurance”), “equitable distribution of world food supplies in relation to need,” and so on."

    That's what it means.
    Hello again, Steve:

    As opposed to what YOU believe government must do on our behalf;

    Make pre-emptive and unlimited war on Muslims... Read every American's email, and listen to their phone calls, send drones after American citizens we don't like, increase the size of government to make sure that every woman DOES what you want her to do, increase police enforcement that makes SURE that people behave in a "moral" manner in their own homes, making SURE that gay people remain second class citizens, repealing health care reforms including the GOOD stuff, repealing Wall Street reform, even though it was Wall Street that brought us to our knees, making sure future presidents can torture, render and open secret prisons...

    There's MORE for sure... But given a choice between the two philosophies, it's not even close.

    excon
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    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #40

    Dec 16, 2010, 08:58 AM

    Gee, I don't recall saying any of that. Could you link to where I did?

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