[kp2171]

Val -

I agree with much of that and was just getting back on here to add that I do think some kids get way too caught up in the noise of relationships way to deep. Doesn't take much searching of the threads here to see it.

14 year old guys and girls don't need to worry as much about how to play the other side as they need to worry about knowing themselves. Same goes for the 18, 20, 25 year olds and older...

[Allheart]

Hi again,

It's not a matter of not liking it, just didn't know there was a handout for the fellas to follow. I can see in the initial stages, feeling your way through and not being so revealing as to scare her away or perhaps take out all the fun that does occur with the does he, doesn't he??

I guess, us gals, (sorry to generalize) have each other to chat things over with, plus, doubt our handout would be even printable :):). Juuuust kiddn. You should hear some of OUR conversations... that would be a very interesting thread.

But as Val said, not good to generalize. What may turn a girls head may actually turn the another girls head in the opposite direction.

Personally, a little suspense, initially, is nice, but in no way would I be turned off, or put a guy in the "friendship" category because he was open and honest, quite the opposite. A man that is able to express himself, honestly, well, to me, is truly a man.

There is a young guy in work, the sweetest most incredible human being I have ever had the pleasure to meet. He met an incredibly nice girl, and he was soooooo happy. A couple of months into the relationship I saw him in the halls and he looked so degected. I asked him what was wrong. He told me he was just in the warehouse talking to the "guys" and they told him he was being too nice to his girlfriend and that he should act like he doesn't really care for her or not so much, their "valuable" advice was endless. And he was beside himself. He said the guys told him that girls don't like it when you are so nice, the like a challenge. He was just so confused. I sat him down and asked him, how is the relationship going?? He said great! We are happy, we get along so well. I then said to him then WHY would you change anything. I told him, I am a women, and the thing I liked the most and found so appealing is when I knew, the guy was being genuine. I told him to be true to who he was and listen to his own heart. Two years later... they are still together and incredibly happy. Not because of my advice, because he was genuine and
True to who he really is. Oh and the guys in the warehouse, well there still there too, hopefully not as advisers :) Why would they tell him that??

Anyway, Wildcat thanks so much for sharing. It started an incredible thread and opened up a lot of discussions, very good ones.

[Geoffersonairplane]

You must always be true to yourself. I think true happiness will come when you have lived a life where through everything, you have always been true to yourself and others. You can look back and smile.

Life should not be a game of chess, unfortunately some aspects of it are characteristic of this but the real winners are those that finish knowing that they have been true to themselves..

Only my opinion though!

[ballybee]

You must always be true to yourself. I think true happiness will come when you have lived a life where through everything, you have always been true to yourself and others. You can look back and smile.

Life should not be a game of chess, unfortunately some aspects of it are characteristic of this but the real winners are those that finish knowing that they have been true to themselves..

Only my opinion though!!

A round of a plause for this one... couldn't have said it any better!!

[rol]

<<Would not want to be dating a woman like that..

Can kind of see the logic in it though (why some women (as well as men) may do that kind of thing)..
Don't agree with that though even in the early stages of dating.
Maybe in the United Kingdom, we have a different definition of what dating is perhaps.
>>

I think for a girl you can have a lot of male interests around you.. guys asking for drinks, coffees etc, not dating as in an intimate stage , but getting to know stage... So it is very true by using the powers of attraction above the girl may get turned off by someone if he insists too much... the slow and steady one usually wins the race ;-)

[BIM]

I don't agree with the article. I do not like the generalizing of women and putting us all in one basket. These type of guys you are explaining are self centered and "cocky" so to speak.

I took this article and the woman being the one to have to do most/all of the chasing. If I show an interest in a guy, I sure as hell want some interest back. If he is so uninterested acting--I'll go somewhere else. Simple as that.

Relationships are two sided--not games. If you want to be with someone--let them know. If they don't like the way you are, they'll go somewhere else-pretty simple. That's part of life. If someone doesn't like me the way I am and like the attention I give them, then they need to find it somewhere else.

