[foreverHis]

A christiadaphian wants to know the truth about being born again

[Fr_Chuck]

Have they accepted Christ as their personal Savior ?
Have they been baptized

[marma]

Yes, not born again but reliving a beautiful life young and happy, and enjoy every second of it, as a reward when you have done great things in the real life and helped others and had patience no matter how bad the situation was, and most importantly believe in god , who is always there , the creator, the MAJESTIC,the MERCIFUL ,the PROVIDER,,

;)

[dwashbur]

2 Corinthians 5:17 explains it about as well as anything: trusting in Jesus as savior makes you a new creation, born anew as someone acceptable in God's sight because Jesus has paid the penalty for their sin.

[classyT]

2 Corinthians 5:17 explains it about as well as anything: trusting in Jesus as savior makes you a new creation, born anew as someone acceptable in God's sight because Jesus has paid the penalty for their sin.

The perfect answer as usual! :)

[marma]

Jesus is the messenger of god , and we believe in both :)

[HeadStrongBoy]

classyT:

Quoting dwashbur:
2 Corinthians 5:17 explains it about as well as anything: trusting in Jesus as savior makes you a new creation, born anew as someone acceptable in God's sight because Jesus has paid the penalty for their sin. The perfect answer as usual!

Excuse me for disagreeing. But perfect ? I think not. Particularly about something as important as the new birth (aka salvation). I'm afraid I'll need to remind you that the Biblical rule for coming to conclusions about any doctrine is that we must compare scripture with scripture.

Ezekiel 11:19, Ezekiel 18:31, and Ezekiel 36:26 all refer to the new birth. Particularly Ezekiel 36:26 makes it unequivocally clear that Jehovah God is the one who gives the saved person a new heart, spirit, or soul. The way dwashbur has stated it, it sounds as if our trusting in Jesus makes us a new creation.

Clearly there is some discrepancy between dwashbur's salvation plan and the one that Jehovah performs in Ezekiel 36:26. Certainly dwashbur's cannot be said to be perfect.

[classyT]

Headstrong,

Dumpling doodle, Let's compare scripture with scripture! Shall we? After we believe what Jesus DID for us on the cross we are sealed with the Holy spirit of promise. That is found in ephesians. That makes us born again with a New Spirit.

Yes, it is the Lord who does all the work, we just accept it by faith. There is no discrepancy and it fits perfectly with Ezekiel.

What I am trying to figure out is why you head straight to the OT to find out about salvation and being born again. No ONE was born again in the OT. It is all part of the New Covenant. If you want to know how to be born again, hit up the NT... and those verses in the OT make sense and fit perfectly. Yes I said PERFECTLY. :)

[HeadStrongBoy]

ClassyT

Headstrong, Dumpling doodle

I just love your expletive phrase, "dumpling doodle.". And I feel confident enough so that I don't need to have the last word in this discussion. I believe I've learned at least that much by participating at this site.

[dwashbur]

classyT:


Excuse me for disagreeing. But perfect ? I think not. Particularly about something as important as the new birth (aka salvation). I'm afraid I'll need to remind you that the Biblical rule for coming to conclusions about any doctrine is that we must compare scripture with scripture.

Ezekiel 11:19, Ezekiel 18:31, and Ezekiel 36:26 all refer to the new birth. Particularly Ezekiel 36:26 makes it unequivocally clear that Jehovah God is the one who gives the saved person a new heart, spirit, or soul. The way dwashbur has stated it, it sounds as if our trusting in Jesus makes us a new creation.

Clearly there is some discrepancy between dwashbur's salvation plan and the one that Jehovah performs in Ezekiel 36:26. Certainly dwashbur's cannot be said to be perfect.

All three of those passages are addressing Israel while they were in exile. The new birth as described in the New Testament hadn't been revealed yet, and wouldn't be until Jesus came. Ezek 36:26 is just the beginning. Why don't you read on to verse 28: "You will live in the land I gave your forefathers"? Are you saying that everybody who experiences the "new birth" will live in Palestine? As I've told you many times, context is everything.

