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    Allie602's Avatar
    Allie602 Posts: 62, Reputation: 18
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    #21

    Sep 21, 2010, 10:50 PM
    This is a difficult one but if you both want to get past it lets see how it can be done. I am not judging you so try and read through what I wrote, I am far from perfect but I think if you pause and really look at yourself and are able to feel the shame and revulsion you should be feeling that you will be a better person for it. Some people have no capacity to feel what others feels and with out that, they are beyond anyone's help and should be kept apart from the rest of humanity. Murders and child molesters fall into that category.

    Sit down in a quiet place and write out how what you did effected her so grievously. What I mean is, it not enough to say you are sorry but that you must put yourself in her shoes and see your actions the way she sees them. That will take some compassion and empathy on your part and some pain if you are really sincere. You will have to go where she has been in her childhood and experience the evil that has been visited upon her. You will have to experience how you actions were reminiscent of that evil and how your actions have stirred up memories of being invaded and depersonalized. If you cannot feel the enormity of her pain at being sent back to that dark place by a person she trusted then I sincerely hope she stays strong and does not let you back in her life.

    As you say it, you have done this before and got away with it, which is a testament to the capacity of women to deal with and tolerate men and their sexuality which is sometimes ugly. You should have been charged with sexual assault because that's what you did. You did not have the consent of the women you touched and yet you did it anyway. You did you did not consider not consider the woman you assaulted before and you are not considering this woman. Now is the time to do that, now is the time to become a helpless little girl and feel what it is like to be violated or a woman and feel what its like to have a man you trust use your body without your permission.

    Give it time and feel it all. Now do you understand why people her have reacted the way they have to your request for help? I am not judging you, but I am asking you to judge yourself. You have no idea what you have done because you have not experienced the pain she has. When you say you have done it before to other girls, you realize that you assaulted women and you think that they should have great fun with it, you simulated a child-molester in your assault of your girlfriend and thought it was great fun. Can you blame the people here that they find you repulsive and what to get rid of you? You have no empathy towards women and that is dangerous and inhuman.

    She is a survivor and she needs people in her life to be her protectors like the parents that were missing to protect that little girl. She will never get the unconditional love of parents but if she could get the love of a man who has the strength to go where she has been and to be as much of what she needs him to be as possible. She can enjoy her life now but she cannot have anything done to her that smacks of what she experienced in her childhood.

    You did something that was criminal and morally wrong, Moreover you did it to a woman who has experienced unwanted sexual contact as a child - you were simulating a child molester for her. I am not saying these things to judge you but to try to get you to see how serous a violation you actions are.

    Her leaving was a sign of strength, it is very difficult for abusers of child abuse to act on their own behalf but she did. If she asked the question I would advise her not to let you back in her life and I would support her very healthy move away from you. I would tell her to find a good strong man who will understand her strengths and weaknesses and who will stand with her like a man and protect her like a man and leave the criminal behind

    You can't fix this because you most likely are not the right kind of man. If it has never occurred to you that touching a woman no matter what the nature of you relationship without her consent was wrong then you are not really good for anything,

    If you have any redeemable qualities, simply try for understanding. When you understand really understand you should feel shame and disgust with yourself then you know you got it. After you experience that, then forgive yourself and vow to consider carefully all your words and deeds and mare sure you are not wronging anyone.

    After you do those things come back and read these post again and if you still feel they have been unduly harsh don't bother to post again because you still don't get it.

    This is harsh but you need a hard appraisal, if it makes you angry and defensive so be it. But all the reactions you got here is a fair and honest reflection of your effect on people. You don't get often so use it wisely. I hope you will take this in the spirit in which is is given, an attempt by one mortal with a fractionally clearer view of the situation to aide another with a very clouded view. I an equally hopeful that this woman can move on with her life without further contact with you.
    Allie602's Avatar
    Allie602 Posts: 62, Reputation: 18
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    #22

    Sep 21, 2010, 11:00 PM
    Comment on talaniman's post
    Your concise post is so elegant - it took me paragraphs to try to say. I hope he gets it.
    Kitkat22's Avatar
    Kitkat22 Posts: 6,302, Reputation: 1191
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    #23

    Sep 22, 2010, 06:06 AM

    SEX is Sex... "Bringing a woman to orgasm is sex" Oral sex is sex! You don't have to have intercourse for it to be called sex.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #24

    Sep 22, 2010, 06:16 AM

    First, please don't attempt to dictate who will and who will not answer your question and in what manner - it's a public forum. Expect a wide spectrum of responses.

