[excon]

So, if you think meth should be legalized, I invite you to spend one night with me when I moonlight in the ER here in the meth highway of the country.

Hello again, J:

Don't be mislead. Legalization has NOTHING to do with approving of drug use... As a matter of fact, drug legalizers, like myself, want to do AWAY with addiction, and believe that legalization, regulation, and the offer of treatment on demand IS the way to reduce the kind of carnage you describe.

Let me ask you this. When you moonlight in the ER, do you see any results from drinking and driving?? Do you see torn up bodies, and needless death? I'll bet you do, but I don't hear you call for alcohol prohibition.

Do you go up to the cancer wards?? What about those people who smoked cigarettes and are suffering from lung cancer. They're going to die a hideous death. I'll bet your wards are full of 'em. I don't hear you call for cigarettes to be banned.

excon

[spitvenom]

J_9 I understand what you are saying I do. But if it was legal most people wouldn't make meth in their own house anymore. When was the last time you heard of someone getting arrested for making Gin in their bath tubs? Sure some people still make moonshine but not to the degree when alcohol was illegal.

When I was a kid my cousin (who was six at the time) jumped off his couch onto a glass coffee table and got pretty messed up he still has scars on his face. The reason no one stopped him because my aunt and uncle were both passed out from drinking all day long. His sister who was 10 at the time found him tried to wake my aunt and uncle up but they were to trashed. She had to call my mom who came over and took him to the hospital. Regardless if something is legal or illegal you can't stop @$$holes from being @$$holes.

[J_9]

Let me ask you this. When you moonlight in the ER, do you see any results from drinking and driving?? Do you see torn up bodies, and needless death? I'll bet you do, but I don't hear you call for alcohol prohibition.

Yes, Ex... I do see results from drinking and driving. But remember I live in the middle of the meth highway as well. I've seen plenty of DOA's from drinking and driving. I've also seen a man who shot his lower jaw off because he thought that he was being attacked by aliens due to a meth induced psychosis. How do I know this? From listening to the EMS radio. I've seen full term babies die because Mom needed one more high from meth. I've seen children die... I've seen heart attacks, I don't need to go on.

Excon, I have seen more havoc wreaked from meth than from any other drug, legal (alcohol) or illegal.

Do you go up to the cancer wards??

Don't have to go there... I lived in one for 6 months.

It was SV who stated, and I quote

_9 I think I am in the minority that all drugs should be legal. If you want to smoke crack, snort coke, shoot heroin, and what ever they do with Meth then go ahead.

I have seen more damage in my neck 'o the woods with meth than I have with alcohol or any other drug, legal or illegal. More damage to the addict, more damage to the children, more damage to the loved ones.

Alcohol or pot don't do this to you... Faces of Meth | Meth Photos

[J_9]

When was the last time you heard of someone getting arrested for making Gin in their bath tubs?

Ummm, I live in rural Tennessee, we still have "dry" counties... I hear of it all the time. I grew up in inner cities, where I live now is almost like a 3rd world country to me.

[excon]

Alcohol or pot don't do this to you....

Hello again, J:

The drug war, in spite of the billions spent, hasn't stopped it either.

It's MY viewpoint that legalization and treatment on demand will REDUCE addiction - NOT raise it.

I'm not sure you quite understand the treatment on demand part. You assume that meth addicts LIKE being meth addicts. Of course, some do, but MOST don't. MOST see their teeth falling out. MOST see their lives ruined...

But, what can they DO about it? The answer is NOTHING!! You certainly don't think they have INSURANCE, do you? You certainly don't think can afford rehab, do you? IF the county offers a free rehab, there's a waiting list a mile long. You don't think they'll STOP while they're on the waiting list for rehab, do you? You certainly can't think having a waiting list is a good thing.

If we really want to reduce drug use, treatment on demand is ESSENTIAL. Did I mention how important it is?

excon

[spitvenom]

I am not saying Meth isn't horrible. I have never tried it and I never would even if it was legal. I never tried crack or Heroin either and if they made it legal I never would try it. But the sad truth is people do do it and we can stop it at all as I am sure you are well aware of that.

