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Jere76 · Dec 5, 2006, 10:16 PM

I replaced a head gasket on a 93 Honda Civic DX. I used the Haynes Guide and got back to the point of putting the distributor on and now am at a loss. I put new Bosch spark plugs in and followed all torque specs. put everything back in it's respective place(according to the book) and it won't turn over. Any suggestions? Please be detailed.

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 5, 2006, 10:39 PM

Are you saying it will "crank but not start?" Did you triple-check internal timing mark alignments? Did you mark your distributor before removal, to ensure engine timing would be fairly close?

1. When you turn the ignition switch to ON (not START), does the Check Engine Light (CEL) come on and then go off after 2 seconds? If not, the problem is with the ACG (ALT) (S) fuse, in the under-dash fuse/relay box; ECM (perform the K-Test, in FAQ); Main Relay; or the Ignition Switch. Perform tests in that order.

2. When the CEL goes out, do you hear and/or feel the Main Relay "click"? If not, repair or replace the Main Relay.

3. During the 2 second interval that the CEL is on, do you hear the fuel pump in the gas tank run? If not, check the fuel pump.

By the way, did you oil the head bolts and washer surfaces with clean oil, before torquing? If you didn't, the head bolts are likely 25% under-torqued, which could result in the head not sealing properly.

Jere76, be specific in your responses, please.

Jere76 · Dec 6, 2006, 11:20 AM

CEL came on for @2 seconds then off. Not sure what to listen for on the fuel pump, is it an obvious sound from the driver seat? Also, I did dip the head bolts in oil but I did not do anything to the washers. Do you think it will be O.K. Thanks

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 6, 2006, 11:44 AM

Yes, since you lubricated the head bolts with oil your torque should be fine. Lower the driver's window and you should be able to hear the fuel pump run. It's a low, but distinct sound. Have someone else turn the key to ON and you listen, if necessary.

Jere76 · Dec 6, 2006, 11:49 AM

This may be simple minded, but will the fuel pump shut off if you don't start it and how long will it take to do so?

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 6, 2006, 12:04 PM

If the ECM and main relay are working properly, the fuel pump will only run for 2 seconds and then the ECM will shut it off, when the ignition switch is turned to ON. If you turn the ignition key to START, the fuel pump will keep running until you release the key. With the ignition key turned to START, however, you likely can't hear the fuel pump run, since the starter motor will drown it out.

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 6, 2006, 12:14 PM

Honda officiandos should always start their car by turning the ignition switch to ON, wait for the CEL to go out, and listen for the fuel pump running. During this 2 second period, the fuel pump pressurizes the fuel rail with gasoline. After this is done, turn the ignition switch to START and the car fires off instantly. It's easier on the starter, battery, and ignition system. Get in the habit of listening for the "click" of the main relay, the fuel pump running, and the CEL coming on and going off. It gives you a better understanding of what's going on and provides you valuable diagnostic information every time you start your car.

Jere76 · Dec 6, 2006, 12:35 PM

Thanks for the starting advice. Good luck getting my wife to comply. Yes it does crank but not fire up. I took the spark plugs out and the tips were black. What does this mean? Also I did set the camshaft sprocket TDC but did nothing with the distributor.(OOPS? ) where do I begin to fix the issue?

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 6, 2006, 12:52 PM

It took me a few times, but I got my wife "trained" and she does it instinctively now. She's a gamer, so you have to make a game of it.

Black tips may only indicate the plugs aren't really firing. In the future, my advice is to only use NGK plugs on Hondas. Many people have problems with other brands. My experience with cross-referenced plugs has not been good.

Loosen the three 12mm distributor mounting bolts and rotate the distributor counter-clockwise a little. This will advance the timing. Retighten the bolts and see if the car fires up. Once you get it to run, you can keep the bolts slightly loose and rotate the distributor, while the engine is running, until it sounds right. Later, you can follow my instructions below in setting your idle rpm and timing with a strobe:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...tml#post219963

You still did not tell me if you can hear the fuel pump run. Did you have a warped head, from the engine overheating? If so, was the head machined and valve work done?

