[manhattan42]

The problem with going into court, even small claims court, without legal representation, is best expressed by the old axiom:

"Anyone who represents himself in court has a fool for an attorney."

It will usually cost nothing to consult your attorney as to your rights.

You are also entitled to reasonable attorney's fees should you go to court with your attorney and prevail.

Is it necessary to use an attorney? No.

Can you go to court without an attorney and win? Sometimes.

But your chances to win can be greatly diminished without one... especially since you can bet the contractor in this case is going to be there with his attorney.

'Cheaper' is not always better and 'cheaper' can often cost you more in the long run... especially if you lose in small claims court because of your own ignorance of the law... and then need to spend big bucks to appeal.

Also, it is the plaintiff who has to pay to file in small claims court.

A trip to the attorney's office to have the case and contract assessed costs nothing... and can give a good indication of whether you have a snowball's chance to prevail.

Call your attorney.

It's the cheapest solution of all.

[excon]

The problem with going into court, even small claims court, without legal representation, is best expressed by the old axiom:

"Anyone who represents himself in court has a fool for an attorney."

It will usually cost nothing to consult your attorney as to your rights. Call your attorney.

It's the cheapest solution of all.

Hello again, manhattan:

Couple things.

In MOST of this country's small claim courts, attorney's are NOT allowed. I don't know ANY lawyer's who dispense FREE advice, consequently, visiting one first would NOT the cheapest solution of all.

excon

[manhattan42]

First, few, if any attorneys will charge for an initial consultation to determine whether they will want to take a case or whether the potential client even has a case. That is the entire purpose of the free initial consultation.

Second, excon either does not live in the US or is entirely confused about a plaintiff or defendant's right to counsel.
While a plaintiff or defendant in a small claims action is not normally required to have an attorney, the plaintiff and defendant is certainly entitled and permitted to be represented by an attorney... even at the small claims or magisterial level.

Most certainly, rules and laws for small claims court vary from state to state and by country. (Another reason why one needs to consult a local attorney to understand one's rights and responsibilities.)

But the right to counsel in a court proceeding is guaranteed by the US Constitution and applies even in small claims matters.

[excon]

But the right to counsel in a court proceeding is guaranteed by the US Constitution and applies even in small claims matters.

Hello again,

You do NOT have the right to counsel in civil court. The Constitution mentions NOTHING on the subject. Manhattan is just flat out wrong, and I'm tired of arguing over petty crap.

Here on the law boards, people are entitled to their opinions, though - even if they are WRONG.

excon

[manhattan42]

"Here on the law boards, people are entitled to their opinions, though - even if they are WRONG."

And why it remains in ScreenPorch's best interest to consult her own attorney in the matter...

[Fr_Chuck]

First, few, if any attorneys will charge for an initial consultation to determine whether or not they will want to take a case or whether or not the potential client even has a case. That is the entire purpose of the free initial consultation.

Second, excon either does not live in the US or is entirely confused about a plaintiff or defendant's right to counsel.
While a plaintiff or defendent in a small claims action is not normally required to have an attorney, the plaintiff and defendant is certainly entitled and permitted to be represented by an attorney...even at the small claims or magisterial level.

Most certainly, rules and laws for small claims court vary from state to state and by country. (Another reason why one needs to consult a local attorney to understand one's rights and responsibilites.)

But the right to counsel in a court proceeding is guaranteed by the US Constitution and applies even in small claims matters.

First your answer is wrong and poor,

Most attorneys now do charge for even the first visit, exceptions are often some bankruptcy attorneys, but about 1/3 of them are now charging a small fee for the first visit. So you need to ask before you go for a visit and get sued for a bill thinking it is free. At least in the US, perhaps you are from another country.

Small claims court, nope, sorry, most do not allow attorneys in court, and the rules of evidence and court procedure are more relaxed.

If you wish to sue for that same claim with an attorney you may do so, but not in small claims court, you have to go to the next higher level of civil court in your state.

So please you have a right to an attorney only in criminal cases, not civil, if you are sued and can't afford an attorney in civil court, you are just out of luck.

[manhattan42]

Again, Fr Chuck is also confusing the point that an attorney in small claims court is not required but is certainly permitted.

