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OvenFrank · Nov 18, 2006, 12:09 PM

Hello,

We have a Frigidaire slide-in ceramic smooth top range. It is a Canadian model CPES389CA1. Seemingly no parts manufacturer on the Internet knows about this model. The range is five years old and it had less than normal use.
Now there is no heat from bake or broil element anymore. Removing the back panel and checking for 240V at the element's end - no voltage. Their conductivity is good.
Heater probe resistance (supposedly 1100 Ohm at ambient temperature?? ) is right on.
All control panel functions (selecting Celsius/Fahrenheit, set baking temp, close door, clock, timer etc.) are OK.
No error code is shown. Convection element and fan works.
Wiring diagram downloaded from Frigidaire shows a thermal breaker in the temperature probe circuit.
(scratching my head) Anybody know how to test this breaker?
EOC is expensive ($262+tax+shipping at Sears) - and no returns.

Any idea appreciated,

OvenFrank · Nov 18, 2006, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by OvenFrank

Hello,

We have a Frigidaire slide-in ceramic smooth top range. It is a Canadian model CPES389CA1. Seemingly no parts manufacturer on the Internet knows about this model. The range is five years old and it had less than normal use.
Now there is no heat from bake or broil element anymore. Removing the back panel and checking for 240V at the element's end - no voltage. Their conductivity is good.
Heater probe resistance (supposedly 1100 Ohm at ambient temperature???) is right on.
All control panel functions (selecting Celsius/Fahrenheit, set baking temp, close door, clock, timer etc.) are OK.
No error code is shown. Convection element and fan works.
Wiring diagram downloaded from Frigidaire shows a thermal breaker in the temperature probe circuit.
(scratching my head) Anybody know how to test this breaker?
EOC is expensive ($262+tax+shipping at Sears) - and no returns.

Any idea appreciated,

Here is the wiring diagram from Frigidaire.

andrewcocke · Nov 18, 2006, 01:57 PM

From the looks of it, both of thoese elements engergize through the board. In these cases, the only thing to check is any and every switch that would cause the element to drop out.
Checking the thermal breaker is a good start. Unless the diagram gives you a description of test points to test the breaker, you may just need to unplug it from the board and ohm it out. It should read closed. If it does, then double check any switches, such as door switches.

Basically you are trying to find out if the board is getting all of the proper commands to heat. If it is and you are still not heating, then you could have a faulty control board. Verify that there are no loose wires as well.

OvenFrank · Nov 18, 2006, 07:24 PM

andrewcocke: From the looks of it, both of those elements energize through the board. In these cases, the only thing to check is any and every switch that would cause the element to drop out.
Checking the thermal breaker is a good start. Unless the diagram gives you a description of test points to test the breaker, you may just need to unplug it from the board and ohm it out. It should read closed. If it does, then double check any switches, such as door switches.

Basically you are trying to find out if the board is getting all of the proper commands to heat. If it is and you are still not heating, then you could have a faulty control board. Verify that there are no loose wires as well.

Hi Andrew,

Thanks. According to the diagram the thermal breaker should be on the wire somewhere.
No luck to find it. There is nothing on this board that can be removed.
Question: measuring between the points P7 L2 IN (Red) and P1 L1 (Black) the meter reads 120V. Is that OK?

Back to you,

andrewcocke · Nov 18, 2006, 08:02 PM

The measurements between L1 and L2 should be 220-240 volts. If you were reading the same potential, then you would be reading zero volts.

A reading from either L1 or L2 to ground or neutural should read 120 volts. However a reading between L1 and L2 of 120 suggest to me that one of the hot legs is grounded out. However if this were the case, then once you throw power in the cord, it should short out. I would check to make sure that your cord is connected properly.

Its almost like L2 and N got crossed over. But how. The only thing I can think of now is a cord installed improperly, but since its been working up to this point, that doesn't seem proboble. You could verify the incoming voltage at the outlet, between L1 and L2 there you should get 240 volts, and 120 volts on each leg to N.

120 volts between L1 and L2 seems like a problem. It is possible that something on the board shorted go ground, now the L1 or L2 potential is serving as a ground.

