[LethPhaos]

Hi all,

I have a question about being on multiple networks at the same time.

I have two networks at home, first I'll explain the topology of each of them.

Directly on my internet connection, behind my modem, there is a switch (which functions as a hub I guess). Behind this hub are 2 routers. Each router has a different network under it, with an own DHCP server and configuration.

I'll list the configuration I think you need, do ask more if you need any!

Network1:

Router: 10/100 SMC 7004ABR
LAN IP:192.168.2.1
DHCP range: 192.168.2.111-192.168.2.120

Network2:

Router: 10/100 Linksys WRT54GR
LAN IP:192.168.3.1
DHCP range: 192.168.3.111-192.168.3.120

Now, the linksys router has 2 wireless clients (but this is of no matter in this case I guess)
The wired router has 1 wired client (which is on a fixed ip address).

Now I have my computer, another, I didn't mention it before, which is connected on both networks with 2 nic's.

For network1 I set myself on a fixed ip 192.168.2.101, for network 2 I'm on 192.168.3.101.
The subnet masks and gateways are set correctly for each one of them.

Now I want to use internet via network1 (because on network2 the internet is slower because of the crap router), but I want to be able to view shares and share myself on both networks (windows share)

How would I accomplish that?

Thanks in advance,

LethPhaos

(P.S. the networks are functioning allright, even with me on both of them, but I don't know which one gives me internet. I can only see shares network1.)

EDIT: I'm on wired connections
EDIT2: computers on network2 CAN copy from my windows shares and I see the computers of network 1 AND 2 in my network places (except for 1 computer on network2, but this could be caused by it's firewall I guess) so that fixes one of my 2 questions. Only question remaining: which network am I using for internet, network1, network2 or both?

Another question that I came up with, is it possible to share a folder only on one of the 2 networks?

EDIT3: by dns'ing myself on irc I found out I'm using network1 for internet, as I wanted. Will I always be or will I be using the one that is first available when I boot?

[ScottGem]

First my question is WHY are you doing this? Second, I'm surprised that it works. Unless your carrier provides multiple IPs, the switch (a switch is a hub with more intelligence) should only allow the first network powered up to get an IP. I don't see how the switch can share the IP. Or how the switch will know to where to route packets it receives from your broadband modem.

Second, Your 2 networks are on different subnets since you have different values in the 3rd quadrant. It would be easier if they were on the same quadrant, you can still use different IP ranges for the different routers.

But, why not just connect everything to the Linksys. If you need more ports, then plug the switch into the router.

[LethPhaos]

My ISP provides me 2 IP addresses, that's why both routers work trough the switch (which is used as a hub in this case)

I need to be on 2 routers because the wireless won't reach the pc's that need wireless if I put it in here with the other router, and I want to be on the other router because it is more stable.

Both routers have DHCP enabled, that's why I put them on different subnets. It is more easy for me to understand my own networks this way.

Everything works, I hope I explained it so you understand anything of what I'm typing here ^^

I still have 2 questions though:

1. How can I force that I will use internet through network1 every time I reboot (because it is more stable)
2. Can I, and if yes, how can I, make windows shares that are different for both networks?

[ScottGem]

Do you pay extra for the extra IP? Also, you need to understand that a switch IS a hub, but with intelligence. A hub broadcasts data packate to each node on the network and leaves it up to the PC to decide whether the packet was meant for it. A switch sends the packet just to the machine its meant for.

You can daisy chain the routers and just use the wireless as an access point. That's how I have my system setup. My cable modem goes into my wired router and then I use the Uplink port to connect my wireless router. I then disable DHCP on the wireless and use it just as an access point. That would simplify your setup.

[LethPhaos]

No, the extra IP is included in my subscription.

I've tried the solution you provide (not with this linksys but with another router in the past), it should work indeed, but back then it didn't :/ and now I'm a little afraid of trying it again with this new wireless router. Maybe once in the future when I have some time to spare and no-one is disturbed by my attempts :p.

Thanks for your help!

Still, the 2 other questions remain unanswered :p Anyone?

