[bodbod]

There is no such sport as soccer.all countries have football associations teams play in football leagues and teams are football teams.(fifa)federation of international FOOTBALL associations.fa cup FOOTBALL association cup

[bluebkracer15]

That is true!!
I don't know why they call it soccer when everyone calls it football.

[oldcoach]

Although I agree that Americans are playing what most of the world calls "Football" when we play what we call "Soccer", I believe it would be quite confusing to simply call it "Football" in the USA. To most Americans, "Football" means something quite different. Can we agree on that?

If we can agree on that, we at least have an understanding of the dilemma. I do not believe that the NFL would be willing to change the name of their game. I also do not believe that FIFA is willing to change the name of their game from "Football" to anything else. We must simply be aware of our audience when discussing either game. This is part of being a world citizen. As the world becomes a smaller place there will always be conflicts of meaning. For instance, in some cultures the thumbs up gesture is an insult. It roughly means something like "up yours". No amount of discussion will change that. We must become students of the cultures with which we interact. To do otherwise is inviting conflict and is arrongant. The world does not revolve around any one culture, but begs each culture to understand the others and act accordingly.

Regards,
Oldcoach

[bluebkracer15]

I agree with you, but I still think that NFL had no right to call it football because football was a sport already. Why call it different in one country and be same every where else.

[oldcoach]

Bluekracker15,

Actually American Football is a derivation of the forerunners of Association Football and Rugby Football. Therefore, it has every right to call itself Football. Allow me to explain why. I would like to enlighten you regarding the history and continuing development of the games of Football around the world. Football in many forms has been around for over two thousand years.

The earliest form of Football was, the Tsu'Chu, used for exercise in the second and third centuries BC in China. 500 or so years later in Japan the football game of Kemari began and is still played today.(1)

The ancient Greeks played a form of football known as Harpaston, and the Romans played a similar game, Harpastum. In medieval times, a form of football known as Calcio flourished in Italy. Natives of Polynesia are known to have played a variety of the game with a football made of bamboo fibers, and the Inuit played a form of football with a leather ball filled with moss.(2)

Notice that Association Football and Rugby Football are not yet formed. They will not come into existence for another several hundred years.

Shrovetide Football, as it was called, belonged in the "mob football" category. Here the number of players was unlimited and the rules were vague. For example, according to an ancient handbook from Workington in England, any means could be employed to get the ball to its target with the exception of murder and manslaughter. Shrovetide football is still played today on Shrove Tuesday in some areas, such as, Ashbourne in Derbyshire. However, it is no longer so riotous as it used to be, nor are such extensive casualties suffered as was probably the case centuries ago.(1)

It is certain that decisive development of football with which we are now familiar took place in England and Scotland. The game that flourished in the British Isles from the 8th to the 19th centuries had a considerable variety of local and regional versions. They were subsequently smoothed down and smartened up to form the present day sports of Association Football and Rugby Football. They were substantially different from all the previously known forms. The earlier forms were more disorganized, more violent, more spontaneous, and usually played by an indefinite number of players.(1)

Association Football and Rugby Football only became known in the nineteenth century. Therefore, these groups and their related associations could have no influence on the game until after they were formed.

At the beginning of the 19th century several types of the game—all permitting players to kick the ball but not carry it—were being played at various English schools, including Eton, Harrow, and Rugby. The modification of the game that permits carrying the ball was first introduced at Rugby in 1823 when one schoolboy disregarded the established rules, tucked the ball under his arm, and dashed across the goal of the opponents.(2)

Carrying the ball was another development in one of the many varieties of football.

In 1863, a number of clubs devoted to the kicking game met in London. They organized the London Football Association, and adopted a code of uniform rules; this type of game was henceforth known as Association Football, and later soccer, a word derived from association.(2)

In 1871 a group devoted to the ball-carrying game organized the Rugby Football Union and adopted the rules then in vogue at Rugby School; that form of the game thereafter was known as Rugby Football.(2)

It is interesting to note that these games are all postscripted by the word Football, as is the next form of football, Australian Football. It should therefore be acceptable for American Rules Football to be called American Football.

