[Gemini54]

To Jake2008 and amicon -- Thanks for your support. I am hoping to sleep tonight. I average about 2-3 hours a night so far. I have started eating again, which is a step in the right direction.

I am trying to come to terms with him longing for a child so much that he would step out of our marriage to get it and really, the thought of some woman out there carrying my husband's child is almost unfathomable.

I am terrified of the legalities. As soon as I get a better grip of everything, I will call for legal advice. So much to think about. Never thought I'd be facing something this lfe altering at this point in my life. I was actually hoping to travel and take some courses. Life!

Rivka, I was astonished when I read your post. I thought it MUST have be a joke. And not much astonishes me these days.

Putting myself in your shoes, I simply could not imagine how I would respond. The consequences are absolutely life altering whichever course of action you decide to take.

It's frightening really, because many of us (including myself) believe we have good relationships. But it seems that often something unknown is lurking beneath the surface waiting to be revealed. I guess it could happen to any of us - we think we know our partners, but do we really?

I don't know how you make a sensible decision quickly about something like this - it's so difficult to understand the consequences and sort through the options at such short notice.

My advice, take a break to think - it may be wise to move out of your family home. Speak to your friends and family and get their support. Procure the services of the best lawyer possible. Keep talking to your counselor.

I know that a baby is imminent but move to your own timetable, not your husband's or the baby's. Your husband has made his choice, you need time and space to make yours.

Please keep us posted and let us know what happens.

[hheath541]

Once again, I will suggest you take a couple days for yourself. Go to a spa or a hotel. Schedule yourself a massage. Spend a couple days with a friend or sister or someone you can talk to and who will lend you a shoulder to cry on.

If you can't take a couple days, at least take a couple hours. Get out of the house. Hang out with a girl friend. Get a massage. Take a walk.

No matter what you do, you need to find a way to take some time for yourself. Taking time to relax and talk to someone will help you gain a little perspective, and maybe even help you sleep better.

Counseling is a good step, but it doesn't replace talking to someone who really knows you.

[Rivka]

Hi Jake2008 -- Thanks so much for the kind offer of coffee and talk. We live about 4 hours apart by car along the 401. Might be a bit of a haul.

It is 5AM Sunday morning and of course, I cannot sleep.

[Jake2008]

I've been awake all night as well. Figured I may as well put on a pot of coffee, which I did. Then I hear a loud BANG! And lo and behold, the guy who delivers our newspaper ran into the back of my truck. Lol Not a great start to the day huh?

Rivka, have you thought about keeping a diary of all this? Writing out your thoughts and feelings when the waves come over you? People get tired of hearing me say that, but it really is a good idea to get it all out on paper, and at least you will feel some control over it all. I buy little notebooks from the buck store, and have a stack filled. Some go back quite a few years, and when I read them now, I realize things that I wouldn't have, had I not taken pen to paper.

It's worth a shot. May help you organize your thoughts too, and help you to remember things that you want to speak to your husband or lawyer about later on.

Have you decided whether you are going to meet the surrogate yet? Has your husband talked to you more about this. What is his mood with you.

Keep the faith, you will get through this one way or the other.

[Rivka]

Hi Gemini 54 -- I wish it was a joke. My life is really in such a turmoil. I keep waiting for a miracle to come along and save me.

As for the relationship -- I always thought it was amazing. I was so grateful to have met such a wonderful man. It is my second marriage (his first) and up until recently (for the last 15 years), I felt that he was God's gift to me, for having had such a hard time in my younger years. Which makes it all the more difficult. If he was an a**, this would definitely be my ticket out of here. But it has never been that way. Until now...

I will be looking at legal advice soon. I am reluctant to move out of the house until then. I don't want to be accused of desertion and then forfeit assets.

[Rivka]

Jake2008 -- All the conversations I have with my husband are about this. Sometimes the decibel level gets really high. It is amazing his perspective on this. He claims he was doing me a favor because I had always felt guilty that I could not give him children. (I don't think I was that overwhelmed with guilt, but, perspective is everything). Anything can be rationalized away if you choose it to be.