But if they were legal you wouldn't have to worry about some @$$hole blowing up a house because they have no idea how to make Meth. No more little kids in Philly getting hit by a stray bullet because two drug dealers are fighting over a corner.

[J_9]

Hello again, J:

The drug war, in spite of the billions spent, hasn't stopped it either.

It's MY viewpoint that legalization and treatment on demand will REDUCE addiction - NOT raise it.

I'm not sure you quite understand the treatment on demand part. You assume that meth addicts LIKE being meth addicts. Of course, some do, but MOST don't. MOST see their teeth falling out. MOST see their lives ruined...

But, what can they DO about it? The answer is NOTHING!!! You certainly don't think they have INSURANCE, do you? You certainly don't think can afford rehab, do you? IF the county offers a free rehab, there's a waiting list a mile long, you don't think they'll STOP while they're on the waiting list for rehab. You certainly can't think having a waiting list is a good thing.

If we really want to reduce drug use, treatment on demand is ESSENTIAL. Did I mention how important it is?

excon

Ex, to a point I totally agree with you. But I am not going to pay for the treatment of a meth addict. I have my own problems that I can hardly afford without raising my healthcare premiums.

Do meth addicts want to be addicts? No they don't

Yes, you mentioned how important treatment on demand is, but I have children to raise. I have a mortgage to pay. Do meth addicts? Most likely no. But I'm going to have to pay to make them better. How fair is that to me who works 12+ hours a day, 3-6 days a week. I have bills to pay, an unhealthy husband that I have to care for, extracurricular activities to pay for so that I raise my children in a HEALTHY environment and can still hardly afford to make my mortgage.

I am raising our future. My son got back from Iraq in October, my oldest son is leaving for Iraq on Feb. 5. Do you think I can afford to pay to raise my children as responsible adults AND pay to help addicts get better whether they want to or not? Do you realize, in real time, the failure rate of recovery?

No they don't have insurance, but neither do the gals that come to my L&D every other night because they are seeking attention from significant others or family members... this is at a cost to our state of over $600 per visit. Who pays for that? Tell me who? I do. That's who.

I have had to take my children out of soccer and cheer because of the increase in taxes in my county to pay for the indigent, for the addicts, etc.

While I am all for the legalization and taxation of marijuana, I am against the legalization of meth.

Did I tell you that I delivered a dead baby on the 11th to an addict of unknown drug? Nope. The baby did not even weigh a pound. You know what the mother did? She didn't even shed a tear, she just asked for a wheelchair to go downstairs to get her fix.

You, my love, see it from the legal side, you don't see it from the personal side. Don't tell me you do. I know you grow and smoke, but you aren't the person who goes to the ER because you thing worms have invaded your colon. You don't come up to the L&D department because you are in so much pain from withdrawal that you think you are in labor only to find out that you killed your child. You aren't the woman in room 372 who is there all alone after delivering a child because the father of your first born is in prison for shaken baby syndrome because he though Adolph Hitler was talking to him through the 13 month old trying to make him kill himself.

You see it all through the news media, you don't experience it all in person. The experiences are life changing.

[J_9]

No more little kids in Philly getting hit by a stray bullet because two drug dealers are fighting over a corner.

Tell me, then, how you stop the delusions by making it legal? Tell me how you stop the voices. Tell me how you stop the madness.

Okay, Meth is legal... so is crack.. so is coke...

I just shot up... do you want me to administer your meds? I didn't think so.

[spitvenom]

J_9 I guess my point is how do the drugs being illegal stop any of this?

[J_9]

J_9 I guess my point is how do the drugs being illegal stop any of this?

They don't. But how do the drugs being legal stop it? It doesn't. There is really no easy answer to this question.

As I said, you all see and hear it in the news... I LIVE it. This is my life in a rural community and we discuss it every time we discharge a drug patient. There is no easy answer, but legalization of ALL drugs is not the answer.

[spitvenom]

I don't work in a hospital. I lived in North Philly for 30 of 31 years of my life (I just moved to the suburbs). So what I see (or at least saw)are people getting shot for a corner. Little kids on their way to school getting hit with a stray bullet. Full fledged riots from the Warlocks and Pagans in a corner bar. I never wanted to move out of North Philly but the facts are illegal drugs make it to dangerous to live their anymore. That is the way I am looking at it.

