[excon]

Hello:

Where do you think the power to CHANGE America resides? Do you think that's a NEW phenomenon? Vote for one.

excon

[Wondergirl]

The Individual.

When each person takes responsibility for himself -- doesn't throw trash on the ground, recycles paper and plastic, keeps his pants zipped or her legs together, respects and cares for children and animals, respects and cares for other adults, all of which will happen because he respects and cares for himself -- then there will be positive change.

[Unknown008]

the Individual.

When each person takes responsibility for himself -- doesn't throw trash on the ground, recycles paper and plastic, keeps his pants zipped or her legs together, respects and cares for children and animals, respects and cares for other adults, all of which will happen because he respects and cares for himself -- then there will be positive change.

I agree with WG. It's only when every of us really decides to do what is best for the world, not what (s)he may think is best for the individual himself/herself, only then that things would go for the better.

[Catsmine]

"the power to CHANGE America" resides with the people. They put up with the politicians they sent to the Federal government and they are the only ones that can pull the politicians out.

[KISS]

I'm not sure whether to answer where power should lie with or where you think it lies with?

[inthebox]

I put other:

Special interest groups - that could be the unions, or the trial lawyers, the nra, religious groups, corporations, different industry groups etc...

They pool their money and use that and lobbyists to influence congress who then in turn make the laws. I don't think it is a new phenomenon.


In our own lives, I agree with WG. No matter the external circumstances, the individual ultimately determines their own response.




G&P

[talaniman]

When people get tired of being screwed, they will make the changes that this country needs.

Doing what big money, or government says, has not been a big help has it??

[tomder55]

The system has been perverted to minimize the individual or "the people" .
George Washington worried about political parties and interests and he was right .

Here is an extended quote from his farewell address .

All obstructions to the execution of the Laws, all combinations and associations, under whatever plausible character, with the real design to direct, control, counteract, or awe the regular deliberation and action of the constituted authorities, are destructive of this fundamental principle, and of fatal tendency. They [political parties] serve to organize faction, to give it an artificial and extraordinary force; to put, in the place of the delegated will of the nation, the will of a party, often a small but artful and enterprising minority of the community; and, according to the alternate triumphs of different parties, to make the public administration the mirror of the ill-concerted and incongruous projects of faction, rather than the organ of consistent and wholesome plans digested by common counsels, and modified by mutual interests.

"However combinations or associations of the above description may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely, in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people, and to usurp for themselves the reins of government; destroying afterwards the very engines, which have lifted them to unjust dominion."

Or as Thomas Paine is quoted as saying :

“It is the nature and intention of a constitution to prevent governing by party, by establishing a common principle that shall limit and control the power and impulse of party, and that says to all parties, thus far shalt thou go and no further. But in the absence of a constitution, men look entirely to party; and instead of principle governing party, party governs principle.”

Unfortunately the Founders did not learn the lessons of their own rhetoric and before 1800 the political party system we have today was established.
It is in this pursuit of power through the party that true power in this country resides .

That is why I select "other " .

[excon]

Unfortunately the Founders did not learn the lessons of their own rhetoric and before 1800 the political party system we have today was established.
It is in this persuit of power through the party that true power in this country resides ... That is why I select "other " .

Hello tom:

I don't disagree with your post in substance. However, I don't see political parties as the enemy. They're only doing what political parties have been doing from the get go, and that's to grab power, or wrest it from those who have it, and then keep it for as long as possible. That's what they do.

The ENEMY, however, is the MONEY that flows into the parties - not the parties themselves. The REAL power is the $$$'s - NOT the party. That is why I selected corporations - especially in light of a recent Supreme Court decision.

excon

[tomder55]

There are many corporations in this country from lowely individuals to large companies representing thousands of people and their literally hundreds of thousands of investors ,to corporations representing trade unions ,to corporations representing so called special interests both public and private for a wide varieties of issues.

In other words ,"the people ";in one way or another, are represented by one corporation or multiple corporations acting on their behalf.

Now if they had the power the money flow would go from the politician to the corporation and not the other way around.

[Wondergirl]

Now if ["the people"] had the power the money flow would go from the politician to the corporation and not the other way around.

But factor in greed...

[tomder55]

Greed is a wonderfully abstract word meaning a selfish and excessive desire for more of something than is needed. It is abstract in that someone else sets the parameters.
Would an excess desire for power fill the definition ? I think it does.

Nothing greeder than a political party then which has the sole purpose in the accumulating and winning power.

[excon]

Now if they had the power the money flow would go from the politician to the corporation and not the other way around.

Hello again, tom:

And, you don't think that's EXACTLY what's happening?? Dude! Except, the politician make laws that have US do the paying (or bailing out)(or subsidizing)(or making laws that allow them to RIP us off). Stuff like that.

excon

[tomder55]

Dude ;with a word from Eric Holder Goldman can cease to exist . With a couple hours of testimony to the Senate their business may have been irreparably damaged .

Want to know real power ? On the command of Rudy Guilani Drexel Burnham Lambert ceased to exist .Ask Michael Milken if he and his corporation had more power than a US District Attorney ,or an SEC bureaucrat for that matter .

Gimme a break already .

Corporations give money to politicians the same as a local merchant here used to give protection money to the mob.

[inthebox]

Ex

Walmart or Exxon may make billions, but they can't take my money or force me to buy their products. I can go to a competitor.

The government, congress, on the other hand, can TAX. So if congress passes a law that I have to pay extra if I want to use a tanning bed, they could and they have. You may say that I don't have to chose to go to a tanning bed, but even though I don't pay the extra tax, the extra tax has caused a behavioral change. That is real power.


G&P

[excon]

In other words ,"the people ";in one way or another, are represented by one corporation or multiple corporations acting on their behalf.

Hello tom:

ME? I'd rather do it the old fashioned way - being represented by my congressman.

excon

[tomder55]

You don't support a special interest corporate lobby or have one working to influence policy on your behalf ? How about NORML?

[excon]

you don't support a special interest corporate lobby or have one working to influence policy on your behalf ? How about NORML?

Hello again, tom:

Ok, but John McCain limited how much they can give. That makes sense to me. UNLIMITED giving makes NO sense.

excon