Yes, I am making plans to meet the surrogate. We spoke on the phone yesterday, really briefly. Any suggestions of questions I should ask her? Obviously, I do not want to upset her, she is, after all a pregnant lady. And I really don't think she knows how this has impacted on me. She is, I think, an innocent on the other side of this debacle.

[Jake2008]

That is odd in itself that she wouldn't wonder, or ask your husband about you, just to be certain the baby would be going to a two parent, solid home. Maybe he has implied, or maybe she assumed, that this was what you both wanted.

I'm thinking that you shouldn't ask any questions except simple things, like how are you feeling, does she have a due date, does she have children herself. Nothing, in other words, to imply in any way, shape or form that you are onboard with this, thus culpable.

If you should decide to leave, if it appears as though you showed interest, concern, and ongoing contact with her, I would think a judge would see you as bailing on the arrangements, and that wouldn't be good.

If there are any papers that he has signed, read them, and make sure your signature and name is not included. I don't know your husband, but if he can plan to have a baby without your knowledge, he's capable of forging your signature too.

If she is a bright woman, she will likely as you how you feel about all of this. Let your husband do the talking.

Think of it as gathering information from the two of them, without giving any information, particularly that you are in favour of this arrangement.

All these things will help you down the road should you decide to leave. It will also be easier for your lawyer to assess everything, knowing that you did not imply in any way that this was okay, or that you had accepted anything.

It would be preferable if you caught a cold and didn't want to spread it around, thus avoid the meeting, but, you may want to go just to get information. God only knows what legal things have already been done, including financial payment to this woman.

I do not think she is innocent. She is negotiating (or has negotiated) a business deal with your husband. She would likely have had legal council herself, or at the very least some counselling prior to the procedure being done. I think it is fair to say that she likely thinks you are as happy as he is.

Let her think you are a hard a** for asking questions about the legalities, and the contract. You will need this information. I have a feeling that you are going to learn more than you want to.

Stay cool, emotionally detached, and observant. Make notes when you get home while it is all fresh in your mind so you don't forget anything.

Until you know where you stand legally, it isn't a good idea to give the impression that you are fine with this, or not fine with this. Stay neutral.

[QLP]

Oh my word I don't know how you're managing not to hit him with something heavy. Is he coming to counselling with you? Surely he at least needs to understand the impact this is having on you and he doesn't seem to if he is saying he has done you a favour.

I would ask what made her agree to do so without making it sound like it's a problem (if you can manage to do that). Something along the lines of, 'I find it amazing that women agree to have babies for other people, can I ask you what made you happy to do this?' If it sounds like you're sort of praising her maybe she will open up as to what your husband said to her and what her motivations are without feeling threatened.

I fully understand that you don't want to upset her and I admire you for thinking of her feelings in the midst of your own turmoil. There must be a million things you would really like to know but I expect a softly-softly approach where you try to get to know her a bit and see what comes across might actually yield the best results.

Gosh I wish there was something more helpful I could think of saying but this really is such a biggie. We are all rooting for you. Xx

[Jake2008]

'I find it amazing that women agree to have babies for other people, can I ask you what made you happy to do this?'

Brilliant question to ask Q. I would love to be a fly on the wall.

[Rivka]

Thanks for all the advice.

No, my husband is currently not part of the counselling. I have only been once and I really want to do this alone right now. I think it is important for me not to have him there at this point. Maybe later I will request that he comes along. Not yet, though.

He now absolutely knows how hideous this has been for me. It has been intolerable and strained here, in a household that used to be happy. In fact, in a really honest moment, he admitted that he'd love to have his old life back. That, however, is gone, forever. No matter how this turns out, our relationship has been alterted permanently.

I am going to meet the surrogate without him. I want to hear everything without her looking at him for cues.

I know for certain that there is not a contract in place. They met with a lawyer who advised them, but surrogacy is not recognized in MI, so nothing could be written up. It actually is not legal for her to even be accepting money to do this, but she has. Quite a tangled web.

I am certainly nervous about the meeting. I will take notes and keep everyone apprised. I appreciate the input. It is sustaining me.