    I continue to be amazed that the very people who post the most "unusual" (for lack of a better word) behavior then turn into the most sensitive people on the Board.

    I work in the legal system in NY. "Here" you would be guilty of forcible sex, possibly rape. That is basically sex with a person who is incapable of giving consent. I'm interested in a very basic answer - what pleasure did you get (or plan to get) from bringing an unconscious woman (sleeping, passed out, who knows) to orgasm? And this is routine for you? Next step is a date rape drug.

    I would have had you arrested, boyfriend or no boyfriend.

    This whole subject gave me the shudders - one step from Necrophilia and/or sex with a blow up doll.

    And by the way - I was the victim of rape. He also "misunderstood" and thought I was protesting as part of the "sex game." He was wrong. I don't consent for any reason - it's sexual assault or rape.
    Kitkat22's Avatar
    Kitkat22 Posts: 6,302, Reputation: 1191
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    #25

    Sep 22, 2010, 06:37 AM

    NeedsHelp... I will say this about you, you are making yourself the victim here. No! I would not like waking up and find a man having sex with me, WITHOUT my consent. Maybe it's because I think a gentleman would Never do that. As far as sex goes, it's great! It's not great if we are asleep.

    You were caught! You are sad because you were caught. I would love to know how many women you have done this to, without their consent. You are in need of help.
    Cat1864's Avatar
    Cat1864 Posts: 8,007, Reputation: 3687
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    #26

    Sep 22, 2010, 07:16 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Needshalp View Post
    Unfortunately we no longer live close to one another so a couples therapy wouldn't help.
    Why aren't you living close to each other anymore?

    To be honest, with counseling and being able to be face-to-face, this would take a lot of hard work for the relationship to survive and probably wouldn't.

    Long Distance Relationships need a very strong base of trust to work and this relationship is already teetering. It may be best for both of you to end the relationship before things get worse.
    beachloverjohn's Avatar
    beachloverjohn Posts: 491, Reputation: 242
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    #27

    Sep 22, 2010, 09:09 AM

    I'm not going to judge you. I will keep my thoughts of this episode to myself. But unfortunately for you, your ex DID pass judgement on you. She felt what you did was totally inapproriate, and went as far as to accuse you of molesting her. And now you have not only betrayed her body, but her trust as well. Trust that probably took her a long time to gain especially coming from a sordid childhood as you stated.

    Now the advice. You created this wall that you now have between the two of you, and if SHE wants that wall to come down then you are going to have to be very very patient. You cannot rush her. You can't question her, and you can't see her if that's what she wants. What I am saying is that you will never convince her that your actions had good intentions, you meant well, you were doing it for her, etc,etc. You need to respect her wishes now, and let her decide without any of your apologies, excuses, whatever, whether she ever wants to go back with you or not. I'm afraid it's probably all or nothing with her, so give her all the time she needs. But remember this, YOU put the two of you where you are today, not her. So if it doesn't work out, you are just going to have to figure out a way to live with the knowledge that you destroyed a relationship that had the kind of love that could move mountains..
    beachloverjohn's Avatar
    beachloverjohn Posts: 491, Reputation: 242
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    #28

    Sep 22, 2010, 09:49 AM

    There is one more little piece of advice I can give you. I would try to "learn" from the posts that you didn't like and felt you were being attacked because they can be the most helpful of all. Not just because they were written by highly experienced and respected people, but because if you can be convinced and believe that some people might consider what you did as wrong, immoral, and stupid, then you might also agree that you should never take liberties with an unconsious person again. Then maybe you WILL except responsibility for your actions and be a better person for it.
    Kitkat22's Avatar
    Kitkat22 Posts: 6,302, Reputation: 1191
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    #29

    Sep 22, 2010, 12:56 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by beachloverjohn View Post
    There is one more little piece of advice I can give you. I would try to "learn" from the posts that you didn't like and felt you were being attacked because they can be the most helpful of all. Not just because they were written by highly experienced and respected people, but because if you can be convinced and believe that some people might consider what you did as wrong, immoral, and stupid, then you might also agree that you should never take liberties with an unconsious person again. Then maybe you WILL except responsibility for your actions and be a better person for it.
    Good advice John.. I really believe this op gets off on taking advantage of sleeping or "passes out" females. I don't believe for one minute a woman woke up while being molested and joined in. Not for one second do I believe that. You need help OP.. you need Psychiatric help. I would strongly suggest getting help before you find yourself in Jail or something much worse.
    Allie602's Avatar
    Allie602 Posts: 62, Reputation: 18
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    #30