Football was first played in Australia about the middle of the 19th century, based on rugby, soccer, and Gaelic football. Australian Rules Football (as it is officially called) is a fast-paced game, played on an oval field with teams of 18 players. The ball cannot be thrown but can be caught; overhand catching, known as high marking, and long kicking are the two distinctive features of the game.(2)

In the United States, a form of football using a blown-up bladder was played in the colony of Virginia in 1609. In 1820 students at the College of New Jersey (now Princeton University) participated in a soccer-like game, called Ballown, in which they advanced the ball by punching it with their fists. Intercollegiate competition began on November 6, 1869, with a game between Rutgers and Princeton. The game, however, resembled soccer more than modern-day American football.(2)

Harvard, preferring to use its own rules, abstained from this competition. In 1874 Harvard met McGill University of Montreal, Canada, in a match played under the rugby-like rules of the Canadians. The Harvard players, impressed, altered their own rules accordingly. Harvard and Yale played a football game for the first time on November 13, 1875, using Harvard's rules.(2)

The following year, representatives of Harvard, Yale, and Columbia answered an invitation from Princeton football representatives to attend a parley at Springfield, Massachusetts. The result of the convention included a new set of football rules and the formation of the Intercollegiate Football Association. Although the rugby-like rules of Harvard again prevailed, certain soccer rules were incorporated. The resulting combination of rugby and soccer became popular, and as time went on the rules were constantly changed until a new game evolved.(2)

Since the London Football Association was born in 1863 and the Rugby Football Union was formed in 1871, it is doubtful that they had any influence whatsoever on American Football. However, it is very likely that the proponents of earlier European Footballers influenced American Football in the beginning. This places American Football on an even field developmentally and nearly parallel with the formation of the London Football Association, the Rugby Football Union. Consider 1876, when the Intercollegiate Football Association was begun by standardizing on the Harvard rules.



Bibliography

(1) The colorful history of a fascinating game
More than 2000 Years of Football
By Dr. Wilfried Gerhardt
(Press Officer- German Football Association)

(2) http://www.thehistoryoffootball.com

[snuffy]

Soccer is taken from the official name for the game which is 'association football'. The word soccer is a word made up from the 'assoc' part of aSOCCiation'

So technically what we in england call football is really 'association football'

Similarly there is the game of 'rugby football',

And americans play their game of 'american football'


All 3 are distinct games, all have the right to be called football.

I must admit though soccer doesn't do it justice but at least th eword soccer cannot be mistaken for any other sport!

[Nez]

Not really any input from me,except to say that as a "footie" supporter in the UK,since I was six years old (my father took me to games till I was 13).Since then it's been with family and friends.Your history lesson is superb.Thanks for the link old coach.Well done.


Nez. :)

[oldcoach]

Thank you so much Nez. It is nice to receive appreciation for all the time I spend helping the people here.

Sincerely,
Oldcoach

[Svezda7]

The North Americans (US) (you have to tell us, what americans are you talking about, there are so many countries in "America", Cubans, Colombians, Argentinians, Canadians, Chileans, Peruvians, etc etc...).
I have just answered a friend about this confusion with names. Football means Foot (your foot), and ball (ball, the round object), so it is a game in which you use your feet, not your hands. So the "Football the Yanks play it's either "US Rugby" or "Handball", they spend like 95% of the time with that weird object in their hands. Everywhere else in the World "Football" is played like 99% of the time only with your feet, except for the goal keeper, or when the ball goes out of the field on either side. Whatever other explanation doesn't make sense ... Besides the Yanks are always changing names of things for their convinience... And it is only those outside the USA that help them when they accept these changes, they invented the word SOCCER, out of the name Association of.... besides the history of one country is not thte history of the whole world. You just can't be understanding with them, they take this as an edge.

[oldcoach]

Svezda7,

Where did you get this information? Did you make it up? Did you check my references? You insult the intellegence of all our readers by making claims without supplying facts (References). I don't know where you are from, but since you called me a "yank" I presume it's England. Please give me a little background so that we can discuss this further instead of lofting insults.

Thank You Kindly,
Oldcoach

P.S.- I am an American and I live in the United States.

[CaptainForest]

Why is it that us Canadians always get over looked?

