[excon]

Hello again, t:

Well, if they show up, just say, "You dirty coppers. I'm innocent, I tell ya." It always worked for me.

excon

[thisisit]

Ok, and if that doesn't work I'll point to my twin and say she's the one who did it ;)

[JudyKayTee]

I'm right here excon, haven't been arrested or charged with any crime yet ;)

Of course you know what they say, these things take time

Maybe excon (who should know) or somebody else will come back and explain to you AGAIN the difference between civil and criminal law.

[DrBill100]

Do you know Cary Grant never said Judy, Judy, Judy - although the quote has always been attributed to him?

I wasn't thinking of Cary Grant. I had a neighbor, Bob, came home drunk every Saturday night. "Judy, Judy, Judy" he would announce as he entered the yard. "Judy, Judy, Judy. Let your daddy in." If his wife didn't respond immediately, he would continue until she did. Getting louder and louder.

Six months ago come Saturday his wife shot and killed him. Her name was Margaret.

[thisisit]

And maybe I should explain again, I have the advice of my lawyer and according to him, I have done nothing criminal here. Besides, I thought you unsubscribed to this post.

[thisisit]

I wasn't thinking of Cary Grant. I had a neighbor, Bob, came home drunk every Saturday night. "Judy, Judy, Judy" he would announce as he entered the yard. "Judy, Judy, Judy. Let your daddy in." If his wife didn't respond immediately, he would continue until she did. Getting louder and louder.

Six months ago come Saturday his wife shot and killed him. Her name was Margaret.

Omygosh, that's terrible!

[JudyKayTee]

And maybe I should explain again, I have the advice of my lawyer and according to him, I have done nothing criminal here. Besides, I thought you unsubscribed to this post.

Oh, I did but I can't resist when you are so far off the legal track and just don't understand.

Your Attorney told you that you did nothing CRIMINAL and, thus, could not be arrested (and I'm not aware anyone said you did anything criminal). I said that you could be SUED and that's CIVIL for defamation.

And then after your Attorney told you you did nothing criminal you signed on and said you hadn't been arrested yet. Let's see -

Civil equals lawsuit.

Criminal equals arrest.

[thisisit]

I'm glad I'm not a bitter person.

My attorney has told me I have nothing to fear as far as ANY kind of lawsuit being brought against me, thus far. Sorry I did not make that distinction when I said he had told me I had done nothing criminal. However someone in the coroner's office may have done something criminal.

I was reluctant to call my attorney before I got some feedback because I didn't want him to make any moves without my go ahead... which had happened before.

You come off as a bitter woman with a chip on her shoulder. I mean no disrespect, just saying. It is difficult enough for me to deal with my grief and I don't appreciate the tone of your posts.

[thisisit]

I had my meeting with the coroner yesterday. She convinced me that my son died from a seizure. And though there is law, protocol and procedure that says an autopsy is needed when someone dies at home alone with no apparent cause, she is allowed to use discretion... she said she had seen very many seizure bathtub deaths, and to her, it was obvious that is what killed my son. She went over the autopsy photos and external exam and toxicology report and explained everything to me.

However, she pointed the finger at his doctor and told me his doctor is not telling me the truth about his frantic attempt to get a hold of my son the day he died and the appointment he went to the day before he died. She told me he was uncooperative with her and refused to sign the death certificate AND that there is no way possible that his blood levels of anti seizure meds were stable and therapeutic the day before he died, because he only had trace amounts in his toxicology screen.

She suggested that I get my son's medical records from the doctor, including his lab work. I'll do that... I'm not trying to sue anyone, I just want to know what happened and why it happened.

I would greatly appreciate it if anyone who has negative comments would keep them to themselves.

[tickle]

Hi this, I am glad you got that far and could be on your way to closure. All the best my dear on your journey.

Tick

[thisisit]

Thank you so much tickle! I feel I am getting closure on this sad event. I can't count the many times I warned my son not to miss his medications and cried while warning him to never take a bath while alone. No matter what the coroner did or didn't do and no matter what his doctor did or didn't do, it was up to my son to at least take his meds as prescribed, and on time.

[excon]

I'm not trying to sue anyone, I just want to know what happened and why it happened.

Hello again, this:

It looks like you are getting closer... I'm glad.

But, if you're trying to convince ME to help you because you DON'T want to sue anybody, you got the wrong guy. I think suing people is GOOD. Besides, if you're honest with yourself for a moment, you'll agree with me...

Come on now. If you determine that his doctor made HUGE mistakes that might have caused, or hurried along your sons death, don't tell me that you'll be satisfied by simply learning about it... Nope, you're going to want to sue his a$$ off, and you'd be right.

excon

[thisisit]

I don't believe he made any mistakes, ex... I don't believe he was honest with me, but I think the mistake was with my son not taking his medicine.

The fact is, my son went to the doctor the day before he died to complain about the side effects of his seizure meds. He wanted to stop taking them, or at least, get it changed to something more tolerable. He had not had a seizure since Oct. 09 (that one nearly killed him), so, in that sense, he seemed more stable. But, my son wanted the meds changed and he was in denial about the seriousness of his condition. That is a fact.

His doctor told me the only reason he was calling him on that Saturday was to tell him that he would be willing to change his meds only IF my son would be willing to go into the hospital for the change. He said his blood levels were in the therapeutic range and that he was more stable than he'd ever seen him. I don't think that is the truth, if it was, he could have offered to do that when my son was at his appointment.

