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Tuscany · Dec 12, 2006, 11:04 AM

My mom always says...

"For some women any guy is better then no guy at all."

After reading some of the posts in the relationship section I thought that this might be a good discussion starter.

What does everyone think? Is my mom right?:cool:

valinors_sorrow · Dec 12, 2006, 11:13 AM

I would take it one step further and suggest that it applies to all kinds of relationships, not just lovers. And I believe it is how some of us more codepedendent types trained ourselves into tolerating what amounted to abuse, frankly. It was a really exhilierating, enlightening day when I realised for me that it had always worked that all good relationships sustain and improve me and all bad relationships drag on me and some caused outright damage... ergo, no relationship is better than a bad one! I saw that being alone is not difficult, being lonely with lots of "non-friend" friends is-- if that's not too zen! LOL My whole way of relating to others suddenly shifted that day and lots of things changed after that-- especially what kinds of people I attracted to me. Big huge different there, wow! I may be picky about my friends more than ever now, but who I call friend really is. I prefer it that way but each to their own too.

Good topic for discussion and one really worth examining closely, thanks!

NeedKarma · Dec 12, 2006, 11:13 AM

Isn't that what they call "settling"? Y'know the women who either don't want to be alone, or don't want to feel like they're "left on the shelf" or who's self-worth is defined by getting married.

SINGLE4 · Dec 12, 2006, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Isn't that what they call "settling"? Y'know the women who either don't want to be alone, or don't want to feel like they're "left on the shelf" or who's self-worth is defined by getting married.

I worked for an attorney (who is a senior partner) and he told me that everyone settles. I took a pole in the office and everyone but one person said that they settled.

I sure hope this isn't true!!

NeedKarma · Dec 12, 2006, 11:23 AM

My wife does a lot of family law and she would get the joke there - I believe he was referring to divorces. I don't believe that many people would admit :) to settling about picking their marriages mates.

valinors_sorrow · Dec 12, 2006, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by SINGLE4

I worked for an attorney (who is a senior partner) and he told me that everyone settles. I took a pole in the office and everyone but one person said that they settled.

I sure hope this isn't true!!!!

LOL No disrespect intended but that may have more to do with what sort of people generally work at a law firm. I mean they may be predisposed to the settling method since they pursued a career based on it -- scientifically speaking, that would be considered a skewed database, I think? I was told I should become an attorney and thought "no thanks, not my thang!"

But I can tell you I did the opposite of settle, I selected someone who I thought would meet my reasonable* expectations (* = based on a lot of painful experience and careful observation of how the world works) and in the long run, I can tell you honestly that he exceeded them. And I believe if you asked, he would ditto those sentiments. I would think most people say that love does that selecting in a more ambiguous way, but its still a selection. And the sort of settling mentioned in the OP is pretty subconscious for many of the people who practice that. When it becomes conscious, then its likely to become unacceptable just as it did for me.

phillysteakandcheese · Dec 12, 2006, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Tuscany

My mom always says...
"For some women any guy is better then no guy at all."

The weasal word there is some ... Yes, some women should be thankful. A female "black widow" serial killer type should probably be thankful she was able to find someone to stay with her. I would say that most women don't fall into that category though... :)

There are lots of decent guys. There are lots of good guys. There are many great guys. And there are a fair number of awesome guys still available.

Not everyone will get an "awesome" guy, but everyone deserves a "decent" one.

Tuscany · Dec 12, 2006, 12:34 PM

I have a friend who stayed with her cheating boyfriend for more then 10 years... over that time he slept with more then 30 women... and bragged about it. It used to break my heart. My mom used that statement to help me understand why she would stay.

NeedKarma · Dec 12, 2006, 12:40 PM

In that situation, if there are no children involved, then that particular woman has personal issues if she did not leave after the second time he cheated. I thought your quote initially referred to the men that women decide to marry.

BIM · Dec 12, 2006, 12:47 PM

No, I cannot agree with your mother (no disrespect intended) but it is not kosher in my book to just take 'any' guy. I would rather be alone than just be with someone.

So no, any guy is not better than no guy. :rolleyes:

ordinaryguy · Dec 12, 2006, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by BIM

No, I cannot agree with your mother (no disrespect intended) but it is not kosher in my book to just take 'any' guy. I would rather be alone than just be with someone.

So no, any guy is not better than no guy. :rolleyes:

I think you misunderstood what her mother meant. I think she meant it as an explanation of why some women are willing to stay in really bad relationships--they're afraid of being alone. I might add that it applies equally well to men. Anybody who is so insecure that they're afraid to be alone is almost certain to get into bad relationships with equally insecure people, persist in them for way too long, and when they finally do come apart, get right back into another one. Being a whole healthy person even (especially) when alone is the only firm foundation for a healthy relationship. Mama knows!

