[excon]

Hello:

In protest of what it calls a religion "of the devil," a nondenominational church in Gainesville, Florida, plans to host an "International Burn a Quran Day" on the ninth anniversary of the September 11, 2001, attacks.

The Dove World Outreach Center says it is hosting the event to remember 9/11 victims and take a stand against Islam. With promotions on its website and Facebook page, it invites Christians to burn the Muslim holy book at the church from 6 p.m. to 9 p.m.

"We believe that Islam is of the devil, that it's causing billions of people to go to hell, it is a deceptive religion, it is a violent religion and that is proven many, many times," Pastor Terry Jones said.

Certainly, this stuff acts as a recruitment tool for Al Quaida, and endangers our troops fighting alongside our Muslim allies. YOU, of course, said that it was a "myth". Apparently, General Patraus doesn't think so. He would know, wouldn't he?

But, what I REALLY want to know, though, is HOW you could possibly think that the stuff going on over here, like burn the Koran Day, DOESN'T effect how the Muslim world views us??

excon

PS> This is a volatile issue. If you get personal, I'll close the damn thing myself.

[tomder55]

I believe you will find no one here that endorses this .

But what happened to the argument presented before that it's a rights issue and not one of perception and 'sensitivity' ?

[excon]

But what happened to the argument presented before that it's a rights issue and not one of perception and 'sensitivity' ?

Hello again, tom:

Nothing has changed. It's still a rights issue. I'd NEVER stop their book burning. The WONDERMENT has just switched sides... You wondered whether it was a good idea to offend the 9/11 family's. Me, and General Petraus, wonder if it's a good idea to offend the entire Muslim world.

excon

[tomder55]

I'm unclear about your position. You are saying it's a bad idea to offend the entire Muslim world but it's OK to offend the 9-11 families and the 70% of New Yorkers who oppose the mosque placement . Why are the sensitivities of the Muslim world a greater concern ?

Me... I'm consistent . In both cases I say there is a right to do it;and in both cases I oppose it and would take every legal means necessary to prevent it.

[excon]

I'm unclear about your position. You are saying it's a bad idea to offend the entire Muslim world but it's ok to offend the 9-11 families and the 70% of New Yorkers who oppose the mosque placement . Why are the sensitivities of the Muslim world a greater concern ?

Hello tom:

(1) Because we are trying to win the hearts and minds of the Afghans, Iraqis, and others, so our boys can come home. (2) Because we want to prevent Al Quaida from getting BIGGER and STRONGER. If this stuff DOES what General Petraus and I say it does, then (3) we should STOP shooting ourselves in the foot. (4) Because, even our Muslim allies carry guns in very proximity to our own soldiers. (5) Because we are not at war with the 9/11 families and (6) the mosque did NOT attack their religion. (7) Because we want to prevent any more home grown terrorists.

You may see a tit for tat, but it ain't. It's not even close.

excon

[talaniman]

Only in America do people have a right to their dumb, misguided, prejudiced ideas.

Greatly surprised that people make building a community center two blocks away and 9 years later, issue about Islam, and not get the survivors the grief counseling they really need back then. Election year BS to me, but the burning of the Qur'an is just prejudiced, in my opinion, and hate based, and ignorant.

The worst of the American way, you can blame your feelings on anything whether its right, or wrong. Doesn't seem to make a difference. I got one word for it all MISGUIDED FEAR! (okay TWO words).

[tomder55]

I don't see it as tit for tat at all. I think both are wrong. Jihadistan has been at war against us for some time now . Evidently winning hearts and minds is a one way street . I have seen images of the American flag burning by mobs in the ummah for as long as I can remember.

This clown in Fla should be stopped and so should the placement of the mosque . Not because of constitutional rights, but because it's the right thing to do.

[Athos]

I believe you will find no one here that endorses this .

But what happened to the argument presented before that it's a rights issue and not one of perception and 'sensitivity' ?

Bingo!

[excon]

Evidently winning hearts and minds is a one way street .

Hello again, tom:

YES, it IS a one way street. This is the United States of America. We are EXCEPTIONAL. We don't REACT to the world. We LEAD the world.

You ARE consistent, though. Since we've been discussing this stuff, you have maintained that we didn't have to DO the right thing, because THEY don't. When we discussed torture, you told me how UNCIVILIZED they are towards us. When we discussed trials for them, you told me about how Daniel Pearl was beheaded without a trial.

Now, when our task IS to win the hearts and minds of the Muslim world, you tell me about how they burn our flag. Smoothy thinks there should be NO mosques here until there's a Christian church in Saudi Arabia. In a nutshell, you guys want us to act like them. You have since the beginning.

Well, we're NOT them. I've argued consistently, that we should ACT like Americans, not like our enemy's. This discussion is more of the same.

The question I proposed in my OP remains unanswered. Do you believe that the stuff we're doing, ala the mosque, and the book burning, pisses off the Muslims? Or do you just not care if it does? I'll bet it's the latter, and you don't want to admit it.

excon

[speechlesstx]

But, what I REALLY want to know, though, is HOW you could possibly think that the stuff going on over here, like burn the Koran Day, DOESN'T effect how the Muslim world views us??

Apparently they're rioting in the streets over this according to what I heard on the radio just now. So if that's true, and judging by your position on this it probably is, wouldn't that throw a kink into the image of Islam as a peaceful, tolerant religion?

By the way, I also object to this stupid plan of the oxymoronic, or just plain moronic, Dove World Outreach Center. But it's a free country, right?

[tomder55]

It cracks me up . Snoozeweek plants false stories about us flushing Korans down the toilet and the Ummah goes nuts. They went nuts when a cartoonist drew unflattering cartoons of Mohammed .
We should just ignore indignities against us because we are better people ? I don't get it .

There is still an inconsistency here. In once case (so long as our ox is being gored ) it is an absolute right... apparently because we are better people. But in the other case we must walk on egg shells lest we offend.

I oppose the burning of the Koran exactly because it is unAmerican.That is the exceptionalism you speak of .
I couldn't care less about their reaction .

[excon]

So if that's true, and judging by your position on this it probably is, wouldn't that throw a kink into the image of Islam as a peaceful, tolerant religion?

Hello Steve:

You've got me mixed up somebody else. I don't think Islam is a peaceful tolerant religion. I don't think ANY religion is. Which gives me pause... Tom doesn't want to cut 'em any slack because they burn our FLAG. I wonder how pissed off he (and you) would be if they burned bibles??

Your man, George W. Bush correctly said that we are NOT at war with Islam. We'd LIKE the Muslim world to believe it. But, I'm not even sure it's true. If I'M not sure, don't you think a few Muslims might not be either?

excon

[tomder55]

The US military burned Bibles in Afghanistan. That must've been a hearts and minds thing too.
Military burns unsolicited Bibles sent to Afghanistan - CNN.com

[speechlesstx]

Exactly right, tom. I'd even go further and say that the left not only expects us to walk on eggshells lest we offend, conservatives should welcome the insults and labels thrown our way.

When called a racist, I should respond, "thank you sir! May I have another?" When called "teabagger" I should respond, "thank you sir! May I have another?" Etc, etc.

This is one of three discussions on this I've come across today, and none mentioned this part:

The warnings followed an angry protest on Monday by several hundred people in the Afghan capital, Kabul, who chanted "Death to America" as they denounced the planned burning event by the Gainesville, Florida-based Dove World Outreach Center church.

Perhaps I just answered my own question, I think the left just may agree with the "death to America" sentiment.

[excon]

There is still an inconsistency here.

Hello again, tom:

There is no inconsistency here. People don't have a right NOT to be offended. When SOME people utilize their Constitutional rights, it offends SOME people. When others utilize THEIR Constitutional rights, a different group is offended. Nobody is saying these people DON'T have rights.