We called it soccer as well. To us, football is the same as the USA Footbal. But unlike the NFL, we have the CFL, where the Edmonton Eskimos just won the Grey Cup today. I'm glad they won and beat Montreal as it was Montreal that knocked Toronto out of the playoffs.

[oldcoach]

CaptainForest,

I didn't forget you. The Canadians actually contributed much to American Football and I want to thank you for reminding me.

See my response, called "Enlightenment", posted on this thread:

"Harvard, preferring to use its own rules, abstained from this competition. In 1874 Harvard met McGill University of Montreal, Canada, in a match played under the rugby-like rules of the Canadians. The Harvard players, impressed, altered their own rules accordingly. Harvard and Yale played a football game for the first time on November 13, 1875, using Harvard's rules."

Thanks,
Oldcoach

[echtfer]

"soccer" was not a generalized word used by everyone at the time in england, nor was it something that lasted for more than a few years. This is why in England it is now called football not soccer (among other names... ) and this is why it was translated as football in every other language.

I have done quite a lot of reading and research and feel comfortable with what I found. It's evident that 'soccer' is a word that the US media and 'american football' organizations in particular are promoting to differentiate what we call football from their form of football. They are using the argument of football being called 'soccer' at its inception as a widely known fact, which is wrong and simplistic.

There are plenty of links that explain the origins of football, rugby and american football, some more biased than others. I am not going to post only aparts from one or another. The following is the link of the FIFA (federation Internationale de Football Association) which represents all the official football organizations of countries in the world, including the US.

http://www.fifa.com/en/history/history/0,1283,1,00.html

North American schools were influenced by English universities at the time, and rugby was one of the things that came along with it. Rugby was seen as the sport that 'high class' students should play in English schools. Of course there were variances of football being played by immigrants here in the US before the rules were stablished in England, but that is not an indication of american football being stablished before rugby or football. Curious enough the first 'American football' like game played between schools here in North America was years after the rugby and football rules were defined in England.

- Echtf

[oldcoach]

You Said:
They (The media) are using the argument of football being called 'soccer' at its inception as a widely known fact, which is wrong and simplistic.

I agree... The media often slants the truth to reinforce it's own agenda. That is why we, as informed individuals, must check the midea's sources and seek other, independent, references to varify what is the whole and proven truth.

Every person that communicates with another must keep in context what they say and what they hear. It is our responsibility to be good communicators. Many conflicts happen because of misunderstanding of exactly what someone said.

That is why I put "The media" in parenthesis above. So that the reader can understand how I interpreted your comment.

Thasnk You for your interest,

Old Coach

[Simón T.]

Football (English-French), Fútbol or Balompie (Spanish), Fußball (German), Futebol (Portuguese), футбольный (Russian), futtobo-ru or フットボール (Japanese), 橄榄球 (Chinese)... And the list goes on...
FIFA = Fédération Internationale de Football Association, and the name is in french, mainly due to Jules Rimet (French) it's founder and first president. As anyone can see, there is no FISA (Fédération Internationale de Soccer Association).
Every country, but USA, calls our Sport "Football" or a translation into their languages, although the sound of the word remains very similar, and it is not only a European thing, it is a worldwide sport. In América (not US-America) it is the most popular Sport, no wonder this part of the world has won more FIFA world cups than any other continent (Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay), in Europe Italy, Germany, England, and France have won the Football World Cup too. USA hardly ever participated in the FIFA World Cup, but just recently, due to the push and pressure given by the new generations. I agree with the latest posts about "THE US MEDIA" trying to push the other name (agenda) outside their borders.
The World owes it to the English the creation of this game. Hats off to our English fellows... They were the first to ever play it, and it was spread all over the Globe by them and those of other nationalities who watch it in England.
Unfortunately our friends in the USA, lived for a long time inside a shell, and everything they knew was something modified inside their borders of something they got from other countries and then they call it their own, though in the beginning it was done unintentionally. Today it is a matter of cultural world domination, among other ways of domination they pursue (not done by the common people, to whom I forward my respects).

Thanks,

Simón T.

[oldcoach]

Simón T.

YOU SAID:
Football (English-French), Fútbol or Balompie (Spanish), Fußball (German), Futebol (Portuguese), футбольный (Russian), futtobo-ru or フットボール (Japanese), 橄榄球 (Chinese)... And the list goes on...

