[ScottGem]

I don't believe the readers will be available to the general public. Haven't seen any mention of that of the IT news about RFID.

So when given the passport have it read or taken to a passport office to have it read.

[Fr_Chuck]

Nope, read the Wired article.

I am just going by what some of the border patrol friends of mine have told me, that if it is not confirming the info, they will make you a person of interest and they will have to pull you out of line and check your information more closely.

The chip is merely a security tool, not a government plot, it is something to try and make our borders more secure.

[NeedKarma]

Like any other electronic device RFID can fail. It would be sad that you would be put in a database as a 'risk' simply because your chip failed in an otherwise very valid passport. I never mentioned anything about a "government plot", my issue is of personal privacy.

[Fr_Chuck]

Not in the data base, after you were checked out and cleared, you would be allowed to enter but you would be told to get a replacement.

What the procedure is, they scan the card, then look at the card physcially, if the info on the screen from the scan does not match the written matterial, the validity of the card will be in doubt.

Same thing if they read the card and it does not read, they will have doubt of its validity and you will have to be checked to see if you perhaps stole someone's passport and alterred it and disabled the chip trying to get pass.

The problem is currently those from the US have been able to use drivers license, state isssued ID, and even birth certificates, there are I believe 8000 to 9000 enities from the news report that issues birth certificates and acceptable ID, no way at all to tell good and fake ones.

So while in the change, we all have ID information on our ATM cards, our credit cards, those little strips that are swiped, they store all types of info on you This is just an improvement with tech advance.

People thought Drivers license and social security cards were the end of the world

Then credit cards then computers, people are basically scared of new advances they often don't fully understand

[NeedKarma]

The strips on our cards are passive devices, they require a card reader to pull the info off the cards. The RFIDS are always emitting their information to whatever receiver is set to decrypt the information. As we have seen from a multitude of DRM schemes, the encryption has always been defeated by the hackers.

[excon]

The RFIDS are always emitting their information to whatever receiver is set to decrypt the information.......

Hello:

Nahhh, the government wouldn't set up receivers anywhere to track you. They COULD, really easily and cheaply and you'd never know it. But they won't, because they're good people. I trust 'em. Don't you?

And, if I didn't trust 'em, I'll take my passport to a customs office and ask that government guy to tell me what my RFID say's. THEN, I'll trust 'em, because he wouldn't lie, would he?

I love my country too. But, I DON'T trust the government. The two are NOT the same.

excon

PS> As a matter of fact, NOT trusting the government, is a VERY patriotic undertaking - VERY!

[mr.yet]

Hello:


excon

PS> As a matter of fact, NOT trusting the government, is a VERY patriotic undertaking - VERY!

I agree, don't trust the government!:)

[tamed]

In the UK, they call this idea the ID card and it does exactly the same thing too. In fact, I think the proposal is to make sure that all the citizens of the EU has one. I do agree with those who say identity theft will be on the rise because lets face it, if the government can hack into the system so can the people. What I don't understand is why they feel the need to monitor our lives, aren't they playing God enough already?

[ScottGem]

What I don't understand is why they feel the need to monitor our lives

9/11/2001

[Fr_Chuck]

Do people want to go to a system where any fake ID can get you across a nations border,

You can take a name at random, or if you merely introduce yourself to someone and tell them your name... from city and state in the US

If you have any public records out there and almost everyone does for about 50 bucks there are web sites that will give you a lot more data than this new passport ever can.

There are web sites that show when I bought my house and for how much, how much more mortgage is and shows a plot of my house and all my tax info

My car loan has to be public somewhere since I get adds from other lenders that know exactly my payoff on my car and what kind it is

The fact my house mortgage was adjustable intereste ( until I changed it this year) was public since I received over a dozen adds in the mail that knew when it was going to change, how much it was going to change and al that data

[NeedKarma]

It must be a U.S. thing then because I don't get those ads here in Canada, nor does anyone I know. Plus I don't believe that we have those types of 'information brokers' here either (maybe we do and it's part of an underworld I am not familiar with).

[tamed]

9/11/2001

Please understand that this by no means belittles the severity of those attacks nor does it make this day any less significant, but these new security measures will not necessarily change the fact that there will still be terrorists born and raised in either the US or the UK and them having a passport with their details on it will not change what they believe in. It is very easy to say that these new measures are for our own safety but how much is it really?

[ScottGem]

It is very easy to say that these new measures are for our own safety but how much is it really?

See what you have is a Catch 22. You asked why they feel the need to monitor. I gave you the answer to that question. Your response is to say that the measures may not stop every potential terrorist. But is that any reason to drop the measures making it easier for more potential terrorists?

Already, several potential plots have been foiled by greater screening and diligence. Will one of them get through someday? I fear they will, but I don't feel that means relaxing our vigilance.