However, if it was ME (and it IS), I'd worry LESS about offending the 9/11 family's than I would about offending a BILLION and a HALF Muslims...

excon

[speechlesstx]

Hello Steve:

You've got me mixed up somebody else. I don't think Islam is a peaceful tolerant religion. I don't think ANY religion is. Which gives me pause....... Tom doesn't want to cut 'em any slack because they burn our FLAG. I wonder how pissed off he (and you) would be if they burned bibles???

Your man, George W. Bush correctly said that we are NOT at war with Islam. We'd LIKE the Muslim world to believe it. But, I'm not even sure it's true. If I'M not sure, don't you think a few Muslims might not be either?

I'm not mixing anything up, you thought it was going to cause problems and it did. Your position and the report I heard are in agreement.

I'll tell you what's mixed up though. It's that Christians and conservatives have been very vocal and very consistent about condemning the idiots and radicals among us like this church. We've been very consistent in condemning racism and hatred. The left has been very consistent in not only ignoring that fact but continuing to fuel the fire in labeling us as just the opposite.

As long as the left continues their intentional war on conservatives by portraying us ignorant, intolerant "racists" who are "at war with Islam" then yeah, I can see how Muslims would question whether we are at war with Islam. Me saying I'm not isn't enough, because no matter how many times I say it, someone keeps telling them otherwise and that pi$$es me off.

[smoothy]

I wonder how many people that Supported Burning the American Flag as an expression of freadom of speech or actually DID burn a flag themselves are now trying to agrue burning a book ( and the Koran is nothing but a book ) is NOT a protected form of freedom of speech?

Not that I run around burning book, or flags... but I believe it is the right of every American to burn a Koran if they so wish as long as they aren't setting anything else on fire in the process.

Heaven knows the loons in the middle east with their panties in a knot thought it was mighty funny to be burning American flags if they weren't burning the actual Corpses of American soldiers.

Compare that with burning a book? Sorry... book does not equal human bodies. Book does not equal national flag.

And claiming it will recruit other Islamic idiots is a lame excuse... The radical Muslim Imams who can't get pretty women themselves do that if a koran gets burned or not.

[Catsmine]

YES, it IS a one way street. This is the United States of America. We are EXCEPTIONAL. We don't REACT to the world. We LEAD the world.

Where did you read that, Ex? Even your man Barack Griswold Obama doesn't believe in American exceptionalism, remember?

What do we lead the world in anymore? Lawyers? Psychobabble? Eco-freaks? Stupefying our children? When you and I were kids America out-produced, outfought, and out-thought the rest of the planet combined. Why did you soft-headed wrong-hearted Liberals fritter it away anyway?

[excon]

What do we lead the world in anymore? Why did you soft-headed wrong-hearted Liberals fritter it away anyway?

Hello again, Cats:

I was speaking specifically about human rights... You're correct, though. We frittered our leadership position away when we became torturers.. But, it wasn't liberals who did that. Nope. It surely wasn't.

excon

[Fr_Chuck]

I hate to see any book burnt, I own a koran, and have read and studied it ( some) , I even hate to burn old worn out books, and even those that were flood damaged, ( but know some have to be)

I think this first is silly that this made any national attention and I blame the media for making this anything but a joke. Guys this is a church of what 20 to 40 people maybe ?

There is a black church in Atlanta of 100's calling white people the Devil and Satan, and they don't even get a mention.
The church where Obama belonged, talks bad about the US. no one cares, it does not make the news.

The "concerned black clergy" of Atlanta, make fools of themselves over arrested people, and political issues they know little about, and it never makes the news.

A little church with less people than I even preach too, wants to burn a book, and it makes national news.

Heck I would go burn a copy of Beethovens complete works, If I could get national attention, I may fill my pews with music haters perhaps.

The news camera need to go away, and no one show up but his few followers.

Now with that said, I will also say he has the legal right to express his views, and that includes him burning the book. It is a really pointless action, since his preaching his message of hate is really the same message.