[sjethro00]

My son and I were terminated from our jobs wednesday;

Normally I work in the morning shift, but I had requested to have the morning shift off.

I received a phonecall on my answering machine in the morning, our employer stated that the place I work had called him, and said I left notes the previous night and they were of a threatening nature, and the customers obtained them some how and requested my Son and I be banned from the building. I shoud state, we work for a cleaning company which cleans buildings to avoid some confusion.

I did leave notes the previous night, but one indicated another worker I had scheduled the day off, and I would not be in during the morning and to have a happy thanksgiving, the other was a letter to matinance indicating sinks were not draining, obviosly none of a threatening nature, or anything that would be questionable.

I have worked there for several years, and know everyone there very well, and thought the request was out of character, so I went to the place I work and had the person the owner had claimed had wanted me banned paged so I could talk to him in the entrance area.

When I spoke to the man, he didn't seem to know why my son and I were fired, only that we had been fired. I had stated the reason I was given, and he told me he would look into things, but he couldn't do anything else because it was at the request of our companies owner not him or the building we work at.

When I returned the phonecall to our employer, I asked what notes he was referring to, and he didn't answer me, he only said he will talk about it Monday.


I have my theorys about what actually happened and why it happened, but is this considered wrongful termination?

I had spoken to a lawyer today, and was told wrongful termination only applies to workers who are contracted and are terminated before the said date had expired. I don't know if that is true or not, because I found out the other information I had received from the lawyer was wrong.

[Fr_Chuck]

In most states in the US, not all, you can be fired at any time for any reason, other that protected rights ( sex, religion, and so on)

I could go in tomorrow and fire every red headed person in my office, fair, no, right, no, but I could do it. Heck I could go in and just fire every other person.

Wrongful termination normally refers into courts, ( not what it was 30 years ago) but to where you filed an action against the company and they fired you as a result of getting back at you.

And unless you have a specific employment contract or you are part of a labor union, unless you can work something out with your employment agency there is little you can do.

One police department I worked for, the new chief came in and about one month latter she filed about 5 or 6 people, to make room for people she wanted to work for her. No one had done anything wrong, but she just picked some that did not fit her mold and got rid of them.

So someone is lying, either the one person told your boss there were notes, or your boss is lying and wanted you gone to hire someone else for that spot.

And they don't have to show you notes, if they don't want to, as a matter of fact, he did not even have to tell you anything except you are fired.

Get him to put this in writing, since if you prove it is not true, then you have grounds for a law suit.

[excon]

Hello jethro:

Unless you were a member of a union or had an employment contract, you were employed "at will". That's a legal term meaning the employer can fire you for any reason other than discrimination.

excon

[sjethro00]

So, if If I'm getting this right; The owner could have fired me for any reason, but because he lied and if I can prove that he lied, I might have grounds for a lawsuit?

[excon]

Hello again, jethro:

Yup. He didn't have to lie to fire you. But, because he did, he damaged your reputation. That's actionable... People can't lie about other people. They can fire 'em, but they can't lie about 'em.

excon

[J_9]

That is called slander, and while it is actionable, understand that suing an employer can damage your employment reputation even more.

[Fr_Chuck]

Yep, he could have just said you are fired, no reason, and pay the unemployment. He could have fired you for wearing a blue cap, but he can't lie to fire you.

I was ordered by my boss in MO once to fire 2 of the front desk people, because they were too "fat" he wanted only pretty people working at the front desk. I thought that was discrimination at the time

I did not fire them but transferred them to a stock room.
I got fired for not firing them. And then my replacement fired them

[RichardBondMan]

Lies are told every day, probably every hour and every minute, it can be a written lie and that is libel and if it's spoken that is slander. But how are you going to prove it especially since it appears it was not written? Then if you prove it was slander then what's it worth to you, i.e. how much have you lost? You would have to prove your loss to a court, might be a lot and then again, might not be much? The lawyer, what's he going to charge you to handle it, will he take the case? From what I understand, my best guess is that most lawyers would simply chalk it up to something like 'well that's life". Now if it's written down somewhere and you can get the proof, then that's perhaps a good reason to pursue it - or if you find this really hurts you financially, emotionally, and reputation wise, then go for it, othewise, I would simply forget it, go about life without letting it bother you. I was once cleaning a stock broker's office in the winter and the office reported a fur coat missing, consequently the janitorial company owner asked me if I knew anything about it. Her even asking concerned me but heck she only asked. I knew I didn't take it, didn't call a lawyer, was not fired. I simply chuckled.

[sjethro00]

I'm actually going to pursue a lawyer so I can keep my unemployment insurance.

I've worked for the company for a long time, and know the owner always tries to stop former employee's from receiving unemployment insurance, so I have no choice to obtain a lawyer or at least fight for my benefits, as some form of income is better then no income.

So, I'll see what they say about pursuing damages for slander; knowing how the company operates, I'm sure my records indicate I did many things wrong, and was falsely written-up (I know this for a fact the company falsely accuses workers of wrongful actions after they are fired to justify there termination), so my repuation has probably been severely damaged, and it might be worth pursuing.

Thank you for all the help

[excon]

Hello again, jethro:

Before you start giving away your hard earned money to a lawyer, I would wait to see how the first level of appeal works out. It's been my experience that the unemployment people are not looking for reasons to find for the employer. Their sympathies lie with the claimant.

If you lose at that level, then you should consider hiring a lawyer. But, I'll bet you win.

excon

[sjethro00]

Hello again, jethro:

Before you start giving away your hard earned money to a lawyer, I would wait to see how the first level of appeal works out. It's been my experience that the unemployment people are not looking for reasons to find for the employer. Their sympathies lie with the claimant.