Try this, unhook the L1 and L2, check for 240 volts on the wire (or harness).

I must apologize if Im not making much since, I presently have about 3 girls around me begging for ice cream now.

OvenFrank · Nov 18, 2006, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by andrewcocke

The measurements between L1 and L2 should be 220-240 volts. If you were reading the same potential, then you would be reading zero volts.

A reading from either L1 or L2 to ground or neutral should read 120 volts. However a reading between L1 and L2 of 120 suggest to me that one of the hot legs is grounded out. However if this were the case, then once you throw power in the cord, it should short out. I would check to make sure that your cord is connected properly.

Its almost like L2 and N got crossed over. But how. The only thing I can think of now is a cord installed improperly, but since its been working up to this point, that doesn't seem probable. You could verify the incoming voltage at the outlet, between L1 and L2 there you should get 240 volts, and 120 volts on each leg to N.

120 volts between L1 and L2 seems like a problem. It is possible that something on the board shorted go ground, now the L1 or L2 potential is serving as a ground.

Try this, unhook the L1 and L2, check for 240 volts on the wire (or harness).

I must apologize if I'm not making much sense, I presently have about 3 girls around me begging for ice cream now.

Back from the kitchen...

Well, that is how it is. Incoming from receptacle Black/Red 240V. (120V on each side Black/White, Red/White.) Disconnect Red and Black from EOC and measure 120V.
This is the problem (says this ignorant man). If the wiring diagram is true there should be 240V between them.
Checking convection element --- right on, 120V as it should be. Would this say to us that the red wire is OK?
Should I get a piece of wire and use it as ground (connected to the neutral terminal in the back) to get a reading on the Black wire (L1)?

Say hello to the girls.

andrewcocke · Nov 18, 2006, 09:12 PM

If you have 240 volts at L1 and L2 where the power comes in, (the cord) but 120 volts between P7 L2 and P1 L1 then it sounds like you have a short somewhere. Perhaps a terminal has burned off, the wire that is leading to the control board is touching ground.

I can think of no other way, if there is 240 volts coming in on the proper terminals, then there should be 240 volts standing between P7 and P1 (that is a 1 correct, it's a little hard to read).

If that's the case, then the elemens most certainly won't work because they require 240 volts to work properly.

andrewcocke · Nov 18, 2006, 09:16 PM

Oh and yes, the convection element should only require 120 volts. However you said earlier that it is working. It's the broiler and the bake element that are not working.

OvenFrank · Nov 18, 2006, 09:53 PM

Hello Andrew,

There is no Voltage on the Red-3 coming into the EOC. Somewhere the red wire from the receptacle is bifurcating - one goes to the top elements (they are all OK) and the other to the EOC.
Comparing the wiring diagram and the working parts: door latch, latch motor, convection fan, and bottom warmer ((convection element was OK until "sparks were flying" (did I just blew away the diode?)) are working. All these parts probably work from the Black wire and need only 120V.
The other circuit containing the bake and broil elements need 240V, because there is 120V only they refuse to warm up. The confusing part is: why P2 and ground (I used a piece of wire connected to the range's back white pole) gives exactly 0. What do you think?

The wire bundle from the back runs in the space between the top elements and the oven. It is about 5" high. The wires are sufficiently short that even the front panel can't be pulled away from the range.
How is this done by the repairman? Do they disconnect everything to pull the wires out?

I just can't give up yet- although curiosity can be deadly.

Thanks,

Oven Ron · Dec 27, 2006, 10:30 AM

Hello OvenFrank:
I have a Frigidaire CPES389CC1 whose oven bake and broil elements won't heat up - starting this morning when my wife needs to do a lot of baking for guests in the next couple of days. The Frigidaire service guy here in Calgary is coming by tomorrow to check it out, and he thinks it's the "clock unit" which costs around $700 for the part. Did you ever find the problem with your stove? This seems like it should be a easier fix than replacing the entire control unit. Especially at this cost. The stove is 3 years old and this part is not under warranty now.
Please help!
-OvenRon

cyberslider · Dec 27, 2006, 11:02 AM

To test a breaker is easy with no power on the breaker put an ohm meter across it if the breaker is good and closed you should see a short if the breaker is bad then you will see an open