I SAID:
I agree completely! Let's be aware of what each country/person calls whatever we are talking about and communicate accordingly.

YOU SAID:
FIFA = Fédération Internationale de Football Association, and the name is in french, mainly due to Jules Rimet (French) it's founder and first president. As anyone can see, there is no FISA (Fédération Internationale de Soccer Association).

I SAID:
I'm glad that you give the French credit for founding FIFA and agree whole-heartedly.


YOU SAID:
Every country, but USA, calls our Sport "Football" or a translation into their languages, although the sound of the word remains very similar, and it is not only a European thing, it is a worldwide sport.

I SAID:
That is true. Each country calls it Football when speaking to their own people, but they differentiate when they are speaking with a foreigner. IE- Australian Football, English Football, and American Football, etc. This is done because the games do differ and a distinction must be made. It eliminates misunderstandings.


YOU SAID:
In América (not US-America) it is the most popular Sport, no wonder this part of the world has won more FIFA world cups than any other continent (Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay), in Europe Italy, Germany, England, and France have won the Football World Cup too. USA hardly ever participated in the FIFA World Cup, but just recently, due to the push and pressure given by the new generations.

I SAID:
OK- So other countries have more experience than the United States in FIFA Football. The USA has more experience in American (US) Football. When the USA becomes better and more experienced they will also win championships. That does not have any bearing on what we call the game.

YOU SAID:
I agree with the latest posts about "THE US MEDIA" trying to push the other name (agenda) outside their borders.

I SAID:
I agree, As I said in earlier posts, "We must always check media sources and verify truthfulness."

YOU SAID:
The World owes it to the English the creation of this game. Hats off to our English fellows... They were the first to ever play it, and it was spread all over the Globe by them and those of other nationalities who watch it in England.

I SAID:
The English did not invent the game. They standardized it and refined it. Forms of football were being played much earlier than any European game. You said yourself that the french formed FIFA. So, according to you, the English didn't do that either. I do agree that Europeans spread Football (Other than USA rules Football) throughout the world. Be careful, arrongance is not a virtue.

YOU SAID:
Unfortunately our friends in the USA, lived for a long time inside a shell, and everything they knew was something modified inside their borders of something they got from other countries and then they call it their own, though in the beginning it was done unintentionally. Today it is a matter of cultural world domination, among other ways of domination they pursue (not done by the common people, to whom I forward my respects).

I SAID:
Thank you for differentiating everyday US citizens from politicians. Many couintries have the problem of power-hungry politicians (And big-business). There is a saying, "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely." People are imperfect beings and we all make mistakes. That is why God made us social animals and gave us brains to exercise distinction between good and evil and to be accountable to each other.

As we grow closer and learn to live together disagreements will ensue, but the best of us will enter into dialog, work out our problems, and live in peace.

Peace to you all,

Old Coach

[mrs.pennell]

Your history of football and soccer was very interesting, Old Coach. You are appreciated here!

Regards from Canada,

Mrs.Pennell

[rkim291968]

Guys, guys,.

Soccer or football or whatever it is called... I simply love playing it, and watching it. Don't get hung up on the name. It's the same thing, eh?

[echtfer]

rkim291968

To avoid misunderstandings, it's football not soccer when you are addressing an international forum or an international audience.

When you speak to people from other countries outside the US and New Zealand (I don't want to generalize and include Canada yet, unless Canada just follows suit with the US) you refer to the sport as football, simply football. Lately I have noticed some changes particularly in Australia.

When you grow up calling a sport that is played over 90% of the time with their feet football; it is not an easy task to relate the word 'soccer' to it. It simply does not make sense!

And could not agree with you more, it's a great game! Germany 2006 is coming!

-Ef

[geordie]

Hi.

I am pleased I came across this thread, with the superbowl coming up, and the World Cup this year, I have been having many conversations about American Football v's Football (a.k.a soccer).

Through reading this message I see a lot of references to England... it is not just england where football is referred to as soccer... but you know that I am sure.

I also have to say, that as an English person living in the states, I have noticed that there are a lot of things that have changed names, or spelling... guess it was that whole leap for indepence that caused it :)

Thanks all for the info.