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    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #1

    Jun 18, 2010, 07:13 AM
    GOP congressman apologizes to BP for '$20 billion shakedown'
    GOP congressman apologizes to BP for '$20 billion shakedown' | Raw Story

    During a hearing of the House Energy and Commerce Committee on Thursday, Rep. Joe Barton (R-TX) called the $20 billion escrow fund that BP has promised to establish a "shakedown" and apologized to BP Tony Hayward.
    It gets worse:
    Following his statement earlier Thursday that the $20 billion fund amounted to a "shakedown" of BP, Barton found himself under attack not only from Vice-President Joe Biden and other Democrats, but from other Republicans as well. A Florida Republican has called for Barton to step down as the ranking member of the Energy and Commerce Committee.
    Barton = Former Energy and Commerce Committee
    Oil + Gas Industry = Donations to Barton of nearly $1.5 million
    Barton speaks out against fines for BP ruining American jobs and devastating the environment...

    Well done looking out for lining your pockets!
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #2

    Jun 18, 2010, 07:28 AM

    Hello NK:

    Yup. The Republicans are BOUGHT and PAID for by corporate America. No more evidence is needed than Joe Bartons' sad commentary.. He apologized TO BP for what WE'RE doing to THEM. Can you believe that??

    You KNOW, of course, he wants the TAXPAYER to bail BP out. I thought the wingers were against bailouts, and corporate welfare - except when they're not... Bwa, ha ha ha ha.

    excon
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #3

    Jun 18, 2010, 07:30 AM
    You guys need to think some serious reform concerning "donations". Your politicians (esp the repubs) no longer represent their constituency but are in it for the gravy train. It must be frustrating for you guys.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #4

    Jun 18, 2010, 07:41 AM

    Yeah it is bad form and bad pr.;politically tone deaf. I think Bob Ethridge should give him a beat-down.

    But he's essentially correct. It is a shakedown ;typical Chi-town politics . You think not ? All of this was “negotiated” while Attorney General Eric Holder, who has already threatened BP with criminal prosecution, sat in the corner watching . Jamie Gorelick was sitting at the negotiation table too (supposedly representing BP... HAAAA! ) . I wonder what her role was .

    And he is also right that just like TARP . It will be used as a slush fund.Does anyone have an accounting of where all the bucket-list stimulus funding went ? Come on VP Biden give us the details !

    I wonder if the President plans to make BP pay for the hardship he has caused by his moratorium on drilling ?
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #5

    Jun 18, 2010, 07:42 AM

    I guess neither of you noticed that the GOP leadership was quick to criticize Barton's comment. Dems are just as beholden to corporate interests - not to mention unions - so let's stop pretending this is mostly a GOP problem.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #6

    Jun 18, 2010, 07:46 AM

    I thought the wingers were against bailouts, and corporate welfare
    And I thought you were for due process and contract law.
    tomder55's Avatar
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    #7

    Jun 18, 2010, 07:47 AM

    Dems are just as beholden to corporate interests
    Obama was a big benefactor of BP money .
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #8

    Jun 18, 2010, 07:53 AM

    Here is BP's negotiator at the shakedown..

    After leaving the Justice Department, Gorelick served for six years as vice chairwoman of Fannie Mae and got caught up in the mortgage agency’s accounting controversy. In 2005, two years after Gorelick left Fannie Mae, a federal investigation into the public-private mortgage company found that accountants had falsified signatures to erase $9 billion in losses from the books. Eliminating those losses resulted in Gorelick and four other Fannie Mae executives taking away six- and seven-figure bonuses in 1998.

    The federal investigation found that Gorelick was paid more than $25 million during her time at Fannie, and the huge compensation received by Fannie Mae executives later became a major issue in Congress.
    Jamie Gorelick's new challenge: Backing BP - Abby Phillip - POLITICO.com
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #9

    Jun 18, 2010, 07:54 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    I guess neither of you noticed that the GOP leadership was quick to criticize Barton's comment.
    Hello again, Steve:

    Oh, I noticed, but the cat's out of the bag. The majority of the GOP AGREE with Barton, as tom so eloquently explained above. The only reason he HAD to apologize is because the leadership doesn't want the public to know what they REALLY think.

    But, in the main, I don't disagree with you about the Democrats. They're bought and paid for too... But, if I were to guess which party is MORE in the pockets of big business, I'd have to say the Republicans...

    Uhhhh... And, it's going to get WORSE - not BETTER, since Citizens United.

    excon
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    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #10

    Jun 18, 2010, 07:59 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    And I thought you were for due process and contract law.
    Hello again, tom:

    I am... But, if a settlement can be reached BEFORE lawsuits are filed, I'm for that too.

    Again, what we we have here is a failure to communicate. What I call a settlement, you call a shakedown. What I call end of life counseling, you call a death panel. What I call the legislative process, you call ramming down throats...

    One of us is speaking reality. The other is fudging.

    excon
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #11

    Jun 18, 2010, 08:19 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon View Post
    But, in the main, I don't disagree with you about the Democrats. They're bought and paid for too... But, if I were to guess which party is MORE in the pockets of big business, I'd have to say the Republicans...
    I'd have to say it goes in cycles. Right now they're betting on the GOP, in the 2008 cycle they were betting on Dems. But of the top 10 'heavy hitters,' six are unions, one is Democratic PAC, one is the former Association of Trial Lawyers, and another is Goldman Sachs, which all heavily favor Dems.