    Sep 22, 2010, 10:10 PM
    I think the OP alluded to the fact that (I am giving my interpretation) he thought that since men like being awoken with a bj or hj in the AM that he was returning the favor by doing the same thing to the women.
    I think he mentioned that it is an acceptable sexual practice in his mind.
    I have that men do likes that but I have not heard of a man who felt moved to give his wife an orgasm while she slep as a reciprocal act. Can anyone enlighten me. I think men are usully reticent to proceed with sexual contact with their wives without their consent because they are so sensitive to rape issues.
    I don't think that most men would think of giving a woman an orgasm while she sleep because they would feel like it was raping his wife. So I think a man may welcome a woman sexual touch to wake him up but there seems to be a natural inhibition to do that to a women I never thought of that. I do it to my SO on occasion but I never even had the thought that he would try to give me an orgasm to wake me up it probably never crossed his mind either. Seems almost an unspoken assumption or one that does not need to be discussed. Some things go without saying.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #31

    Sep 23, 2010, 07:41 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Allie602 View Post
    I think the OP alluded to the fact that (I am giving my interpretation) he thought that since men like being awoken with a bj or hj in the AM that he was returning the favor by doing the same thing to the women.
    I think he mentioned that it is an acceptable sexual practice in his mind.
    I have that men do likes that but I have not heard of a man who felt moved to give his wife an orgasm while she slep as a reciprocal act. Can anyone enlighten me. I think men are usully reticent to proceed with sexual contact with their wives without their consent because they are so sensitive to rape issues.
    I don't think that most men would think of giving a woman an orgasm while she sleep because they would feel like it was raping his wife. So I think a man may welcome a woman sexual touch to wake him up but there seems to be a natural inhibition to do that to a women I never thought of that. I do it to my SO on occasion but I never even had the thought that he would try to give me an orgasm to wake me up it probably never crossed his mind either. Seems almost an unspoken assumption or one that does not need to be discussed. Some things go without saying.

    I don't think men are reluctant to initiate sexual contact with their wives for fear of being charged with rape.

    What Country are you in?
    beachloverjohn's Avatar
    beachloverjohn Posts: 491, Reputation: 242
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    #32

    Sep 23, 2010, 08:10 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Allie602 View Post
    I think the OP alluded to the fact that (I am giving my interpretation) he thought that since men like being awoken with a bj or hj in the AM that he was returning the favor by doing the same thing to the women.
    I think he mentioned that it is an acceptable sexual practice in his mind.
    I have that men do likes that but I have not heard of a man who felt moved to give his wife an orgasm while she slep as a reciprocal act. Can anyone enlighten me. I think men are usully reticent to proceed with sexual contact with their wives without their consent because they are so sensitive to rape issues.
    [PHP]
    I don't think that most men would think of giving a woman an orgasm while she sleep because they would feel like it was raping his wife. So I think a man may welcome a woman sexual touch to wake him up but there seems to be a natural inhibition to do that to a women I never thought of that. I do it to my SO on occasion but I never even had the thought that he would try to give me an orgasm to wake me up it probably never crossed his mind either[
    /PHP]. Seems almost an unspoken assumption or one that does not need to be discussed. Some things go without saying.
    I don't think there should be a double standard here. No one, not a man or a woman, should ever violate anothers body, whether it be for their mate or strictly for their own personal satisfaction, while that person is sleeping, unconscious, not aware. It is very simple. If you engage in sex without someone's consent, then it is rape. And a sleeping person cannot give their consent.
    Cat1864's Avatar
    Cat1864 Posts: 8,007, Reputation: 3687
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    #33

    Sep 23, 2010, 08:26 AM
    I am going to say that there is a very big difference between waking your partner up by initiating (not performing) sex to enjoy following through together or stopping it and trying to get your partner off without waking him/her.

    It is something that couples should discuss BEFORE either partner tries anything.

    In this case, IF the op had thought about his wants and desires instead of acting on them, he would have realized that this is something SHE never would have consented to at any point.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #34

    Sep 23, 2010, 01:48 PM

    There is a big difference between sleeping and being blacked out.
    A couple of months ago before we broke up she had a few blackouts one night. I picked her up, put her in bed and laid with her there for hours to make sure she was OK. After a few hours I decided to try and give her an orgasm while she was sleeping, the outcome was not what I intended nor expected.
    That's the crux of your problem, and her leaving was a consequence of your UNINTENDED ACTIONS and given the severity of her actions (moving away from you), and the time involved, between the event, and her moving (a few months), I highly suggest you leave her alone, to deal with her feelings, because obviously your way didn't work.

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