Jere76 · Dec 6, 2006, 01:13 PM

Fuel pump is good. We bought the car used with a blown head gasket and cracked radiator. Radiator was fixed. Took the head to the shop and had it machined and valve job. Don't know what caused it to blow. I think it overheated and warped it, but not sure. I am at a loss as to how to make sure the distributor and wires are in the right place. I just want to be sure that I am not doing harm to the car if I keep trying to start it up and fiddle with the distributor. I put the camshaft back at TDC and checked the valve clearances with a feeler gauge according to specs. Is there a chance of the valves getting bent at the stage I am at now? Got to go back to work now but I will be back online in a few hours. Thanks for all the help this far.

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 6, 2006, 01:31 PM

Analysis: The basic ignition system checks out OK. The problem is either with timing mark alignment or the distributor. Did you follow the timing procedure below?

On the D15B7 and D15B8 engines:

1. Set the crankshaft so that the No. 1 piston is at top dead center (TDC). Align the groove on the teeth side of the timing belt drive pulley to the arrow pointer on the oil pump.

2. Align the TDC marks on the camshaft pulley with the cylinder head upper surface.

Jere76 · Dec 7, 2006, 05:54 PM

I think I may have it. I did the two pin wire test on the ECM and the check engine light stayed on. Could this be why the car won't start. I know you mentioned checking it earlier, I just didn't catch it until now. So do I run out and replace the ECM or might it be something else. The spark plugs are getting sparks, will this still happen even with a bad ECM.

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 7, 2006, 07:17 PM

If your CEL comes on and then goes off after 2 seconds, I think your ECM is probably fine. Run the K-Test on the MAP Sensor connector, as described in the FAQ section, to confirm.

I think you should check the distributor over:
1. Check for battery voltage between the BLK/YEL wire and body ground, after turning the ignition switch to ON.
2. Turn the ignition switch to ON and check for voltage between the WHT/BLU wire and body ground. There should be battery voltage.
3. Test the igniter and coil. Autozone and O'Reilly Auto will do this for free. Remember to coat the back of the igniter with silicone grease, before installing, or it will shortly fail.
4. Ensure the connections on the igniter and coil are tight.
5. Ensure distributor cap and rotor look OK. Make sure the secondary coil spring makes contact with contact point inside the distributor. Ensure there is no carbon tracking inside distributor.

Also, you really only want to use NGK plugs in Hondas--other brands just don't work as well.

Jere76 · Dec 7, 2006, 08:01 PM

What is the least expensive voltage test tool I can get for this job and where do I buy it?

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 7, 2006, 08:21 PM

Get any inexpensive multimeter. Harbor Freight has them on sale for $5. Sears has better ones on sale for $10 sometimes. Radio Shack also sells them.

You might even be able to borrow one from someone for a few days.

Remember, if you decide to test the coil and igniter, remove the coil first and install it last--it gives you more room to work around the igniter.

Most Civic electrical problems are related to the main relay, igniter, coil, and ECM. If you answered the 3 basic questions correctly, the main relay and ECM should be OK. That leaves the igniter and coil for testing. Of the two, the igniter, which is like points on old cars, is the one that gives the most trouble. It opens and closes the voltage (hence, magnetic field buildup and collapse) in the primary circuit of the coil to cause high voltage in the secondary.

Jere76 · Dec 7, 2006, 10:43 PM

Did the K test, it's good I think. Still need to check igniter and coil but I was curious if there is a reset on the ECM or anything I need to be concerned with.

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 8, 2006, 06:34 AM

Remove the 7.5 amp. BACKUP Fuse in the under-hood fuse box (back row, second from the left) for 10 seconds or disconnect the negative battery cable for 10 seconds.

Did you record 5 volts with the K-Test?

Jere76 · Dec 8, 2006, 07:34 PM

I di the K-test. 5 volts. Checked the ICM, it's good, so is the coil. I went and put a rebuilt distributor on and tried to start it. Again it made one quick POP! Like a champagne cork and then it just continued to crank. Could this be a compression issue?

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 8, 2006, 07:58 PM

Yes. I would get a compression tester and test each cylinder, as someone else cranks the engine. It should start at this point--all of the major electrical components test OK.

Is the fuel rail being pressurized? Do you still hear the fuel pump?

Cylinder compression pressure:
. Standard, 184 psi
. Minimum, 135 psi
. Maximum variation between cylinders, 28 psi

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 8, 2006, 08:17 PM

Are you sure your spark plug wires are plugged into the correct holes in the distributor?