In my state, Pennsylvania, attorneys are present with plaintiffs and defendants all the time in small claims courts.

And while someone being sued civilly certainly does not have a right to be represented by a court appointed attorney, they certainly do have a right to counsel and to have an attorney represent them if they wish and can afford one.

Again, both Fr Chuck and excon are speaking from their own limited experiences with small claims practices in their own jurisdictions... and illustrates why it is imperative to get local legal advice (even if it comes from a free Legal Aide Society attorney) regarding one's rights in one's own state, province or country.

None of their advice is factual nor applies at all in my state.

And attorneys still provide free initial consultations for most legal matters here.

[manhattan42]

Here is a helpful link to Small Claims Courts in the United States and District of Columbia:

State Guide to Small Claims Courts

One will find that in most US states, attorneys are permitted or even required in Small Claims Court when one of the parties is a corporation.

The following jurisdications allow attorneys in small claims courts without question:

Alabama
Alaska
Connecticut
Delaware
District of Columbia
Florida
Georgia
Hawaii
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisianna
Maine
Maryland
Massachusetts
Minnesota
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
Nevada
New Hamsphire
New Jersey
New York
New Mexico
North Carolina
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennesee
Texas
Utah
Vermont
West Virginia
Wisconsin
Wyoming

These states permit attorney representation in small claims courts generally if both parties and the court agrees:

Arizona
Colorado
Oregon
Washington


Only the following states outright prohibit attorneys in small claims court:

Arkansas
California
Nebraska
Idaho
Michigan
Virginia

It is CLEAR that very few states actually prohibit an attorney from representing a plaintiff or defendant in a small claims action.

Check the link above for pertinant information regarding small claims matters for your state.

[screen porch]

Don't know if this WHERE I should say this but there is an answer to this delimma. We were taken to small claims court and the judge ruled in our favor. They did not get the $2150 they actually sued us for!

[excon]

Hello screen:

This IS the right place for it, and thank you for letting us know.

Even though you may have been entitled to a lawyer, pursuant to MY advice, you didn't burden yourself with that expense, and you heard the law from the judge - which is exactly what I thought would happen.

excon

PS> That manhattan dude only showed up for THIS argument. I never heard from him before your post or afterwords.

[manhattan42]

Now all you need to do is wait for his appeal or wait for him to pay you (if he was ordered to pay you anything)... which may be a long time in coming... if at all.

And if he does appeal, now you will be forced to go to court with an attorney to fight the charges out of your own pocket... and if you don't show up for court... he wins... and you have to pay him.

[21boat]

Interesting Post.

Question to Op. If the labor ended up MORE then he had figured on the contract would you pay him more for the estimated labor end. The flip of the coin.

As a contractor I get burned on the other end. Bottom line is simple. Is it cost effective to Battle it out . Most if the times its not depending if you get too stuck on "principle"

Glad its going good so far. I with Manhattan on this. Judgments aren't worth crap in claims court. Most of the time you still have to chase the money and go to court again.

[21boat]

Can I be your Contractor. In the 30 years of contracting ( Sued twice, D#m good track record, I won the one, other suit deal was cut to customer)

I never had a bonus. But I was called back more then once for more work. About a 65% of my work is a referals

Hi screen porch.Being a Contractor for over 30 years I posed my question being on the other end too many times. I run into things like a customer was taking the left over brick from a job we just finished up the day before (hadn't cleaned up yet) an I caught him putting the brick still there into his garage.

I asked what's going on? He said "getting his brick thats left over from the job and I paid for those brick". I said Hold on there, first off I had a Set Contract for the work. Nothing in that Contract had anything pertaining to Materials cost and labor cost. It clearly states, I will supply all the material and labor necessary to preform above said work. I also pointed out those couple of hundred brick siting there (which I ORDERED extras) is because it matches two more repair jobs I have in this development. ( his job was a hearth and chimney for a woosd stove)

This is why I posed the flip of the coin. I also flip the coin and ask the customers. If the re hap took more time and material then I figured, then what. So why doesn't the door swing both ways. Just on a side note I DO buy the best grade materials within reason or give the customer the option to up grade and show the budget for that area of work.