In my opinon 9/11 succeeded mostly because of the climate that existed prior to it. Airline passengers were told to sit tight and not antagonize the hijackers. The lesson of Flight 93 is such that I don't believe the tactic can be used again. Passengers are not going to sit still against a few people armed with box cutters.

9/11 changed the world we live in. Some of those changes are good, others bad. But Pandora's box has been opened. I think its going to be a fine line for govt's to walk to provide security without inhibiting freedoms. The question is where to draw the lines. I personally am willing to give up some freedoms and privacy for greater security. But I also draw the line. For example, I am dead set against warrantless wire taps. The mechanism exist for obtaining such warrants without compromising the investigation so they were not necessary and should be illegal. But would I mind having my bag randomly checked as I board the PATH some morning, no I wouldn't. There is nothing in my bag to get me in any trouble with the law.

[KMSRyana]

Frankly, I think Identity theft,while a very real problem is not as out of control as we have been led to believe.

I work with people almost every single day who have been victims of Identity theft. I have personally had to sit and entertain criminals trying to obtain fraudulent loans while the police where on the way, on several occasions. It's real. Very, very real. On that end I am concerned with the nature of the RFID device and how it works, because it isn't passive, it's 24/7 transmitting. It just makes it easier. The Padre makes some very valid points with how easy it is to obtain information about others as it is now. This will just make it easier, in my opinion.

[KMSRyana]

See what you have is a Catch 22.

100% agree. That whole post was thorough, well thought out, and well said. I still don't like the device. The idea itself is a good one, but there has to be a more secure way of doing the same thing.

[ScottGem]

I work with people almost every single day who have been victims of Identity theft. It's real. Very, very real.

Oh its very real. I have a shredder and every mail I get that has the remotest possibility of being used against me gets shredded. But I have been using cyberspace since the 80s before there was a WWW. I've been using computer banking for almost as long as there has been computer banking. I have too many credit cards and have shopped by Internet and phone. I've never come close to having my Identity stolen. It's a very real problem but I just don't think its as widespread as has been made out. I also think that much of the time where there is an Identity theft its due to carelessness on the part of the victim. Like falling for a phishing scam.

Thanks for the compliment about my Catch 22 note.

[tamed]

You see, that right there is what I mean. There are already "measures" in place that reduce/ foil potential plots. You have air marshals, stricter measures on hand luggage, finger printing and eye scanning at airports (and the list goes on), intelligence offices being at higher alert, these are acceptable measures but the only thing me carrying all my details around with me is going to help is proving that I am not an illegal immigrant. Those who carried out the attacks in London however, were born and bred there so theoretically speaking this new passport idea would not have change anything because they would still have all their details in check. Or have you forgotten that most of these people do not tend toi have criminal records?

The bottom line is that I don't think this passport issue increases our vigilance by one iota.
You are correct in saying that our attitudes have change with regards to hijacking and that the tactic may not be used again. 9/11 was a world defining event and indeed Pandora's box has been opened but the government have not treaded the fine line carefully and have thus crossed it. It is their duty to protect us and it is also their duty to make sure that protection doesn't take away from our liberty otherwise what would be the point of all the wars if we are to have our liberty taking away by those who have sworn to protect it?

Just because we have nothing to hide does not give the anyone the right to invade our privacy. You say that you are against unwarranted wire tapping but how is that different from them knowing your every movement? To borrow from your Pandora's box analogy, once your movements have been tracked, why not your phone calls?
We have worked hard for this freedom we uphold, countless of people have died because of it, wouldn't freely giving it up spit in their faces?

[ScottGem]

To borrow from your Pandora's box analogy, once your movements have been tracked, why not your phone calls?
We have worked hard for this freedom we uphold, countless of people have died because of it, wouldn't freely giving it up spit in their faces?

That's not the Pandora's box analogy, that's the give them an inch they will take a mile adage. The answer to that is you have to have guardians like the ACLU for example (yes I know they tend to go too far, lets not get into that) to safeguard the freedoms.

But this goes with what I was saying. I really don't care if the govt knows where I go. I'm not bothered that they can use my EZ-Pass to know when I've crossed the Hudson. I don't care if they know I went to Fort Lauderdale several years ago (I actually stayed in the same motel a couple of the 9/11 hijackers stayed in though at different times). None of those things bother me.

[tamed]

But this goes with what I was saying. I really don't care if the govt knows where I go. I'm not bothered that they can use my EZ-Pass to know when I've crossed the Hudson. I don't care if they know I went to Fort Lauderdale several years ago (I actually stayed in the same motel a couple of the 9/11 hijackers stayed in though at different times). None of those things bother me.

I guess that's one of the many differences that makes us all individuals. Even if I don't have anything to hide, I would still like my privacy.

[KMSRyana]

Tough issue. Let's just not vote on it, the government will just alter the results.:rolleyes: