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jackross · Nov 21, 2006, 08:21 PM

Your right, What guy wants his face on the news for prosecuting a girl that lied about him in a sex case... ummmmm

How can you say I'm exaggerating the problem, if you can't see what I see all day.

If it wasn't a crime, I would not be talking about it.

Hell, Do you know what my job is? You will never guess.

talaniman · Nov 21, 2006, 09:58 PM

A lawyer

jackross · Nov 21, 2006, 10:34 PM

Not bad, but No
(more inside than that)

ashleysb · Nov 21, 2006, 11:20 PM

I agree and disagree with this post.
I agree that men are fooled into sex with underage girls quite a bit. I have heard many stories of an innocent guy at a bar that starts flirting with a girl. The girl is only about 15 or 16 but she got a fake ID to get in. So they hook up and have a one night stand. Then the girls parents find out... RAPE! The girl goes along to not get herself in trouble. I guess guys, it will have to come to checking two forms of ID before jumping in the sack with someone.
Teenage girls today don't even look their age. Just jump on myspace for a few moments and you can find hundreds of 14 year old girls that look 23. So I have to say, unless the guy was picking up girls at the local middle school, he might not have known.
I don't know if anyone caught the episode of 20/20 that was on a few weeks ago, but it was about catching online sex predators. I completely agree that these men were in the wrong with agreeing to meet up with a teenage girl, while her parents were out, but am I the only one who thinks its partially the girls fault? She was telling strange men that she was home alone, and that she wanted to have sex, and to bring condoms. Should young girls just be able to get away with this, and become the victim in this situation?
I just feel that some, not all, cases of statutory rape can be prevented. When these young girls are wearing buckets full of make-up and skimpy clothes with their breasts falling out, who is buying it for them? Who's not keeping tabs on them when they are at "a sleep over" with their friends, when they are truly at the local frat house? Who is not there when they are chatting on the internet or posting pictures online that are straight down the front of their shirts? I think parents sometimes need to realize that their daughters are not always perfect angels, and teach them they need to act their age.
Don't get me wrong, I know there are perverts out there who intentionally prey on young girls.
I disagree with putting up a website with these girls' names. If you can do that, then why don't all the women who have ever been cheated on just compile a whole list of men who treated them wrong? I think just a little "through the grapevine" will give them all the humilation they need.

jackross · Nov 22, 2006, 12:21 AM

Thank you for taking the time to explain your answer, your words are not lost on me.

The guys on the show 20/20 or DatelineNBC are perverts praying on girls, that's not the men I'm talking about, trust me. I wouldn't even begin to defend them in anyway.

I support your point on girls acting their age and parents realizing that their daughters are not all perfect angels. I told a mother about the actions of her Daughter and was blasted for sticking my nose in her life. Now the Daughter is set to go to court in 2 case's with mom on her arm, knowing full well the truth, and praying her daughter won't be charged.

Hey there is a TV show out called Cheaters, and some girls have made a web site to point out cheating boyfriends. (Hell, if you look youll see stuff on my space.)

I don't want these girls Humiliated by the net. If a girl lies in court 2 times then I feel this step should be in affect. A life is a life, A crime is a crime. Someone may end up doing time. Why be soft on crime. Will crime be soft on you.

Sentra · Nov 22, 2006, 05:09 AM

Are you saying it should be your place to dictate what is considered the truth or a false accusation, so that you may go on with your plans of making a database dedicated to the exposure of people who 'cry wolf'?

Just trying to get it straight.

*Edit*

Just to add, if these men are found to be active in some other kind of illegal activity (as you mentioned in your original post) that is their own fault, and should take responsibility for the risk of being around the wrong people. Don't defend their actions and decisions; 'guilty by association'. And by the way, parents have a right to deal with their kids any way that they legally can and know how, and even though we may not agree with what they do it wasn't your place to 'expose' the daughter to her mother, UNLESS you knew the family and have been involved with them already. I am not soft on crime. What is the sentencing for a rape conviction in your area? Is the penalty strong or long enough to require your way of prevention? Do they get off with community service and 3 months in jail, possibly less? Elaborate on that.

