[cometothis]

So, I'll make this as concise and brief as possible, but you must know I'm at my wits end here. I'm thinking of leaving my girlfriend because of this issue and some others in our relationship. How interconnected they are is a difficult thing to decode, but...

My girlfriend and I were friends for several years before we started dating. Our personalities and perceptions of each other were clearly different then. She was 6 years deep in a MOSTLY long-distance relationship. Where I was 4 years deep in a bachelor pleasure fest. She had only had 1 or or 2 partners. I, over 20. Her boyfriend broke up with her, potentially because of the continued long distance and her career ambitions that made them living in the same city hard, but he ended it by saying he no longer loved her. I had learned the error of my wiles and had spent a year in siberia (not literally) maturing, returned to the city to find her single. We immediately hit it off! And, quickly made our intentions known. Courted each other for 2 months before finally having sex for the first time. I was really excited! I respected this woman. She's brilliant. Sharp. Witty. Hilarious. Ambitious. Everything I was looking for in a partner.
It had been 8 months since she had sex so things were slow going... but that was okay. I was really into this girl. 6 months into dating and we exchanged "I LOVE YOU"s. I felt it! And, I still do. MORE THAN EVER! I LOVE THIS GIRL! But, there are serious sexual issues. She had only climaxed once... (forgive the title, for keywords sake)
She doesn't masturbate and is bedeviled by the fact that I do? I find this puritanical, incredibly simple minded and uninformed. We've come to loggerheads over this and I honestly can't believe a modern, intelligent woman hasn't taken ownership of her own sexuality. She is fixated on the fact that I might be thinking about someone other than her during my own private sexual experiences... so, she clearly has control issues, too. I've told her that I'm not going to stop masturbating, that it's a healthy part of my sexual life. I don't over masturbate, maybe every other day, at that.
She won't give me blowjobs. I've received maybe 10 in our 2 years. She hates the smell of ***, and hates it in her mouth. I've never ejaculated in her mouth. This really frustrated me. But, wasn't a deal breaker at all. I voiced that I would like more head on several occasions, in polite non-jokey ways. I told her it was something I enjoyed and would like more of. Still nothing... but, honestly I can live without. It wasn't that big of a deal.
The kicker... The last orgasm I remember her having was over a year ago. I *** every time. For her, I have tried everything. I've read all the other similar posts on this site, and several others, and after talking to my closest friends... romantic foreplay, sexual foreplay, asking her to be vocal, massaging, varied/attentive/soft/hard oral stimulation, her on top, different positions, encouraging masturbation, both private and together, manual and penal g-spot attention, mentioned toys - out of the question,. I am attentive, but not over bearing, and that's been confirmed by her. I addressed all of these things to her directly, indirectly, in a healthy a way as I knew how. Voiced my concern, saying I needed her help, saying and meaning that it wasn't my pride, it was me wanting to please her, fully, taking our relationship to the next level, fully realizing it. THEN giving her months of room to implement, without me looming over her shoulder (so to speak). I wanted her to own this, so she could grow at her own speed. I knew this all had to be organic, but still the problem persisted AND she's completely NON VERBAL about it. I have to bring it up. She WILL NOT TELL ME WHAT PLEASES HER IN BED. Tight lipped (forgive the pun). She's claimed that I'm too focused on the sex of it all. So, I've spent the last 8 months really focusing on her emotional needs. We got to and exposed some core trust issues on her part and some behavioral issues on mine. We identified them and agreed to work on them. I feel like I'm carrying my weight in that department, but it's becoming hard NOT to resent her. I feel like I've done right by myself on several occasions, bringing it up when I had to, and have been responsive to her needs. I mentioned going to see someone and she scoffed. She is not friendly to therapists given a tenuous past with them. Also, giving her space so she didn't have this hanging over her. But, how can it not? Orgasms either happen or they don't. Still, we pushed on. She has never been able to explain to me why she can't orgasm. I haven't explicitly asked her about her orgasms before me, maybe I should. I'm lost... here's my working conclusion. Please tell me what you think.