    AT&T, the biggest contributor, and the National Assn of Realtors, split theirs fairly evenly. That means 8 of the top 10 donors heavily favor Democrats.
    Uhhhh... And, it's going to get WORSE - not BETTER, since Citizens United.
    If you ask me it's worse now that we have a president in permanent campaign mode trying to exploit the very crisis he's been so impotent on.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #12

    Jun 18, 2010, 08:23 AM

    You guys are right about one thing . Any corporation that thinks they are buying anything when they give money to a politician is delusional. BP thought they had Obama in their pockets even though he has a history of hostility to all business. Bad move !

    Actually let me amend this slightly . What BP bought with Obama contributions is rubber stamped permit revisions the week before the explosion.
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #13

    Jun 18, 2010, 08:27 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon View Post
    What I call end of life counseling, you call a death panel.
    No one is against end of life counseling unless it's forced on someone which is exactly what those writing the regulations favor, along with deciding which treatments they'll allow during end of life care. The fact is, these people want the kind of health care you get in say, Belgium.

    Warning to Britain as almost half of Belgium's euthanasia nurses admit to killing without consent
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #14

    Jun 18, 2010, 08:32 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    You guys are right about one thing . Any corporation that thinks they are buying anything when they give money to a politician is delusional. BP thought they had Obama in their pockets
    Hello again, tom:

    Well, when it came down to the taxpayers and the poor people in the gulf, OR BP, BP got thrown under the bus. Bummer for them, huh? But, as you infer, no Republican would have done it. When a Republican is bought and paid for, he STAYS bought.

    And, it's going to get worse since Citizens United.

    excon
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    #15

    Jun 18, 2010, 08:37 AM

    Yes the President was so concerned about the "poor people of the gulf " that he prevented the building of barrier berms ;the swift deployment of booms and the use of foreign ships designed to suck the oil from the water during oil spills.
    He is so concerned about the "poor people of the gulf " that he imposed a moratorium on drilling forcing thousands of them onto unemployment .
    speechlesstx's Avatar
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    #16

    Jun 18, 2010, 08:49 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon View Post
    And, it's gonna get worse since Citizens United.
    And the Dem's answer to that would have trampled free speech rights. But fortunately, too much bickering led to Pelosi yanking the bill. It's kind of hard to deciding who has rights and who doesn't after all.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #17

    Jun 18, 2010, 09:03 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    And the Dem's answer to that would have trampled free speech rights.
    Hello again, Steve:

    Ok, I buy your argument. SEIU is NOT a person, and is NOT entitled to free speech rights any longer. People are. Here's the First Amendment:

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

    I know what it says. I know you think it says something else.

    I'll make THIS concession, though. If corporations have the same rights as people, they should suffer the same punishments people do when they violate other people rights. I know a corporation can now be found guilty of a felony - but NOBODY goes to jail.

    Therefore, I propose that in the future, if a corporation commits a felony, every single employee in that corporation should go to the slam. Rights come with responsibilities.

    excon
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #18

    Jun 18, 2010, 09:49 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon View Post
    I know a corporation can now be found guilty of a felony - but NOBODY goes to jail.
    Then perhaps you need to change the sentencing guidelines. Meanwhile, convicted agents of corporations to go to jail for felonies.

    SKILLING GETS 24 YEARS IN PRISON FOR ENRON FRAUD

    2 from Enron receive prison assignments

    Fraud Case Tied to Enron Ends in Prison for 3 Men

    Ex-Tyco executives get up to 25 years in prison

    Ex-Qwest CEO given six years in prison

    Adelphia founder gets 15-year term; son gets 20

    Former WorldCom chief, 63 years-old, could spend the rest of his life in prison.

    Bernie Madoff of Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC was sentenced to 150 years.

    Therefore, I propose that in the future, if a corporation commits a felony, every single employee in that corporation should go to the slam. Rights come with responsibilities.
    Never one to shy away from the ridiculous, eh?
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #19

    Jun 18, 2010, 10:06 AM

    Hello again, Steve:

    I was careful to distinguish between individuals and corporations. You weren't. In fact, that's actually the BASIS for our disagreement - your inability to make that distinction.

    excon
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #20

    Jun 18, 2010, 10:26 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, Steve:

    I was careful to distinguish between individuals and corporations. You weren't. In fact, that's actually the BASIS for our disagreement - your inability to make that distinction.
    I believe I was making that distinction, "convicted agents of corporations." And that's why I linked to the sentencing guidelines:

    The guidelines and policy statements in this chapter apply when the convicted defendant is an organization. Organizations can act only through agents and, under federal criminal law, generally are vicariously liable for offenses committed by their agents. At the same time, individual agents are responsible for their own criminal conduct. Federal prosecutions of organizations therefore frequently involve individual and organizational co-defendants. Convicted individual agents of organizations are sentenced in accordance with the guidelines and policy statements in the preceding chapters. This chapter is designed so that the sanctions imposed upon organizations and their agents, taken together, will provide just punishment, adequate deterrence, and incentives for organizations to maintain internal mechanisms for preventing, detecting, and reporting criminal conduct.
    There is no "just punishment" in sending every employee of a corporation like Enron to jail. Those responsible WERE sent to jail in every instance I cited, but there is no justice in punishing the guy taking out the trash because the CEO broke the law. The CEO goes to jail, the company is fined or whatever, and life goes on.

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