I want and honest, up-front guy. Not one that's going to play mind games with my feelings.

[valinors_sorrow]

I agree somewhat with Bim in the "gaminess" in the article but that really depends on how phoney it is as an operating system for someone, never mind the rustic language it was written in. Although it does seem to come from a gone-by era when painting girls in a naïve light was endearing and that is so not true today, it does address some interesting elements though.

As I see it, there are two elements right from the gate that people handle poorly in relationships (of all kinds but especially romantic ones) --- vulnerability and power. Being afraid of being vulnerable makes people dishonest at worst and inaccessible at best. To fear it means you have trust issues within you that are better resolved outside or before any major relationship. Lots of people here sound like they got into what I call power struggles about who is going to show their vulnerability first and that leads to the second area of grave mistakes.

Power is even more mishandled. And if you can't share it, then pick really really carefully since you will need your partner's permission and cooperation in order for you to have it all. Everyone in any sort of relationship has the ultimate power called "I quit" and ending it all. So keep that in mind when you push anyone around. Conversely those who addict to the relationship in the name of LUUUUURVE give that power up and that, folks, guarantees failure just about every time! No one likes dragging dead weight in a relationship and that goes for both genders. Making a commitment doesn't mean giving up your power either. It means you'll stay and attempt to work through the rough stuff when, not if, it shows up. In my marriage we each have power. Sometimes his prevails, sometimes mine... its traded back and forth. I think if you look at successful longterm marriages that is a consistent element to be found.

Both of these elements, vulnerability and power, benefit from growing up well (which I didn't! LOL) and/or learning from experience (so I did this instead! ). Its up to each of us how we plan on handling ourselves in these regards.

[Wildcat21]

GREAT STUFF VAL!! Learn from that people.

Hence we use the word SLOW!! Don't give up your day job!!

[JDOP]

This is an interesting point, but something in my mind doesn't seem to make the right connection. Is it wrong to love somebody unconditionally? Is it wrong to make a commitment like: "I would do anything for you"? Is it wrong to need somebody? I don't think it is wrong. It is a matter of trust, and communication. I don't think many people will come along in your life that you can love unconditionally. And when they do show up, you better not let them pass by because you need the "power". Love is not about playing games.

[SINGLE4]

GREAT STUFF VAL!!!! Learn from that people.

Hence we use the word SLOW!!! Don't give up your day job!!!!

I also agree with Val! It is easy to understand without the "targets" and "missions" wording.

Sorry Wildcat but... what do you mean by... Don't quit your day job? To whom is your comment directed?

[Skell]

What cat means is don't stop doing what you have been doing while single. Still maintain your own life.
Don't completely give yourself to your new partner.

Go slow. Have balance.

I think that is what he meant.

I don't think it was directed at anyone in particular!

[SINGLE4]

What cat means is dont stop doing what you have been doing while single. Still maintain your own life.
Dont completely give yourself to your new partner.

Go slow. Have balance.

I think that is what he meant.

i dont think it was directed at anyone in particular!

Tried to spread the love but couldn't!

Thank you for clarifying this!

I agree with your statement!

[valinors_sorrow]

This is an interesting point, but something in my mind doesn't seem to make the right connection. Is it wrong to love somebody unconditionally? Is it wrong to make a commitment like: "I would do anything for you"? Is it wrong to need somebody? I don't think it is wrong. It is a matter of trust, and communication. I don't think many people will come along in your life that you can love unconditionally. And when they do show up, you better not let them pass by because you need the "power". Love is not about playing games.

You raise a worthy point and this is how I view it. While I love unconditionally, I do not trust unconditionally. In fact to do so is really enabling, which can be terribly destructive to others. So there have been people I loved and still love that I no longer trust. It is based on their actions and should their actions change, my concerns about trust would too. If this is difficult to understand then you clearly haven't been around many dysfunctional, addicted or mentally ill people--- love alone won't work there.