I love her. VERY MUCH. I think we have very different sexual pasts and needs. I'm a little more tapped into my nervous system than her. I think spending her entire college years in a long distance relationship, with very limited and brief sexual encounters, stunted her sexual growth, but excelerated her emotional intelligence, which sadly is now being used against her. I believe a mutually healthy and enjoyable sex life is one of the cornerstones of a relationship, not THE cornerstone, but one of them. Without it, we can't take the next step, move in together, etc. If she can't orgasm because of emotional issues, I find that unacceptable... I have made myself more than available emotionally, proven myself to be someone worth her trust, worth her feeling comfortable around, I take that very seriously, and if that's still the case then I fear she needs to find someone else who can support her more, that I need to find someone else. If she can't orgasm for biological/physical reasons, then she needs to suck it up and go see a specialist with me or by herself if that makes her more comfortable. She doesn't talk to ANYONE about sex. Not even her best friend. She is completely opperrating in a vacuum, her own thoughts just amplified over time. And, NO, she has not been sexually abused, by her own admission. I really believe she needs to take control of her sexual life, find someone to talk to, if it's a friend, fine, if it's a therapist great. But, she must feel so alone and trapped with this problem, something I'm not able to help her with, and not for trying. If she won't find someone to talk to then I take that as a sign that she's not as serious about this relationship as I am, and I will need to move on.
I might add that we are both very busy career people, working very high-stress jobs that take up a lot of time. That can sometimes make things hard, but it's also something we love about each other. I wouldn't change that at all.

Thoughts? Questions? Concerns? I've put a lot of thought into this, but it's not all here so please ask questions if you're confused or think I'm glossing over something.

[Fr_Chuck]

I guess the issue is your attitude toward her and her beliefs, if she does not believe in something, you are selfish and rude to call her names for it.

Next is she complaining, and why her not having a organism is such a big issue to you, since you are?

I would say that you are wanting to make her something she is not, instead of actually loving her.
** I don't believe you do, or leaving her would not be an option

[cometothis]

IN RESPONSE to Fr_Chuck's answer (I needed a bit more than 250 characters)

Thanks for the comment. I believe your first sentence is about the masturbation issue. I am not calling her names. That would be deconstructive and rude. Far from it. We have had several intelligent, meaningful conversations on the subject AND we do disagree on the benefits of masturbation, but in no way am I forcing her too. I wouldn't even know how to go about that. "Masturbate or I'll break up with you!" Our relationship is much more mature than that. It's an option that worked for me, among many, to help me understand what I liked sexually. And since it was something that she hadn't explored I offered it up. I'm not saying that her "belief" is an insecurity, but it's something we disagree on. We share many of the same core values, and differ on some (like most relationships -- but masturbation is a very SMALL part of this discussion)
Now complaining, I guess that's what all of these posts read like. All I can say is that I'm doing my best to communicate my needs in as healthy a way as I can. She has asked why it's such a big deal and I've responded... I believe that a healthy sexual relationship, the kind I would like to be in, involves mutual sexual pleasure where both parties, on a relatively consistent basis, orgasm, and are receptive to the needs of the other. (as long as those needs don't permanently prevent the other from orgasming). Sex, even in Christian relationships, is a fundamental part of your union. Not the biggest part, but not small.
Now the wanting her to be something she's not is kind of a cheat response, but also potentially very true. It's only wanting her to be something she's not when you stop growing together. I want to grow with her. I want to grow for her. I am fighting to make this relationship work. Trying to communicate. Expand. Explore. Understand. And, if you take my love for her as truth instead of finding ways to invalidate it -- your response could be much more helpful since I'm explicitly saying I LOVE HER, but also much more difficult for you to write. So, for all future commentors, please find a way to work within the context that I love her. Thanks again for the response, I find this ALL really helpful :)

[cometothis]

See my response! I ran out of room here...

[Enigma1999]

So this is how I see it. I do believe that you love her, and she loves you. It seems to me that she has trust and communication issues, which may have stemmed from her childhood or perhaps a previous relationship. That is something that SHE is going to have to get passed, with your help of course.

I realize that there are two sides to every story, so I may be jumping the gun here, but it does sound as if you have tried every avenue.