ScottGem · Nov 22, 2006, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by jackross

Your right, What guy wants his face on the news for prosecuting a girl that lied about him in a sex case... ummmmm

How can you say I'm exaggerating the problem, if you can't see what I see all day.

If it wasn't a crime, I would not be talking about it.

Hell, Do you know what my job is? You will never guess.

Filing a false police report is a crime. Making false accusations of rape could be considered libel. If it's a crime then work towards PROSECUTING it. Don't resort to vigilantism.

As to why I think you are exaggerating, in NYC for 2005 there were approx 3600 rapes reporting for over 19.25 million people. That works out to less than 1 rape for every 5000 people. Now lets apply that same rate to your area. Brampton, is a city of about 325,000. Even if you include the whole greater Toronto area, you still have less than 2 million people. That works out to 400 rapes or a little more than 1 per day (only 65 for Brampton itself).

In an earlier note you stated: "Sorry this kind of thing is happening repeatedly in a court room daily". Based on my analysis that would mean that just about every rape reported (in the Greater Toronto area) falls into this category and that clearly cannot be true. Even more, Brampton itself, wouldn't have a rape case every day. So you have to be exaggerating the problem. If, as you state it happens repeatedly every day, then Brampton would have at least 1 rape for every 900 people. That would make it one of the most unsafe cities for women in the world. Is it any wonder I think you are exaggerating?

So what is your job?

jackross · Nov 22, 2006, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by Sentra

Are you saying it should be your place to dictate what is considered the truth or a false accusation, so that you may go on with your plans of making a database dedicated to the exposure of people who 'cry wolf'?

Just trying to get it straight.

*Edit*

Just to add, if these men are found to be active in some other kind of illegal activity (as you mentioned in your original post) that is their own fault, and should take responsibility for the risk of being around the wrong people. Don't defend their actions and decisions; 'guilty by association'. And by the way, parents have a right to deal with their kids any way that they legally can and know how, and even though we may not agree with what they do it wasn't your place to 'expose' the daughter to her mother, UNLESS you knew the family and have been involved with them already. I am not soft on crime. What is the sentencing for a rape conviction in your area? Is the penalty strong or long enough to require your way of prevention? Do they get off with community service and 3 months in jail, possibly less? Elaborate on that.

Nope, just false accusations only, based on what is in a public record.

I am not defending guilt by association, and men around the wrong people.

You say it was not my place to expose the daughter to the mother, wow I don't see your point. If the daughter was going to kill her self would you tell the mother? Now if she is going to break the law, would tell her? At what point should she get help. My focus was on prevention.

Rape sentencing is a big deal here, no man should take it lightly, if not guilty.
The penalty for Rape is is about 5 years for underage, and up. Your name goes on a public database. You have to report to police for life. You cannot go near schools or speak to anyone under 18. (In jail you suffer beatings at the hands of staff and other inmates. Who deal out there brand of justice.)

ScottGem · Nov 22, 2006, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by jackross (via PM)

4 case's is too much, a life is a life
Not every case but some due, I see it at work.

Do you think I'm a bad person for what I'm trying to do?

I feel that knowone care about what I see at work. This would force the system to take basic steps to put safe guard in place.

So you are now stating this has happened 4 times (not repeatedly every day). So you WERE exaggerating.

Out of how many reported rapes? Over what period?

No I don't think you are a bad person, just misguided. You perceive a problem and want to do something about it. Its just that your solution is also a problem.

Instead of trying to force people to put safe guards in place but a questionable solution, work towards getting the safeguards in place.

excon · Nov 22, 2006, 09:57 AM

Hello again, jack:

Yeah, please keep us in the loop. It's kind of like hiding the last episode of your favorite soap.

"At work", huh? You're a jail guard.

And, this does have the ring of a soap. Because, in the real world, this is all academic, isn't it? You found "this group" who wants to work on it... Right. Where are they from, Nigeria? Did they send you a check they want you to cash??

If, indeed, you ARE on the inside and you see some ugly stuff, how come you don't stand up for all the non-violent marijuana smokers who come your way, because you are soooo inside? If you want to help a BIG, HUGE, LARGE group of people deserving of your help - help them!

There is no web site. There's never going to be. That resides in your fantasies. There's only an angry person, who has an idea, like every tom, fred and harry, without a clue how to bring it to fruition.