BIM · Dec 12, 2006, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by ordinaryguy

I think you misunderstood what her mother meant. I think she meant it ......

I can see what you are saying also... funny how people interpret things differently. :)

Allheart · Dec 12, 2006, 03:14 PM

I think Mom is right about some women thinking that way... and men too. I think the scales are balanced. I never thought about the fact that they hung in there just to have someone. But I actually have seen men just as much as women have to endure some serious and incredible things. It would just make me sad for them.

Me? No... No... and No... Before I was married, I lived on my own for 5 years... had the time of my life... having fun... and having many weekends, with just me, myself and I. And oddly enough, we all got along :). It was a refreshing time. I really got to know who I was. I just really enjoyed the peace of home.

I wonder if the fact the my Mother and Father were divorced and that I saw Mom having to get up and go to work and pay bills and keep a roof over her head, without having the luxury of having someone to fall back on, taught me that I need to rely on myself for the same things and it was okay, it was my "normal". Hmmm never thought about that. Gosh, thinking about that makes me very grateful for that lesson.

wizzkid89 · Dec 12, 2006, 03:57 PM

I saw that being alone is not difficult, being lonely with lots of "non-friend" friends is-- if that's not too zen!

I know exactly what that means.

Honestly, I don't have a problem being alone, I actually rather enjoy it. Being alone allows you to really look deep down and contemplate on who you are and what you are. It allows you to reach into the core of yourself and take a good look at what everyone else can see. With a doubt, it is needed by everyone. I haven't picked a partner as I am not married, but when it comes to girlfriend's, I am not picky but I am not actively looking. I am just going about life, doing my own thing, and when someone strikes me and I say I would like to get to know her, than I go talk to her and try an develop a relationship.

But there are always two different tales to every story, and my mom is/was someone who stuck too long in a relationship. Abuse, cheating, etc. And it's not that they are bad people, just they can't handle being alone. Its like having a partner is the only way the feel self-satisfaction, they need someone else's approval in order to have their own. It's sad, but as is life, and you just have to roll with punches...

valinors_sorrow · Dec 12, 2006, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by Tuscany

I have a friend who stayed with her cheating boyfriend for more then 10 years...over that time he slept with more then 30 women...and bragged about it. It used to break my heart. My mom used that statement to help me understand why she would stay.

In a very simplistic way, I think your mom explained it well to you. But how women (and men too) stay in abusive relationships, be they physically or mentally abusive, is a fairly complex arrangement. This is where the naturally given deep instinct to survive can work like a two edged sword. It is what is at the root of the famous Stockholm syndrome. It is also how psychologically trapped the addict becomes on top of any physical addiction. It also can explain how many good people participated in Nazi sponsored actions they knew to be outright wrong. It's a more slippery slope than most people who have never been so challenged can imagine. What would your terror-battered and fear-consumed mind tell you to do when faced with such circumstances -- well, you can't really answer correctly until your mind is actually terror-battered and fear-consumed, can you?

talaniman · Dec 12, 2006, 05:45 PM

If you can't be with the one you love, Love the one your with.(Love song from the 70's)

valinors_sorrow · Dec 12, 2006, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

If you can't be with the one you love, Love the one your with.(Love song from the 70's)

Aaaaaaaaaaaah, those glory days of free love! :p (sticks a flower behind my ear and grins at Tal)

wizzkid89 · Dec 12, 2006, 10:38 PM

It's all about the new stuff grandpa and grandma moses(looking at tal and val)...

magprob · Dec 12, 2006, 11:32 PM

Being a person that prefurs my own company over others, I would assume that any person that has to have someone no matter how abusive or wrong they may be probably does not have a very good relationship with themselves and are quite bored with themselves when they are all alone and just need someone, anyone, to feed off and suck their energy to fulfill their own emptyness, sort of like a vampire but not for blood but for energy but it could be for blood like my first wife almost sucked me dry to the point of my brain drying out like an old walnut man.

WOW! A one hundred and six word sentence. See, I told you she sucked my brain dry! Damn vampires anyway! :mad:

Tuscany · Dec 13, 2006, 05:14 AM

Ordinary Guy-
I think your view on my mom's saying is right on. And I totally agree with everyone that it could go either way for men or women.
The thing that I find amazing with abusive relationships (I was in one while in college) is how quickly the abused lose themselves esteem and themselves worth. I swear it took my ex 2 times of telling me that I was a horrible person and I would be alone forever if I ever left him and I started to believe it. I think that relationship was the turning point for me. When I left him I was alone for 4 years. Living in my own apartment, helping my mom, going out, seeing friends. Those years gave me a chance to get "healthy" again. I started loving myself again... and then I knew I could finally love someone else.