The relationship, other than having a hard time reaching orgasm, does sound like a good one. However, I do see some pressure on both parts. Yours, as well as hers. You so desperately want her to have a orgasm, that now it seems as if it is taking out all of the fun in making love.

I was with my Husband for a total of 9 years, and we made love a lot. I only had 5 orgasms through penetration. That's right, 5... That never really bothered us, because the sex was still great and I would just have him go down on me to finish me off. None of that ever ruined our sex life, nor did we cry about it. The funny thing is, after we got divorced, I started seeing a man where when we eventually started having sex, I had an orgasm EVERY TIME. BUT, I still thought the sex with my Husband was so much better, simply because of our strong connection and love for one another. So you see, you can still have a strong connection with her, even if she doesn't have an orgasm through penetration.

I also just want to point out, that a lot of women can't orgasm through penetration alone. There are some women who can only orgasm by having their clitoris stimulated by fingers and tongue.

You did mention that you give her oral, well when you do, does she have an orgasm?

For her though, I think it's more mental. After all, you did mention that you both are very busy career people with high stressed jobs. That too can have a lot to do with it. Stress affects the libido.

As far as certain things that she doesn't like to do, such as masturbation, giving you oral, etc... Well, that is just her, and that is something that won't change.

Is it just the fact that she can't orgasm that frusrtates you in the bedroom? In other words, are you two enjoying the sex for the most part?

Also, does she complain that she can't orgasm?

[Cat1864]

cometothis, I think you missed Fr_Chuck's point. She isn't orgasmic and you are trying to make her that way because it is the way you believe she should be. Some women, even those who masturbate, do not orgasm because they aren't wired that way whether it is physical or mental would be for her to find out IF she wanted to.

Quite frankly, you say it is for her, but you contradict that by saying you are thinking of leaving her over it (among other things).

Your trying to make her orgasm is as wrong as her trying to make you stop masturbating. Either you accept each other as you are allow the relationship to grow at its own pace instead of the one you think it should or you let the relationship and her go.

Something to think about, there are couples who are extremely open about sex and masturbating and discuss it with others still take decades to fully get comfortable with each other about certain acts.

[cometothis]

Enigma1999--

Thanks for your comments! Thanks for sharing your story, husband and post divorce. That's fascinating. The sex can be better despite the result. I feel that, too. It's comforting to know that a woman can feel that way, and it's sometime hard to understand that, know that for sure, when you're on my side of this story. Sex with my girlfriend isn't the best sex I've ever had, in a purely physical way, but it's the sex I want to have more than anything because its with her. Our connection is deeper and stronger than I've ever felt. I think she might fear that she's not the BEST SEX of my life and that makes her uncomfortable. She's said something near that. I try to verbalize how much I enjoy our sex, so she knows and isn't alone with that. But, it's hard then asking her how she enjoyed sex. That doesn't stop me, nor is this an every encounter type question. I need to find a new way to measure my sex with her, because right now I'm not happy. I need more communication, understanding and I think that will lead to more enjoyment. But, as you all know. Talking about this stuff with your partner is INCREDIBLY hard, and tedious. These conversations can take the air right out of the room and both parties end up throwing in everything and the kitchen sink. So easy to become defensive and to complicate this further, because to comment on your sex feels like someone's pulling the rug out from under you. It all just reaffirms how complicated and textured our connection to the bedroom is.

Oh man, wouldn't that be hilarious if it was me NOT going down on her that's the problem? I know penetration isn't the most likely avenue to her orgasm. I routinely go down on her and spent a majority of our first 6 months going down on her in every encounter. Now it's more like every other encounter. I manually stimulate her as well. She does not orgasm and has never orgasmed from my oral. Sometimes things get over stimulated so I've adapted and am very gentle and indirect when I sense her being too stimulated. I've asked her to tell me when I do something she enjoys or is potentially painful. But, she hasn't taken me up on that offer. It's tit for tat to think that she should return the favor, which is how I felt at first about the lack of oral from her, but now I'm just excited to maybe get a chance to please her, make her feel special. Also, I really enjoy doing it, so...

Stress does have a huge affect on all this, but we've been using that as a crutch for too long. It's allowed us to not talk about this stuff at times and to let some hard conversations slide. The stress is rarely going to go away so we need to find a way to think past it. Oddly, I think a healthy sex life, and orgasm filled one, could really help us cope with our work lives. I know that's the case for me.