If you lose at that level, then you should consider hiring a lawyer. But, I'll bet you win.

excon

I just got done speaking to a Unemployment Insurance claims specialist, the owner of course is trying to deny Unemployment. He stated that he did disciplinary actions for me, and me alone, and stated I had quit as result; he also stated that my son was never involved in this, and was suppose to continue to go to work, and had not shown up since the incident, and also denied ever saying anything about us being "banned" from the building.

I played the phone message to the claims specialist, and the message clearly says my son was not to come into work along with myself.

I'll get a response this week, so hopefully this is sufficient information to prove the owner a lair in the eyes of the state unemployment insurance office

[sjethro00]

Well, another claims specialist was handling my son's case, and my son was unfortunate enough to give a statement before the employer, so the employer had known what to and what not to say when he gave his rebutal (I'm guessing the claims specialist told the employer what my sons statement consisted of, then allowed him to give a rebutal)

He gave a completely different statement as the previous one, and said that both of us were suspended until Monday and we never showed up since (as opposed to I had quit on Wednesday, and my son hadn't shown up to work since), he also said I entered the building Wednesday at a later time that I had, and was making a scene in front of customers, asking them repeatedly "Am I fired?"

We tried to explain to the claims specialist that this statement was completely different from the one he gave to the previous claims specialist, but she didn't and wouldn't take the name/number of the other claims special to varify the statements were different.

One was accepted, and the other looks like it will be denied. Isn't there a way to convince these people to use common sense, and to look at the fact two different statements were given?

~Also, the "threatning" note has surfaced finally; it was described as the note that I wrote to the morning person, but it was altered, they stated I wrote a P.S on the backside of the note, indicating everyone was going to be fired because major changes were going to happen

(which makes sense because the night before my termination, the owner called me and told me another worker was going to be fired... obviously he thought I would react to the news and do something that would justify my termination, and when I didn't he resorted to altering my notes)

[ScottGem]

I was going to tell you to preserve that answering machine tape. You NEED to make copies of it and store some in a safe place.

If your son's claims examiner is refusing to investigate then go over her head. Or make a formal appeal and produce the tape at the appeal hearing. Make sure you DOCUMENT everything you do. Ask the people you spoke to at the building you service if they will write down their version and sign as an affadavit.

I agree with excon, that you aren't quite at the point where you need an attorney. That will come if you plan on suing your employer for slander. And I would hold off on that until you can prove specific damages (like being blacklisted by other cleaners).

As far as your original question, wrongful termination is not the issue here. There are two issues. First the unemployment and the tape should take of that. Second, being able to get another job. You will have to see about that. I would get references from the company whose building you serviced.

[sjethro00]

I was thinking about contacting my claims specialist, and informing him that the employer gave a different statement to my sons claims specialist, but I thought it would make things worse and only anger them... as the lady handling my son's got upset over the fact he even suggested to contact the other specialist.

I also looked into appeals, and unfortunately its done via telephone, which really doesn't help much there, as if it was in person, I know the employer wouldn't show up. I'm not sure about an affadavit either, as he made the issue into whether my son quit or didn't.

Aside from common sense kicking in, and giving up a good paying job during the holiday season in favor of a small unemployment check, no one from the building would be able to prove it,

Nor the message, because the message itself doesn't state flat-out we're fired, it just says we are to be removed from the building, in a later phone call (not taped), he says he will contact us later about coming back (and never did)

I can't believe an employer would go through all this, just to deny someone a small source if income during the holidays... especially seeing is its not even his money, just so he can save a couple dollars on his taxes at the end of the year

[s_cianci]

As far as claiming "wrongful termination", your lawyer is correct. Unless there's a contract stipulating under what circumstances you can be terminated, your employment is considered "at will", meaning that it can be terminated by either the employer or the employee without notice and for any reason. You say you have your "theories" about "what actually happened and why." It may not hurt you to look into it as maybe you can rattle some cages and negotiate some type of settlement but don't count on any miracles.

[ScottGem]

The issue is providing proof. Your employer claimed that you were fired because of the alleged note. But if you get an affadavit from the builidng that there was no such complaint, that's more proof.

I would look more into the appeals process or speak to a supervisor. From what you have said, the employer can be caught giving different stories. Once you show that to unemployment you should win.

[sjethro00]

As expected, my son's unemployment claim was denied. We tried to get ahold of a supervisor, but were just told to talk to the claims specialist handling the claim, which is no help there as she was the one who denied the claim, and didn't acknowledge the fact two different statements were given. We finally got ahold of his claims specialist, and once again another statement was given by the owner;

The owner had said he quit, but then gave 6 pages worth of statements indicating every complaint other workers (the ones who took over our jobs) had said about us; The claims specialist said he was denied because he failed to call on Monday (even though the owner indicated he would call us monday). Even if he had called, it still would have been the same situation, as he had 6 pages of worth of false statements ready to go as "Plan-B". Somewhere it was mentioned that we both had to be fired, because if one wasn't, it would be a bad situation for them to return to work.


We have to do a formal appeal; I don't think a affadavit indicating no such letter or situation existed would work, as even if that's proven to be a lie created by the owner, he already has 6 pages worth of false statements ready to go.

And yes, I do no for a fact what had happened; The owner had been telling me another worker would be fired, and some insane story of how the person I had problems with would take over his job, and we would take over her job. The owner had no intentions of firing him, and doing that plan, this was only said to upset me, giving me a reason to write "notes of a questionable nature".