cyberslider · Dec 27, 2006, 11:04 AM

Myself I would suspect the temperature probe which looks like a thermal coupler is you problem more than the breaker

repairmn79 · Dec 30, 2006, 02:24 PM

Hi Ron, you are having the same problem that I just diagnosed on another slide in range that is only 4 yrs old. I have seen this problem before. I believe that if you look at the wiring diagram and check the wires going to the board you will find (as I did) that the first 2 red wires on the board are backwards, IE the P7 and P8 have the wrong wires on them, they are the same colour and this is what throws you off the trail. If the clock is changed without rectifiing this problem the clock will burnout again in a short time.
Good luck with your repair
Brian

OvenFrank · Dec 31, 2006, 11:05 PM

Quote :"Hi Ron, you are having the same problem that I just diagnosed on another slide in range that is only 4 yrs old. I have seen this problem before. I believe that if you look at the wiring diagram and check the wires going to the board you will find (as I did) that the first 2 red wires on the board are backwards, IE the P7 and and P8 have the wrong wires on them, they are the same colour and this is what throws you off the trail. If the clock is changed without rectifiing this problem the clock will burnout again in a short time.
Good luck with your repair"
Brian

Hello Brian - Is this E-mail directed to me or to Ron? The clock is very hard to get. It was ordered 5 weeks ago - still waiting for it.
Are you saying that the P7 and P8 are switched?
Thanks,
OvenFrank

OvenFrank · Dec 31, 2006, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by Oven Ron

hello OvenFrank:
I have a Frigidaire CPES389CC1 whose oven bake and broil elements won't heat up - starting this morning when my wife needs to do a lot of baking for guests in the next couple of days. The Frigidaire service guy here in Calgary is coming by tomorrow to check it out, and he thinks it's the "clock unit" which costs around $700 for the part. Did you ever find the problem with your stove? This seems like it should be a easier fix than replacing the entire control unit. Especially at this cost. The stove is 3 years old and this part is not under warranty now.
Please help !!
-OvenRon

Hi Ron,
The Frigidaire authorized dealer (here in Waterloo, ON.) said that one of the EOC's ("Clock") relay is gone. The Clock has to be replaced. Sears has it for C$ 300. I ordered from the dealer because of the help he gave us to diagnose the problem. --- There is no way to figure out this kind of problem without a manual for the EOC. -- After 5 weeks, we are still waiting for the part. He said if they cannot find it, Frigidaire will replace the stove. Yeah, right.
Hope this help.

repairmn79 · Jan 2, 2007, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by OvenFrank

Quote :"Hi Ron, you are having the same problem that I just diagnosed on another slide in range that is only 4 yrs old. I have seen this problem before. I believe that if you look at the wiring diagram and check the wires going to the board you will find (as I did) that the first 2 red wires on the board are backwards, IE the P7 and and P8 have the wrong wires on them, they are the same colour and this is what throws you off the trail. If the clock is changed without rectifiing this problem the clock will burnout again in a short time.
Good luck with your repair"
Brian

Hello Brian - Is this E-mail directed to me or to Ron? The clock is very hard to get. It was ordered 5 weeks ago - still waiting for it.
Are you saying that the P7 and P8 are switched?
Thanks,
OvenFrank

Hi Ovenfrank, yes, if this is the same range as I have been looking at and I have seen it twice now. The wires were put on backwards in the factory, Check those wires very carefully as simply changing the clock will guarantee you will be needing one again in 2 or 3 years. Because of how it was wired it still worked but the relay was allways energised and it finally burned out. At least that is what I have surmised. Good luck
Brian

OvenFrank · Jan 6, 2007, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by repairmn79

Hi Ovenfrank, yes, if this is the same range as I have been looking at and I have seen it twice now. The wires were put on backwards in the factory, Check those wires very carefully as simply changing the clock will gaurantee you will be needing one again in 2 or 3 years. Because of how it was wired it still worked but the relay was allways energised and it finaly burned out. At least that is what I have surmised. Good luck
Brian

Hello Brian,

Thank you for the tip. You must be right. The EOC which we ordered on Nov 7, 2006 has still not arrived. Now, the company telling us there is 250 of them are on the back order. 250?
Is there any responsibility laying with Frigidaire? - Sure. Are they going to do anything about it? - No, of course. There is no service bulleting released to the repair shops.