Throughout Ezekiel, things like putting a new heart into Israel (the nation, not individuals) and all that is contingent on them getting rid of their idols, turning their hearts to the LORD, and all the rest. Again, context is everything. If the context doesn't fit your theology, it's not the context that's wrong.

Oh yeah, I laughed out loud when I saw "dumping doodle." I'm not sure what it actually means, but I think you can take it as something good because I know ClassyT.

[HeadStrongBoy]

dwashbur

Are you saying that everybody who experiences the "new birth" will live in Palestine? As I've told you many times, context is everything.

Actually, yes. If we take Palestine (the promised land) to be a metaphor for the new heavens and the new earth spoken of in the New Testament. As I've told you, I don't look at context in the same way you do necessarily (grammatically and historically only).

The new birth as described in the New Testament hadn't been revealed yet, and wouldn't be until Jesus came.

You are correct that the New Testament (the completion of the Bible) had not been written yet at that time. However the new birth itself was already being granted to various individuals here and there in Old Testament times. Therefore, de facto, it did exist. Remember there is only ONE version of salvation. Not two different ones.


And, I may have mentioned this before, but the reason for comparing scriptures, besides just getting the context, is to determine theological harmony.

[dwashbur]

dwashbur
Actually, yes. If we take Palestine (the promised land) to be a metaphor for the new heavens and the new earth spoken of in the New Testament. As I've told you, I don't look at context in the same way you do necessarily (grammatically and historically only).

There's no compelling reason to take it as a metaphor for anything. Ezekiel was one of the exiles and his visions related to the restoration of the Jews to their land after the Babylonian exile. You can look at it any way you like, but that doesn't make the method legitimate.

You are correct that the New Testament (the completion of the Bible) had not been written yet at that time. However the new birth itself was already being granted to various individuals here and there in Old Testament times. Therefore, de facto, it did exist. Remember there is only ONE version of salvation. Not two different ones.

We've been over this before. There's no way Ezekiel could have been talking about the new birth as described in the New Testament because nobody knew about it. The law and the sacrificial system were foreshadowings, but that's all they had. Anything you want to claim is a reference to New Testament concepts is nothing more than reading into the text what's not there. Again, you're free to do so, but it's still wrong.

And, I may have mentioned this before, but the reason for comparing scriptures, besides just getting the context, is to determine theological harmony.

There's theological harmony and then there's using a shoehorn to make the Scriptures fit your own notions. Your approach definitely falls into the latter category.

[HeadStrongBoy]

dwashbur said: There's no compelling reason to take it as a metaphor for anything.

There may be no compelling reason for you, but there is for me. Isaiah chapter 32 points to the fact that Israel, Judah, and Jerusalem are metaphors (spiritual symbols) for the Kingdom of Heaven. For example phrases like everlasting covenant(verse40) typify heaven. Certainly this Earth will not last forever. Also verse 41. "I will plant them in this land assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul." Is God here speaking only of the physical land of Palestine ? To read it that way is to miss much spiritual meaning. Your prerogative, of course.

There's no way Ezekiel could have been talking about the new birth as described in the New Testament because nobody knew about it.

It doesn't matter that very few knew about it. (I know you said nobody.) The point is that God is giving the words to Ezekiel. And now (at that time) Ezekiel knew about it, and everyone who reads the words of Ezekiel (then and now) also knows about it. We've been over this before. There is only ONE IDENTICAL METHOD OF SALVATION IN BOTH THE OLD AND THE NEW TESTAMENTS. How many different ways do I need to say it ?

[freeman4]

I can give you an answer but it want set well with many.


Have you had someone ask if you were “Born Again”? This seems to be a standard question from one who considers themselves to be Christian. The answer to that question should be “no” I am not born again, but I am in the process of being born again at a future time. Let me explain. Before an individual can begin to understand Gods truth and what He stands for, he or she must first know about Him and His Son, Jesus Christ. When I say one must hear about Jesus Christ, they must understand what He is all about and that He was the first to be born again. He is the first of the “First Fruits”. All who are alive now are still physical mortal beings, flesh and blood, still capable of dying of a physical death. Before the born again process can take place one must accept Jesus Christ as their redeemer, their personal Savior.