I'm totally happy looking past the masturbation and blow job stuff. That's just part of the narrative. I just want the sex to be more fulfilling for both of us. Which leads me to your final thought. For the most part, I'm enjoying the sex. It could happen more frequently (only 2 or 3 times a week now). But, otherwise I like our sex. I would definitely enjoy it more if she was orgasming, if she was more passionately into it, I knew she wanted it for her and not just because she knows I want it. And I don't think her orgasming is something I shouldn't want for. Does accepting her really mean I have to give up on her ever having an orgasm? And as you might of guessed, she DOES NOT complain about her not orgasming. And, I've asked her why? She couldn't tell me. I hypothesized... is it because you don't want to hurt my feelings or because you're satisfied with the sex as is and don't need to orgasm? Her response, I enjoy our sex. [full stop]

Humph!

[ITstudent2006]

You seem very smart and good with words but your feelings and intentions can't hide behind big words and complex sentences. All I see when I read this post is "I want, I think, I believe" when did relationships become about what one party wants?

Obviously she isn't making it a big deal because to her it isn't one. Some people don't look at sex the same way as others. You believe it's important and a cornerstone of a healthy relationship. She obviously does not. You are by far much more sexually intuitive, don't hate because she's not!

[Enigma1999]

I am a firm believer that if two people are having sex, that they should be able to discuss it with each other. After two years, you two should communicate more about sex.

It does sound as if you are, her? Not so much. I have to say though that 2 or 3 times a week is actually pretty good. There are couples who only have sex 2 times a month, if even that.

Have you two thought about getting books on seduction and reading them together. You mentioned that she doesn't want to speak to a Doctor? How come?

I don't fault you for wanting to please her, however, she really needs to throw you a bone, because she is not really communicating to you what she likes and the fact that she doesn't orgasm from your tongue or penetration, only frustrates you, and most likely makes you feel inadequate in the bedroom. At least it would for me...

You mentioned that she had a couple other partners before you. Did she ever orgasm with either one of them?

[cometothis]

Cat1864--

Thanks for the response!! I really appreciate your thoughts. This is the exact kind of hardline questioning I need.

How does one find out they're NOT orgasmic? There's a process, right? No one just assumes or walks into a relationship thinking, I will NOT make my partner orgasm and to think that I will is putting my partner, unfairly, in a box. I don't think people want to be non orgasmic. My girlfriend has said she would like to orgasm. Now you may be right that she's non orgasmic, but neither of us really know that for sure, what a label to put on someone. I think we're getting close to figuring that out or something like that, but this is a terribly difficult process of trial and error, hope and disbelief. This is a 2 year old relationship and I think giving up hope for her orgasming is a bleak and defeatist attitude at this stage, especially since she's only been with 2 partners. It's still worth fighting for.

She may in fact be non orgasmic and not wired that way emotionally or physically. And you're right, she doesn't have to figure that out for me -- and so far, she's not. She doesn't have to do a lot of things for me, but when you enter a relationship and you have sex with that person and you reach a point where there's a rather noticeable disparity in the way we appreciate sex, it begs investigation. Now she can chose to not want to go down that road with me and not try and understand this more, but that choice ABSOLUTELY affects me. It shuts a door. Her inaction becomes an action.

I'm considering leaving her because communication on this subject has completely broken down and Im unsatisfied with her attempts to join me in making our sex life better, as I define it or as she would define it. Not because she doesn't orgasm. If she told me tomorrow... I can't orgasm, I'm sorry, but I'm just not wired that way, but I enjoy the sex we have and would like it to continue. That would be progress. I would know where to stand, put my expectations, but right now I'm left absolutely alone, to make up all of my own conclusions. That won't work. That's not growing.

Pace is an interesting point, and incredibly subjective. We're all left to follow our instincts. Her not orgasming has been going on since day 1, so 2 years in is a pretty patient amount of time to get to the bottom of this or at least see SOME steps towards entertaining the idea.

Thanks again for your comments. I really need this kind of debate to sort this all out in my head. I hope it doesn't come off as dismissive. I really am appreciative.