More than likely, you're soooo inside, because you had some chick lie on you, and you're a CONVICT!

excon

jackross · Nov 22, 2006, 11:05 AM

Hi, Excon

Umm Jail Guard, dam you good.

Sorry I'm not a convict, but thanks for the crazy offer. I have a wife who agree with some of the post's (AshelySB) out here on the subject, and feels that I maybe going to far out to prove something too.

Excon, your right, I am angry, but I'm also doing something about it.

Thank you for understanding that I do see some ugly stuff,
In canada you get a fine for smoking marijuana in public, no jail time. They have changed the law on it. (You cannot ship it, Grow it, or Sell it.)

Well I guess posting a link here when it's done would, smack you in the face about fantasies and soap stories.

ScottGem · Nov 22, 2006, 02:47 PM

First, I do not carry on help or discussions in PMs. PMs should be reserved for correspondence of a personal nature. I had hoped you would get that message when I answered your previous PM in the public forum.

I'm not going to reproduce your latest PM in its entirety for my own reasons. But you did not answer my questions. You say there are 4 cases currently in the court. Are these 4 cases dealing with repeat complaints or are they 4 rape cases? If they are 4 repeat complaints, then out of how many rape cases over what period? Even if its just 4 rape cases again the question is over what period?

Either way, it still indicates an exaggeration from your original statement about it happening repeatedly every day.

jackross · Nov 22, 2006, 03:29 PM

Right now in front of me. The answer is 4 & all have a history of fasle complaints.

The time frame is about 2 years a part. You want the case file#

There are more going on in other court rooms I'm sure, but I'm not working in them right now. So I can only tell you what I see currently. Sorry if you feel I'm over stating this.

In canada we do not have this law here

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...=f:publ079.108

ScottGem · Nov 22, 2006, 05:32 PM

So, over a space of 2 years you have 4 cases involving false complaints. You can't tell us if there are others, because you haven't checked. You can't tell us out of how many rape cases, because you haven't checked. Yet you are willing to call this a major problem.

Now you say these 4 cases involve false complaints. How do you know this? Are the complainants being prosecuted for making false complaints are are the defendants claiming the complaints were false?

If the complainants are being prosecuted, then what's the issue, they are getting what they deserved. If the defendants are claiming this, then what proof exists?

What I think is you just happened to get hit with these 4 cases all coming through the system at the same time. You were struck by the similarity and how the men were allegedly being victimized. This got your dander up.

But I think this is just an anomaly and you are way overstating the problem and going off half-cocked.

jackross · Nov 22, 2006, 05:54 PM

No sorry you mis-understand, 4 cases with about 2 years between the same girls coming back in front of the court, with different, victims claiming Rape. 3 Other case's last week, but different return dates between them.

ScottGem · Nov 22, 2006, 06:57 PM

You still haven't answered my questions. You still haven't told us over what period the 4 cases cover. You also haven't told us how many rape cases were reported during that time. And you still haven't dealt with whether the girls are being prosecuted or how it came out they there are repeat complainants.

Sentra · Nov 23, 2006, 06:51 AM

Have the MEN taken time to file charges against them for false accusations?

ScottGem · Nov 23, 2006, 12:18 PM

Comments on this post
jackross agrees: I Support this fully, but time and funds are not on their side. Their just happy to get their life back. :)

As for funds, there should be no funds involved. Filing a false police report is a criminal offense. They only need press charges through the prosecutor's office.

Did it ever occur to you that they would not want the publicity? Any database would have to include a record of the people they accused.

jackross · Nov 23, 2006, 01:31 PM

The prosecutor is not interested in going after false statements.

Your right about the publicity, I just spoke to some of the men involed and they express to me their concerns about this project. This is hard to balance out.

ScottGem · Nov 23, 2006, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by jackross

The prosecutor is not interested in going after false statements.

your right about the publicity, I just spoke to some of the men involed and they express to me their concerns about this project. This is hard to balance out.

And what reason does the prosecutor give? I don't know how it works in Canada, but in the US, we have ELECTED District Attorneys who decide what is prosecuted and what isn't. This would become a campaign issue.

But maybe the reason is that the prosecutor doesn't think this is a major problem (as I do) so its not worth his office's time.