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Carnar · Oct 18, 2010, 01:09 AM

Hi,

Plumbers recently changed the pipes and installed new tub/shower valves in our building. But since they changed the shower valve (Moen single-handle Positemp that turns 270 degreees but doesn't pull out), hot water comes out when you first turn the handle counterclockwise. It gets cooler as it goes from hot at the just-open 6 o'clock position to 3 o'clock (where, at maximum coldness, it is now somewhere in the vicinity of lukewarm/tepid/cool, but definitely not COLD). It then gets hotter again as you turn counterclockwise from 3 o'clock back to 9 o'clock, where it is fully hot. So the water goes hot -> lukewarm/cool -> hot, but there is no unadulterated cold water ever, so clearly there is a crossover problem. But where is it most likely occurring? Is simply changing the cartridge likely to fix this (as Moen customer support have suggested)? Or is there something else that is more likely to be causing this problem?

Looking forward to hearing from any of you have encountered this problem before!

massplumber2008 · Oct 18, 2010, 03:05 AM

Hi Carner...

The cartridge is actually a mixing valve in itself... also anti-scald protection... so it makes sense that the issue could be a defective cartridge.

You could try to pull the cartridge out and rotate it 180 degrees and then see if the issue is resolved, but other than that have moen send you that new cartridge (free of charge) and you should be all set!

Mark

speedball1 · Oct 18, 2010, 06:53 AM

Hot water coming out at cold water side of Positemp valve

This is a common complaint when the installer fails to check his work. Mark nailed it with

You could try to pull the cartridge out and rotate it 180 degrees

Pop the button off the handle and remove it. Now rotate the stem so the bottom faces the top and reassemble. Work better now? Good luck, Tom

Carnar · Oct 18, 2010, 04:27 PM

Hi again,

Thanks for the responses! I was ready to open it up and try rotating the cartridge when I realized that my 7-piece hex wrench set doesn't have the 7/64" hex needed to remove the handle, so I'm going to go pick that up later. In the meantime, thought I'd just make sure (since the plumber here was doubtful that simply rotating the cartridge would change anything... ) before going ahead that rotating 180 degrees is not just going to reverse the problem, so that where there is no cold water unmixed with hot now, there will be no hot water unmixed with cold after rotating. I can see that if the water started fully hot then got fully cold on the wrong side, rotating it would make it fully cold on opening and then fully hot at the other end, as expected. Why the hot-cold-hot behavior here? Why not just hot -> cold if it's on the wrong way, and then cold -> hot when on the right way? Just tryin' to understand...

Thanks again!

afaroo · Oct 18, 2010, 04:42 PM

Do as Mark suggested and make sure to shut off water to the Tub/Shower valve before removing the cartridge, if that will not work, call Moen at 1-800-289-6636 for free parts, Thanks.

John

mygirlsdad77 · Oct 18, 2010, 05:09 PM

Sounds like a faulty cartridge. Replace as suggested above and please let us know how things work out

massplumber2008 · Oct 18, 2010, 06:33 PM

It's all about how the cartridge lines up with things...

The fact is that sometimes cleaning the cartridge, rotating the cartridge and flushing the lines is all that is needed to fix issues like this... and it only takes 5-10 minutes to find out... right? So why not give a quick check?

If it works, great! If not, as noted call MOEN and get a replacement cartridge at no charge.

Mark

PS: The pipes should have been flushed without the cartridge in place to begin with so sediment/solder/flux, etc. doesn't mess the cartridge up in the first place. The instructions provided with the valve should be clear on this!

afaroo · Oct 18, 2010, 07:38 PM

I agree with mark if there is any debris inside the cartridge will cause all kind problems, Open the PDF below will show you how to remove and clean the Posi-Temp cartridge, Thanks.
John

Carnar · Oct 18, 2010, 09:58 PM

Thanks again for the replies and encouragement!

afaroo, it says in the cartridge cleaning pdf:

Many PosiTemp valves feature ¼ turn stops on the water inlets.
These stops are rotated using a screwdriver and turned to the
Vertical position for “OFF” and the horizontal for “ON”

My valve has these. Is this the only place where the water supply needs to be shut off for the valve for cleaning/changing the cartridge? Or does it need to be shut off somewhere else in the building?

afaroo · Oct 18, 2010, 10:47 PM

Yes these two stops will work, take them to vertical position the water should stop, before removing the cartridge try to move the handle to the open position and see that the water is stopped, if no water you are good to proceed to remove the cartridge if still water flowing then you have to close the main water shut off to the building, Thanks.

John

Carnar · Oct 19, 2010, 09:49 PM

Okay, I got all the front parts off, but now I can't get the cartridge out. (Yes, I removed the retaining clip!) This is a freshly-installed cartridge and valve, and I've been told it should come right out with no resistance, but it's quite firmly in place, and I've read of others making things worse by attempting to force it out. What should I do? I have a replacement cartridge from Moen, but not the "flimsy plastic tool" that apparently helps loosen the cartridge. BTW, the cartridge that's in there seems to be in the right way, with the "H|C" at the top as it should be.

Eagerly awaiting further instructions!

afaroo · Oct 19, 2010, 10:43 PM

Normally Moen is sending the small plastic tool with the cartridge, try to jiggle it use a pair of pliers if that will not work, you would need to buy the cartridge removal tool see the image below, one other thing once the cartridge is removed make sure you turn on the water for a few second to flush out any debris out of the valve then install the new cartridge, Good luck.

John

mygirlsdad77 · Oct 20, 2010, 03:29 PM

This is a new faucet, so the cartridge shouldn't be to stuck. You can try to use a pair of needle nose pliers, stich them in with one needle on each side of the cartridge, then use them to spin the cartride. Keep in mind, you are not gripping the cartridge with the pliers, but using them for leverage (one side of the pliers on the top left or right, and the other side on the bottom on the side opposite the top, then spin. Hope this makes sense. I use my leatherman for this all the time.