[cometothis]

I responded to your comment. Thanks again!

[cometothis]

ITstudent2006--

Thanks for the comment. These posts really do come off complaining and needy and bit pretentious, but it's always a good thing to check yourself. I'm learning, since that's why I posted this online (for myself), that I want, think and believe my girlfriend needs to tell me what she wants or this isn't going to get better.

You're assuming and oversimplifying a lot in the second part of your comment, but thank you for taking the time to read the thread.

[cometothis]

Thanks Enigma! I will bring up the doctor thing again, when I can. It's feeling more and more necessary. Books are a good idea too. I think we might laugh at it, but maybe that will comfort her, relax her. I have not asked about her orgasms pre me.

[cometothis]

I responded to your comment. Thanks!

[QLP]

Firstly, stop trying to give her an orgasm. Stop worrying about it altogether. Do keep trying to give her a good time and have one yourself but keep the big O word out of things. Nothing inhibits female orgasm like trying to have one or feeling pressured to.

Next, if she doesn't like giving you oral because of the taste why not get flavoured condoms. She won't have to worry about getting a mouthful... Yes I know nothing beats skin on skin and having your partner swallow can be important to a guy but compromise is better than nothing or war. If the flavoured condoms work out maybe you can progress to edible body paints, but with a strict agreement that you warn her when you are going to ejaculate if she cannot tell so she doesn't get any nasty surpise. I can't stress highly enough that you must pay strict attention to personal hygiene in that area if you want the administrations of her mouth, anything less will definitely put her off.

I am a female with a much more relaxed attitude to sex than my husband as it happens, so I can understand where you are coming from. What I can also see is that while you are relaxed about your own sexuality you are not at all relaxed about hers. I get it, I've been there. You really do have to accept that your partner will probably always be more inhibited than you. However, once you really accept that, and accept them for it, you may find in time that they do learn to be more relaxed themselves once they feel there is no pressure for them to do so. Worked to an extent for us. There will always be a difference, and we have been married 25 years, but I love him for it not despite it and each time he does let himself go a little more, and yes it is still happening after all this time, I really enjoy seeing that and sharing it.

Continue to express your own sexuality in a relaxed way, including your masturbation. Our partners have no right to ask us to change because of their inhibitions any more than we can expect them to drop all their inhibitions just because we can. Try to reassure her that your masturbation is not a substitute for her and doesn't take anything away from your relationship it is just down time for yourself. At least that's how I think of it. My hubby wouldn't object to me enjoying a good book so why should he object to any other solo pleasure I might feel like. Perhaps you can convince her that's all it is like really.

The differences between you have built and built until they seem unsurmountable. There will always be some difference I expect, but acceptance of those differences really is key to a lot of the problem. If you are all worked up in a bad mood and someone tells you to calm down or cheer up does it work? That's probably roughly how your girlffiend feels when you bring up the sex discussions. By contrast ever noticed that if someone around you acknowledges your bad mood, gives you the space to work on it, while cheerfully getting on with what they do,letting you know they are there for you if you need them, that your mood can lift all by itself after a while?

[ITstudent2006]

You seem very smart and good with words but your feelings and intentions can't hide behind big words and complex sentences. All I see when I read this post is "I want, I think, I believe" when did relationships become about what one party wants?

Obviously she isn't making it a big deal because to her it isn't one. Some people don't look at sex the same way as others. You believe it's important and a cornerstone of a healthy relationship. She obviously does not. You are by far much more sexually intuitive, don't hate because she's not!

Assuming and over-simplifying?

No where in your thread did you state that this is something she brought to your attention, something she is working on, something she wants done. By me saying what I did in the second paragraph is not me assuming anything, it's me taking what you gave me and given an answer based on factual evidence (your word) and common sense. It is not a big deal to her! Plain and simple, if it was you would have stated so in yout thread and she would be more open to the conversations you two have. Obviously she's not!

Over-simplifying? Do you know what that word means? You're accusing me of dumbing down what you said to a state where I distort the point you're trying to make! Please tell me what I suggested is distorting your situation.