Once this has been accomplished and one accepts Jesus as their Redeemer, they are then a potential “Son of God”. While this is being accomplished an individual then begins to understand, they begin to comprehend in their mind what God is all about. While this is occurring one is in the process of having a new birth in the future, being born again, not yet fully born in a Spiritual form for they are still physical in nature. This is only the preparation stage of being born in the Spirit or being born again. When God is calling an individual they are in the process of being convicted by the Spirit of God. Then the Holy Spirit will begin working in the mind and is the first step in becoming born again in a future time when they will become Spirit beings. The complete birth process or being “born again” won’t occur until our Lord and Savior returns. Then and only then are we changed to spirit, being born again of a Spirit Essence. Being human and of the flesh you are then a potential son of God, not yet born in the God family until He returns. You are still human in nature, not spirit.

Notice in 1st Corinthians ch 15: verse 23; “but every man in his own order, (everyone that has been called by God and who has become His potential son, will become God’s Son in the order and the time God chooses for them) Christ the first fruits: (Jesus Christ was the first one “Born Again of the Spirit” And this occurred at the resurrection. He was the first of the First Fruits.) Only the one’s who belong to Jesus Christ will be born again at His Coming and not before. That includes those who are in the grave.

As stated before, before an individual can become a Christian they must first hear and understand why our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for us. As an individual continues to study and hear more about the Gospel (good news) of God, then they are in the process of being called or converted by God. After one has made A decision to confess Christ with their own mouth and then be baptized, then and only then are they on their way of being born as a Spirit being in the future. But until that time, that individual is still a physical being. Not yet spirit. Not yet born again, but only a potential son of God in the physical, only becoming a Spirit Son of God when Jesus Christ returns.

“THE PHYSICAL & SPIRITUAL STRUCTURE”

(Please read 1 Corinthians Ch 15:)

When God created man and woman, He had a plan already in place for them. That plan included a Family structure, both physical and Spiritual. Scripture tells us that Adam knew Eve and Eve bore Children. God made it possible for when man and woman have a relationship that the man will impregnate a woman with his seed. As this occurs and if all is as it should be inside the womb, a human being will be conceived inside the womb and that being will start to grow. The being inside the womb must be nourished and fed by the mother by what she eats and is then given to the baby being formed in the womb, in turn the baby will grow for nine months and then he or she will be born to a physical life.

For an individual to be born is not an instant process. The mother for the next nine months has to make sure that the right nourishment is given to this child through the life support in which she provides through her own body. After a time process of nine months the child will then be born and it will be born in a physical state. All the time this child is being protected inside the womb of its mother.

Now, let us look at a Christian’s life and how it to is developed. When a person begins to hear the Word of God and to hear about God’s Son, Jesus Christ, that individual is in the process of having a spiritual relationship, just as a physical man and woman have a physical relationship. As an individual listens and begins to learn from God’s word, he or she is in the process of the future birth with God’s Holy Spirit. Now when one is baptized, they at that time are impregnated with God’s Holy Spirit and, just as a baby in it mothers womb, they to have to go through a time process in the spiritual womb of God. They have to, just as the baby in the womb, are be nourished with the right food (spiritual in nature). So as a baby in the physical womb has a time to be born, so does a Christian in the spiritual womb have a time process before they are “BORN AGAIN”. That born again birth will not occur until Jesus Christ returns and all who are alive and are in the embryo stage will at that time be changed from a PHYSICAL BEING to a SPIRITUAL BEING, they will be, BORN AGAIN. Not of a physical state but of a spiritual nature.

Those individuals whom have died and have God’s Holy Spirit will be resurrected at the time of Jesus Christ return and they to will meet Him in the air and will be born of a SPIRITUAL nature with a new body at the same time of those who are alive.

Many have misunderstood the born again process. Hopefully this will help you to understand what it is all about. So may we all learn and grow in the womb of God, the Church and get ready for our birth in JESUS CHRIST as a new creature.


Hopefully this may help.