[amicon]

Best of luck and take good care of yourself.

[Synnen]

It's actually illegal in EVERY state for a woman to take money for a child--adoption laws are VERY clear on that. And surrogacy, unfortunately, most of the time falls under adoption law.

Generally the agreements are that the couple (or in this case, your husband) agree to pay for food and board for the surrogate, and medical expenses for her and the baby. Gifts can be given, as long as they are not in the form of cash. He could buy her a Tiffany lamp or the first comic book ever to have Superman in it, or whatever--but cannot give her cash. Generally, what has to happen is that the adoptive parents have to pay the bills directly for the surrogate--they cannot give her money to pay them herself.

This is to prevent people from selling babies.

Keep going to counseling. You're in my thoughts and prayers often, and I hope you keep us posted as to what's happening with you and this situation.

[Jake2008]

Here is a legal web page explaining the Michigan laws on surrogate contracts, and/or aggreements.

HRC | Michigan Surrogacy Law

Here are the surrogacy laws by state:

Surrogacy Laws by State: AllAboutSurrogacy.com

[Gemini54]

Hi Gemini 54 -- I wish it was a joke. My life is really in such a turmoil. I keep waiting for a miracle to come along and save me.

As for the relationship -- I always thought it was amazing. I was so grateful to have met such a wonderful man. It is my second marriage (his first) and up until recently (for the last 15 years), I felt that he was God's gift to me, for having had such a hard time in my younger years. Which makes it all the more difficult. If he was an a**, this would definitely be my ticket out of here. But it has never been that way. Until now....

I will be looking at legal advice soon. I am reluctant to move out of the house until then. I don't want to be accused of desertion and then forfeit assets.

Heh, I wasn't suggesting you leave for good, just take a break so you can get some head-space. It sounds pretty intense at your place and I would be tempted to put some breathing space between you and him.

The situation with the surrogate sounds extremely complicated - I would advise you to get legal advice BEFORE you meet with her. Otherwise any meeting you have, i.e. your mere presence in her home, may be construed as an acceptance, on your part, of the agreement.

You need to be very cautious, at this point, in case it all goes to court.

PS I wonder what sort of fantasy world your husband lives in, that he thought you would accept all of this?

[NeedKarma]

15 years of marriage and the issue of having children doesn't get discussed? Weird.

[QLP]

Thanks for all the advice.

No, my husband is currently not part of the counselling. I have only been once and I really want to do this alone right now. I think it is important for me not to have him there at this point. Maybe later I will request that he comes along. Not yet, though.

He now absolutely knows how hideous this has been for me. It has been intolerable and strained here, in a household that used to be happy. In fact, in a really honest moment, he admitted that he'd love to have his old life back. That, however, is gone, forever. No matter how this turns out, our relationship has been alterted permanently.

I am going to meet the surrogate without him. I want to hear everything without her looking at him for cues.

I know for certain that there is not a contract in place. They met with a lawyer who advised them, but surrogacy is not recognized in MI, so nothing could be written up. It actually is not legal for her to even be accepting money to do this, but she has. Quite a tangled web.

I am certainly nervous about the meeting. I will take notes and keep everyone apprised. I appreciate the input. It is sustaining me.

Everything you are saying suggests you are being amazingly level headed and strong despite being hit by an emotional juggernaut. Hang on in there.

[Rivka]

15 years of marriage and the issue of having children doesn't get discussed? Weird.

I never said the issue of children had not been discussed, explored, tried, etc. but it has not been something we've dealt with for a number of years and considering my age, it seemed that it was now a moot point. It is this particular situation that has blindsided me.

[Rivka]

Jake2008 -- Thanks for the legal information. I have printed it for my file.

QLP -- Thanks for the emotional boost. I really feel neither strong nor level headed. I have moments of complete despair and hysteria.

I am somewhat better today -- slept more, eating a little. Great weight loss plan: I've lost 10 lbs.

[Jake2008]

You're welcome Rivka, the more information you have the better.

Glad you slept better too.

Keep posting, I'll be checking on you.