Cheers,

OvenFrank · Jan 10, 2007, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by Oven Ron

hello OvenFrank:
I have a Frigidaire CPES389CC1 whose oven bake and broil elements won't heat up - starting this morning when my wife needs to do a lot of baking for guests in the next couple of days. The Frigidaire service guy here in Calgary is coming by tomorrow to check it out, and he thinks it's the "clock unit" which costs around $700 for the part. Did you ever find the problem with your stove? This seems like it should be a easier fix than replacing the entire control unit. Especially at this cost. The stove is 3 years old and this part is not under warranty now.
Please help !!
-OvenRon

Hi Ron,
The Clock we ordered on Nov 7 still has not arrived. You know what? Over 250 is on backorder. Called Frigidair's Customer Service at 1-800-265-8352. They will pay for the part. Yes, it seems it was a factory mistake by switching the red wires. This could be good news for you too. They will for the part and we have to pay the authorized dealer to replace it. Guessing it will not be more than C$300.
Take care, hope this helps.

Oven Ron · Jan 12, 2007, 01:25 PM

Hi guys: Thanks for all your advice / responses. I too ran into the problem of no replacement parts being available. I contacted the Electrolux / Frigidaire head office service folks - pleasant but not at all helpful. I found out from local parts suppliers that NO replacement parts are available anywhere in Canada - they are back-ordered from the factory (which doesn't appear to be able to keep up with demand). I removed my timer / control unit from the stove and found that the large relay (OMRON part number G8P-1C4P-DC12, about $4.49 from AlliedElec.com) had blown and messed up some of the internal circuit board tracing. A local parts supplier sent my unit to a repair shop somewhere near Toronto to rebuild it. [fyi: cost to rebuild was $164. Subsequently I found two other places that rebuild, cheapest was around $99] I got the part back and installed it today - works fine. The two red wires were in place as per the wiring diagram that came with the stove, so in my case the problem is just with a defective timer / control unit rather than incorrect factory installation. Given that so many people seem to have run into this problem with relatively new ranges makes me think the control unit itself is defective - and Frigidaire should be doing something to fix the problem. Getting a new $2000 range every 3 or 4 years is not the answer. I'll be sending a summary of my experience to Consumer Reports. I'm not a very happy consumer at this point, and my wife... well best not to tell you what she thinks!
-Ron

Mr_Chipps · May 27, 2011, 08:45 PM

Hi Folks,

Although this thread is 4 years old, it proved most helpful in guiding the repair of my Frigidaire CPES389AC1 (made in Canada). Thanks to the techs that added vital details to this thread which aided my troubleshooting. My range will soon be 10 years old and is in great shape, so it was definitely worthwhile to repair. However, the cost of a new Electronic Oven Control + Technician to repair would have topped $600. That influenced my decision to attempt a DIY repair.

Due to a power surge at the EOC, the main relay (OMRON G8P-1C4P-DC12) failed. This seems to be a very common problem with these electronic controls. In order to effect the repair, the EOC was completely detached from the front of the stove - 2 screws hold it in place. The wired pin connector at the back of the circuit board was unfastened. The wires along the right side of the board were also unfastened. The parallel circuit boards which make up the EOC were delicately removed from the protective cage so that the solder joints for the relay could be exposed and de-soldered. Be very patient with the removal of the circuit boards from the cage because it does require a series of steps to correctly unlatch the upper and lower boards from the cage.

A new relay was obtained from Allied Electronics for $2.35 + $5 handling + shipping. This is a great deal considering the outrageous cost to replace this entire assembly. And believe it - it can be repaired by any DIY'r provided you have a soldering iron, de-soldering tool and some patience. I had mine fixed in 10 minutes. BTW - the power connections to the EOC were correctly installed on my range at the time of manufacture. The line voltage was metered on the input wire to verify. To avoid any confusion as you reassemble these wires, ensure that you label them before detaching them. If you reverse the two red wires, you will cause future problems for yourself. Good luck with your repair.