I am as committed as the next person and have feelings for my husband that says I would die protecting him (and he for me) but that is based on many things besides a very conditional trust.

Needing is good, but it's a matter of proportion. All the eggs in one basket, too much overlap on the two circles, too much sharing/needing is a very big risk and usually reflects codependecy, a kind of mental illness all on its own. Lots of suffering there.

To love someone fully, its long been recognised that you must also love yourself, which comes with the impossible to escape mandate to take care of yourself. Losing track of that is not only not wise, its not healthy and not relationship-supportive in the long run either. In short, what good can you be to your mate if you allow your mate to ruin you? And who's fault is that anyway?

[SINGLE4]

You raise a worthy point and this is how I view it. While I love unconditionally, I do not trust unconditionally. In fact to do so is really enabling, which can be terribly destructive to others. So there have been people I loved and still love that I no longer trust. It is based on their actions and should their actions change, my concerns about trust would too. If this is difficult to understand then you clearly haven't been around many dysfunctional, addicted or mentally ill people--- love alone won't work there.

I am as committed as the next person and have feelings for my husband that says I would die protecting him (and he for me) but that is based on many things besides a very conditional trust.

Needing is good, but its a matter of proportion. All the eggs in one basket, too much overlap on the two circles, too much sharing/needing is a very big risk and usually reflects codependecy, a kind of mental illness all on its own. Lots of suffering there.

To love someone fully, its long been recognised that you must also love yourself, which comes with the impossible to escape mandate to take care of yourself. Losing track of that is not only not wise, its not healthy and not relationship-supportive in the long run either. In short, what good can you be to your mate if you allow your mate to ruin you? And who's fault is that anyway?

Great points! Maybe you should write an article or... a book!! I would buy it!

[mckenzie134]

Don't give up your life just let them join you and enjoy being part of your life. The cat is spot on. When you invest too much you can get hurt. Put in all you have but be weary and always keep a level head no matter what

[SAB123]

I know us guys have to do this but I believe the game playing is crap. If two people are attracted to each other and like each other then talk like adults screw the high school games?

[mogoverthemoon]

My friend, I have never heard such an intelligent comment in my life, it explains why I'm hopeless with girls and why so many prats get on so well with them, if it works well for me I'll buy you a pint and send it 1st class to u. chears!

[asking]

Interest Level - The Secret to Creating Attraction
By Bogie62
Copyright © 2006, Seduction Insider, Seduction Insider - Secrets To Attracting The Opposite Sex.

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You Like Her First... Big Mistake
A common theme in many of the threads in the Lounge goes like this, "I like this girl, how do I get her to like me?" The guy has been smitten by the love bug and now seeks advice on how to win her affections. No matter what advice is provided, the guy is already at a huge disadvantage.

Believe it or not, much of the art of seduction is control. I don't mean rugged male domination, but rather the ability to gain willing compliance. A woman is attracted to a man who is able to control himself and others, specifically her. There is a subtle tug-of-war that occurs between the guy and the girl, each testing the other in an attempt to gain the upper hand of control.

If the girl wins this battle, she'll put the guy in the friend zone and not consider him a potential sexual mate. The reason is simple; if he can't control her, he won't be strong enough to protect her. And protection is the most important attraction trigger in females. All the characteristics that women desire, such as confidence, leadership, etc., are just indicators of the man's ability to protect his mate. In the end, it all boils down to protection. It is hardwired through thousands of years of evolution and no female can change or control it, no matter how much they may deny it.


Why He's At A Disadvantage

He is disadvantaged because he has already lost control of the interaction. His emotional attachment is a powerful tool she will use to gain control over him. She'll make request and he'll jump at the chance to comply. He wants to impress and please her, but he unknowingly is giving her control and destroying his chance of seducing her.

Why do his efforts to impress and please her ultimately turn her off and put him in the friend zone?

If she can quickly and easily seduce his emotions, how resistant can he be to other females? If she chooses him as a sexual mate, she may easily lose his protection to another, more seductive female. If she can easily seduce him, so can other females, therefore he is not a strong potential mate.