Oh and a third one: Because of the materials my house was built in (thick concrete with lots of metal bars in it) my wireless loses connection every once in a while, is there a way to resume downloading an incomplete file someone was copying from a windows share while it disconnected?

Thanks for any help!

[ScottGem]

Oh and a third one: Because of the materials my house was built in (thick concrete with lots of metal bars in it) my wireless loses connection every once in a while, is there a way to resume downloading an incomplete file someone was copying from a windows share while it disconnected?

Thanks for any help!

There are Download Managers that will do that for you. Do a search for them at places like tucows.com or download.com.

As for the rest, there are a couple of other people here, like Ben and cajalat who may be able to help more.

I would also check with your carrier. Generally there is an extra charge for an extra IP. It may not be listed separately, but you might save if you only use one.

[LethPhaos]

No, the extra IP is free, don't worry, I'm not a total noob :)

I've checked a couple of download managers and neither of them could be used with windows shares, only ftp or http downloads.

[ScottGem]

Sorry I didn't pick up on that. Shouldn't take you so long to copy a file across the network that you can't re do it.

[LethPhaos]

Well, files are about 700MB each, and the wireless connection doesn't go faster than +/- 600kb/s, experience shows it takes around 20 minutes for a file top be copied

[LethPhaos]

When I booted this morning my internet came from network2, how can I force it to come from network1 every time I boot?

EDIT:
Found this:
To check the selection order of the network cards:
Right click "My Network Places" & choose "properties"
Click the "advanced" menu from the top of the window and choose "advanced settings"
This will show you the connection order of your network cards.
Try changing the order around and testing

Going to try it, I'll post back if it works every time I reboot

[cajalat]

LethPhaos,

ScottGem asked me to chime in so hopefully my advice will help you.

The thing about a default route is that it is intended as a "last resort" which by definition implies "one". So having 2 "last resorts" doesn't make sense. However, when you configure multiple defaults then only the first one in the list is used. The 2nd default is never used. You don't load balance between the two.

So you can do one of two things. You can either remove the one default gateway that you don't want to use, OR you can assign metrics to each default gateway. You can uncheck the "automatic metrics" and assign a higher value for the default route that you LESS PREFER. You can check to see what the current values are by issuing "netstat -rn" and look to the far right for each of the default metrics to get an idea of what to assign. How much different each metric is doesn't matter for the default routes. Only that one is higher (or lower) than the other.

This will ensure two things. 1) that you deterministically know which default you'll be using, and b) if you disable the port (i.e. unplug) on the primary default that the 2nd default will now start to work for you.

Now, regarding the local networks attached to each NIC. You will have the same access you had before since if again you look through your "netstat -rn" you'll see that both networks are there since you are directly connected to each of them. The default routes above have no impact on the directly connected networks.

Hope this helps.

[cajalat]

Well, files are about 700MB each, and the wireless connection doesn't go faster than +/- 600kb/s, experience shows it takes around 20 minutes for a file top be copied

I think you meant 600 kilobytes and not kilobits. There is a big difference. If it were 600 kilobits per second then a 700MB transfer would take 2.65 hours to complete. You're transferring 700MB in 20 minutes which is equivalent to 4.77Mbps (i.e. 600kB not 600kb). This tells me that you're running an 802.11b wireless (or 802.11g clocked down to b-rates) which is rated for 11Mbps. The 11Mbps is actually misleading since wireless uses a variation on CDMA/CA (Carrier Detect with Multiple Access/Collision Avoidance) technology. Which is to say that it is similar to the old days of when you had half-duplex technology. So the most you'll be able to transfer in any one direction is roughly just more than half. You can do better with UDP based protocols (upwards of 7Mbps). So the best you'll get for TCP based applications is about 5.7Mbps under perfect conditions. You're getting 4.77Mbps which is not unreasonable to expect on 802.11b. If you were transferring the same file across a wired connection running at 100Mbps full duplex then assuming that your PC's/hard drives aren't a bottleneck the time it would take to transfer the file would be 56 seconds. If you run 802.11g and force it to 54Mbps then the best you'll be able to transfer the same file will be around ~210 seconds (~3.5 minutes) (remember, wireless is roughly like half-duplex).