What I believe now is that the doctor was calling him on Saturday to warn him that his blood levels were way too low, but, by then it was too late. My guess is that he did not have the blood level results available at the time of the appointment. I am not sure why the doctor wouldn't be up front and honest about that, but I also don't know exactly what was said back and forth between the coroner and him. I only know that neither of them like the other.

Regardless, it was my son's responsibility to take his medication, and obviously he did not.

[excon]

I am not sure why the doctor wouldn't be up front and honest about that, but I also don't know exactly what was said back and forth between the coroner and him. I only know that neither of them like the other.

Regardless, it was my son's responsibility to take his medication, and obviously he did not.

Hello again, this:

Please forgive my cynical nature, but if the doctor is HIDING something, it might be because he did something REALLY wrong. Don't be so quick to blame your son.

So, we HAD a coroner who we thought was the bad guy, and we waited. Now we find out the coroner is cool, and his doctor is the bad guy. But, lo and behold, he says he's not. So you've interviewed everybody. The stories DON'T match up. There's nobody left to interview, you have NO answers, and you've run into a stonewall. Isn't it about time you hired a lawyer?

excon

[thisisit]

I have a lawyer...

The coroner is not cool, I don't like her or her attitude. I still think she should have done an autopsy, and I'm not sure she is allowed to decide, based on her opinions, whether to do an autopsy or not.

I liked my son's doctor, though my son hated him, and so did/does the mother of his child. And yes, the doctor might be trying to hide something, or maybe not. Maybe he is just nervous that he didn't call my son till Saturday, when an earlier call could have saved him? I don't know those answers yet, but I might be able to find out with my son's medical records.

The thing is, the ultimate responsibility lies with my son. I was with my son on several occasions when the doctor was frantic, practically jumping up and down, to impress upon him how important it was to take every single pill prescribed. He was warned many times that not taking his medication could result in death... and I was with my son on countless occasions when he said he wanted to just stop taking the pills. So many times he was warned by me, and his doctor, yet his toxicology showed he stopped taking his medicine or missed at least several doses.

[tickle]

The thing is, the ultimate responsibility lies with my son. I was with my son on several ocassions when the doctor was frantic, practically jumping up and down, to impress upon him how important it was to take every single pill prescribed. He was warned many times that not taking his medication could result in death... and I was with my son on countless ocassions when he said he wanted to just stop taking the pills. So many times he was warned by me, and his doctor, yet his toxicology showed he stopped taking his medicine or missed at least several doses.

Hi this, just wondering, these anti seizure meds your son was on, did they create side effects that he just could not tolerate... sleeplessness, irritability? Or was it your son just did not want to be on any meds, no matter what they were ?

I feel so badly for you my dear. My son 27, is on anti seizure meds, living with it for years; busy guy, productive, the meds don't cause him any side effects where he can't function. He has nocturnal seizures, although less in the last few years, but there were a few times during the night I thought I would lose him. I was always blessed with being a light sleeper, listening all the time. That is what saved him.

I know beyond a shadow of a doubt what you went through.

Tick

[thisisit]

He had terrible side effects, his gums swelled, he got painful acne all over his back, rashes, and swelling in his face, dullness, difficulty concentrating... seems he got most side effects from each drug he tried. I hope your son continues to do well with his meds.

[JudyKayTee]

Are you still planning on suing the coroner?

[DrBill100]

I'm glad you had satisfactory results from your meeting. I believe that the attitude and demeanor of the pathologist tells you a lot about how they conduct their business. It sounds as though this doctor at least took the time to address the issues in relation to cause of death. That's important to you and hopefully brings you some comfort.

However, I don't believe the toxicology results can be given much weight in the matter. As I recall, there was a single subclavian blood sample drawn at an unknown (to me) time. (If there were additional samples drawn, please let me know). Here let me refer to a couple of doctors far more experienced and internationally recognized specialists:

"There is substantial published evidence to show that for most drugs... there are important differences in their concentration in blood according to the time of specimen collection after death, choice of sampling site, method of sampling and volume of blood collected (Pounder and Jones 1990; Pounder 1993). It is common to observe tenfold differences in the concentration of certain drugs.... in post-mortem blood taken from different sites."

Clear your head of all ideas of in vivo toxicological analyses. Postmortem toxicology is completely different. Postmortem there is no even predictable distribution such as occurs through metabolism/circulation in life. Rather the processes of postmortem redistribution (PMR) take over and that is dependent on numerous factors, two of which are the pharmacokinetic properties of the drug and the elapsed time between sampling and time of death. The results obtained postmortem are not a snapshot of the condition/concentration of the drug at time of death.

The usual practice is to screen blood, urine and vitreous fluid concentrations along with selected tissue samples. There is a ratio and one corroborates the other. The preferred sample site for blood is the femoral vein.

If his private doctor had a laboratory blood analysis those results would be far more accurate than the PM toxicology report. If you are unable to obtain that then it is possible to research the specific drug in relation to PMR.

Please don't place reliance on the PM toxicology report without additional information.

[thisisit]

Thanks Dr. Bill, obviously I've got further investigations to do... :(

There was only one source for the PM toxicology and the coroner argued with me about the unreliability of it.