This is why a lot of experts on attraction stress the importance of not showing too much interest too early in the seduction process. Your emotional feelings of desire are actually a display of weakness if revealed in the early stages of the seduction.


Her Interest Level Should Seem Higher Than Your Interest Level

If you want to win a girl over, you don't do it by showing how attracted you are to her. In fact, you should display a level of attraction that is slightly less than that shown by the girl. You always want her to perceive that she is slightly more attracted to you than you are to her. She should always believe that she has slightly more emotional investment in the relationship than you do.

This objective accomplishes two important things. rtant things. First, it puts her in a position to take the lead in the seduction. The art of seduction is the ability to get HER to seduce YOU. Once you create a small level of attraction in her, you encourage her to gradually escalate by staying one step behind her in emotional attachment. That is what we mean by YOU becoming the prize she must win. You are the prize because she has the greater investment. Whoever is less emotionally invested has control.

Secondly, her greater emotional investment helps to assure her continued participation in the seduction. If the seduction ends, she loses more than you because she has more invested. She is subconsciously compelled to continue. And the only way the seduction can continue is by escalating. As long as you maintain an emotional level slightly less than hers, she will automatically and subconsciously pull you through the whole process and right into her bed.


Hook A Set - Hook Your Target

There are two important events I look for in my interactions… two important hooks. The first is when I hook a set. When I enter a group of people that includes a girl I want to seduce, my first objective is to hook that set. The hook is the turning point where the group would rather have me there interacting with them than have me leave. In essence, it is the moment I become wanted by the group.

The second important event is when I hook my target. That is the moment when I have created enough interest and attraction in her that she is willing to display that attraction. It is the moment that I become wanted by her, not as a member of the group, but as an individual. Both of these events occur very quickly in the process. The set should be hooked within five minutes and the target should be hooked within fifteen minutes.

Once you have hooked your target, the game is really over unless you make a drastic error. She will lead the seduction from that point forward if you give her the chance. But remember, she will only lead as long as she believes she has more invested than you.

To summarize, if you start the seduction with a higher emotional investment, you begin at a huge disadvantage. Your emotional attachment will be used as weapon against you in the battle for control. Early displays of attraction are viewed as weakness that will usually turn her off, because if she can win you over easily, so can others. Always display a level of attraction that is slightly less than that displayed by your female target. As long as she believes that she has more invested than you, she will remain in the game and even take the lead.

Good Luck!

Bogie62

I am a biologist and have read a LOT Of books and articles about evolution and also written about it myself and I have NEVER seen any biologist argue that females are looking for a mate that is controlling. That's not to say that males are ever controlling, but they aren't all that way and they do it for their OWN purposes, not because it's attractive to females. Females look for mates who have good genes, for health, for example, and who can provide resources. Being controlling is not a useful resource.

This whole argument about how males and females evolved is just made up to justify an old fashioned technique of playing hard to get. Let me emphasize, it is not true. Women have been counseled to do this for centuries. It seems really funny to suggest that guys should also play hard to get. If she's not interested, how are you going to attract her by being even LESS interested than she is? If both sides are playing hard to get, how is anything ever going to happen?

[NeedKarma]

asking,
I believe that the advice offered by the OP is more geared to the high school/college crowd. That's how it appears to me anyway. I don't agree with any of it either.

[dreamguy]

I agree with the article for the most part. This is why I say that men need to wait 7 to 11 days to call a woman after getting her phone number. Make the date 5-8 days out. Wait 7-11 days again to make another date.

This rule is important because number 1 it shows her that you have a busy schedule. A hard working man is sexy. Let her do all the touching on the dates. Men must keep their hands to themselves.

The 7-11 day rule also helps men weed out the women who have an agenda to use them and waste their time. If a woman really digs you then she won't forget about you after 7 days.

Even when she invites you over to her house you need to turn her down even though you are not busy. Don't accept invitations into her place until you get 8 dates in with her. Wait for her to initiate sex.