So in your case I wouldn't say that the transfer speed is an indication of a problem. I think its normal.

Hope this helps.

Casey

[LethPhaos]

Thanks for the wireless network speed information calculations!

Regarding the first reply, to be sure I always use network1 for internet I would remove the default gateway in the configuration of the NIC that is connected to network2?

I tried the solution I posted above and it looks like I'm on network1 for internet, but maybe it won't be always like this if I leave both default gateways specified?

Edit: my wless is g-standard, so it does go too slow but that's because of the thick concrete walls, the connection is always bad.

[cajalat]

Thanks for the wireless network speed information calculations!

You're welcome :)

Regarding the first reply, to be sure I always use network1 for internet I would remove the default gateway in the configuration of the NIC that is connected to network2?

Removing the 2nd default for the Internet you don't want to use is the safe bet. But by changing the metrics then you can configure the network to always prefer Internet1 unless Internet1 is down (i.e. loss of link on your PC's cable and not to be confused with the ISP side of the connection to your Internet1 router) then it would use Internet2's default gw.

I tried the solution I posted above and it looks like I'm on network1 for internet, but maybe it won't be always like this if I leave both default gateways specified?

I agree. It will not always stay that way because all it takes is for one of your NICs to negotiate first with the router managing Internet2 and you'll end up with Internet2 as your first default. This can happen if for whatever reason the router servicing Internet1 happens to be busy and doesn't respond to the DHCP request as fast as the router servicing Internet2.

Edit: my wless is g-standard, so it does go too slow but that's because of the thick concrete walls, the connection is always bad.

One of two things could be happening on your 802.11g. If you have a single wireless device that is associating (doesn't even have to be connected) using 802.11b (which you can on 802.11b/g devices) then everyone's speed drops automatically to 802.11b speeds (11Mbps). The other thing that could be happening is as you say if the walls are affecting your connectivity then the wireless router will throttle down in favor of better connectivity.

You could try and force only G connectivity (you should be able to specify that in the wireless router's config) and see what happens. The other thing you could do (just in case you may have overlooked it) is to boost your transmit power to max (you probably have but you never know).

You can also try to relocate (if you can) the wireless router to a different location within the room. Maybe get an extension RJ45 and power cord for it. Sometimes just shifting the location slightly will cause the signal to bounce or go through walls in your favor.

Good luck.

[LethPhaos]

I moved the router as close as possible to the location where the wless pc's receive the signal, in the router configuration it is set to wireless-g only and the signal is on 100%, so it really is the concrete ;)

As for the metrics, how do I change these, according to your explanations this really is the solution for what I need \o/

[LethPhaos]

I must warn everyone, never buy a Linksys WRT54GR, this screenshot shows one of the many reasons I think it sucks bigtime.

Just had to say it somewhere :)

The transmission rate is on Auto but I can't switch it to forced 54mbps because of this bug...

[ScottGem]

I have both a Linksys Wired and Wireless router The BEFSR41 and the WRT54GS. I've been very happy with both. And I've been very impressed by Linksys tech support.

I really don't think its fair to trash a product just because you had one bad experience with it.

[LethPhaos]

I don't trash Linksys, I trash the wrt54gR because of it's bad firmware, If linksys would update it there would probably be no problem anymore.

But the latest firmware on the site is 1.01 and my router already has 1.04 so I can't flash it.

[cajalat]

You might want to save your firmware and downgrade to the 1.01 version. From reading various newsgroups it seems the 1.04 release for the 1.1 version of the hardware is not really supported by Linksys. Others report the same problem you're having and that the 1.01 fixed many of the issues they were having. Check out the Linksys forum for more info.

I have the WRT54GL and I absolutely love this thing. I installed a Linux based firmware on it and it gave me a TON of other options. I looked briefly to see if they have a firmware for your model but I can't seem to find it (www.dd-wrt.com).

Casey

[LethPhaos]

How do I backup my current firmware because I've thought of downgrading but I couldn't find a way to extract my current firmware first

EDIT: after changing the metrics of the NIC connected to network2 to "2" my internet got very slow, when I put it back on automatic everything was normal, is this normal?