This looks and feels like you're making too much of a simple concept. You want sex, she does not. You think it's important, she does not. You are worried over it, she is not! Pretty simple! Prettying it up by adding big words and complex sentences doesn't take away the fact that it's not as deep as you make it seem.

Obviously this is my opinion and I just hope it all works out!

[Synnen]

1. The female orgasm is 99% mental and 1% physical
2. Nothing shuts down the mental quicker than pressure to orgasm.
3. The next worse thing after pressure to orgasm is stress outside the bedroom.

Guess what? You've got all three working against you!

It took me YEARS of being sexually active--literally years--to figure my own body out. I didn't like to masturbate, and thought it was just too much porn that made partners ask me to do so (especially in front of them!). I enjoyed sex just fine with no orgasm, so I didn't understand what the big deal was!

YOU ARE PUTTING TOO MUCH PRESSURE ON HER!

YOU are. Not her. She's happy the way things are, though she'd like to orgasm, it's just not that big a deal. Here's the thing--and guys REALLY do not get this: Sex is nice without the orgasm. It's a good way to connect, it feels good, it's a special thing. The part men don't get, because it's so damned EASY for them to orgasm, is that you don't miss what you've never had. You know how good it feels just to play with yourself, with no expectation that you're going to orgasm? Or how good it feels to be ultra turned on, but without that drive to finish? That's how sex feels when you don't really know how to orgasm.

You're right in a way--SHE needs to own this. If she wants an orgasm, she's going to have to learn to masturbate and to communicate with you. And you're right that she REALLY needs to be able to tell you what feels good.

BUT--the whole idea that you're frustrated enough to leave the relationship because she doesn't orgasm speaks of absolute selfishness to me.

[IamMe2010]

Hey,

First of all I think it is amazing how you try to please your girlfriend and how you stick with her, despite the sexual problem. Well, I can't speak for all the women, BUT I am a woman and I have talked to lots of my girlfriends about sex ever since we had it.

There are only 2 reasons a woman can't orgasm- either something is blocking her mentally OR the man doesn't do it right for her. Sometimes its both combined.

Women need lots of encouragement, for example that you tell her that she is beautiful when she is naked, that she tastes good, smells good etc. Maybe she can't realx when the light is on because she feels exposed, maybeshe feels pressured to orgasm by now which makes it even harder for her to come. It took me years to have my first orgasm with a man, because I couldn't relax mentally. Until I met a man that totally knew how to get into my mind, how to make me feel comfortable and relaxed mentally. I think this is the biggest thing when you're still young. Then you got to touch and kiss her a lot, even without trying to finish the whole thing with sex. That will make her be curious and want it more-if you don't give it to her or if its unpredictable. Don't make the orgasm thing a big issue, because she will feel more and more pressured. I had this when I was about 20. The guy I was sleeping with told me something was wrong with me physically because I wouldn't orgasm. Every time we had sex he wanted me to come, told me this and after sex too. I felt so pressured that I couldn't even really think about anything else than coming , and exactly this prevented me from coming!

Be patient and don't make it a big dal. By now she knows that you want to please her. Don't bring up that topic again, and I'm sure it will happen.

[IamMe2010]

until a woman doesn't have frequent orgasms, she doesn't miss them... think about this... its like until you´ve had the best candy, you don't even miss it.

maybe she is just not that sexual. Might be another reason why she doesn't go down on you, she just doesn't feel that urge.

but maybe she is ashamed to do such things because she was brought up thinking that things like blowjobs and msturbation are "wrong" or not right for a woman. Even if she wants to do it, this might prevent her from doing it because its against her values and therefore feels "wrong" to her. This will be hard to change, but I wouldn't say that its impossible. Just be patient, don't force her, don't pressure her. Accept her like she is, that will make her feel comfortable. That's the biggest thing about a woman... accept her just the way she is ,and she will blossom like the most beautiful flower.

[smoothy]

Consider the followign possibilities...

#1. You are both sexually incompatible... (I've known women with sperm and other adversions that I considered enough reason to move on).

#2. She might consider the next step as marriage... not shacking up so you can shag more often.

#3. Also hits on what has already been said. Some things you can't force. Look at it this way... if someone demanded you enjoy yourself... NOW. Would you really?