[excon]

They don't. But how do the drugs being legal stop it? It doesn't. There is really no easy answer to this question.

Hello again, J:

Yes, there is. You just don't like the answer, or you don't listen. Let me repeat what I said above. I believe that legalization along with treatment on demand will REDUCE the carnage you describe.

You say you don't want to pay for treatment, yet if we ended the drug war, we'd save BILLIONS and BILLIONS, and then even more BILLIONS. Certainly, we could afford a few million to provide treatment for addicts, and you'd STILL get a refund.

You also don't see any difference between selling drugs on the street corner where there is NO regulation, and selling them in a store where a guy IS checking ID's, and not selling to children. I do.

excon

[J_9]

Excon, I don't think YOU get it.

I'm all for legalizing pot, but not drugs such as meth or crack.

You also don't see any difference between selling drugs on the street corner where there is NO regulation, and selling them in a store where a guy IS checking ID's, and not selling to children. I do.

Again, you are incorrect. I agree with pot... but not meth... not crack... not PCP... not heroin.

[spitvenom]

When I first started to say all drugs should be legal I wasn't even going to mention meth because of how bad it really is. But then I thought you hypocrite if you think crack should be legal then you have to say meth. Please don't think I am some hard drug supporter because I have never tried any of them.

What I am wondering is say tomorrow Obama comes out and say we are legalizing all drugs. Do you think in a year the streets would be filled with people with needles sticking out their arms and little kids running around naked and crying because they have no idea where their junkie parents are? Just wondering.

[tomder55]

Where are the clinical trials and the FDA NDA approvals ? The answer ? THC is already an approved perscription by the
Fda.It is called Marinol.


Lets call a spade a spade here . The medical marijuana that people want approved is smoking to get high. Marinol is as effective for the purpose it is prescribed for without the 400 other harmful chemicals found in pot smoke.
If you are looking for a comparison ;morphine can be delivered in a controlled does. But smoking opium can't . Likewise you cannot deliver a controlled does by smoking pot. So all you are getting is at best ancidotal testimony to it's effectiveness. No other drugs would be approved for use with such flimsy science.

This is a law passed in NJ by legislators that bypassed the recommendations of the Medical Society of New Jersey, 8,000 physicians; The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists/New Jersey Section, 1,800 physicians; The New Jersey Psychiatric Association; and The New Jersey Chapter of the American Society of Addiction Medicine.
Across the board their objection was that there is a lack of adequate and well-controlled studies on the efficacy of marijuana to treat medical conditions.

The question boils down to this ;should marijuana for medical treatment bypass the same regulatory procedures that every other medicine is subject to ?

[excon]

The question boils down to this ;should marijuana for medical treatment bypass the same regulatory procedures that every other medicine is subject to ?

Hello tom:

If the federal government would release some marijuana for medical study, then the old fashioned way would work fine. But, the feds are afraid that any study will open floodgates that they don't want opened, ala the study Nixon asked for that said pot should be LEGAL.

So, as long as the DEA is threatening medical schools with prosecution IF they possess marijuana for study, it's just fine with me that the states assert their own authority and tell the fed to stick it. The federal government is NOT interested in the well being of its citizens. They ARE interested in continuing their assault on America called the drug war.

As a right wing person, you DO believe in states rights, don't you? Or is that only when it's convenient? Don't answer. I understand.

By the way, where did you cut and paste your response from? Would it be government??

excon

[Catsmine]

I'm with Ex on this one. The treatment on demand centers can be funded with just the marijuana taxes already on the books. The savings from disbanding the wannabe cops in the DEA, as they are described by real cops, could build entire hospitals in almost all the towns as small as J9's.

[J_9]

So, Cats... you agree that meth, crack, acid, PCP and the like should be legalized? Well, guess I'll be getting more hours in the ER with less take home pay.

I don't think you all see it from the level that I do. You read the papers, you hear the news, but you aren't in the "pit of hell." You don't see the woman who comes into the ER stoned out of her mind freaking out because she has a toothpick stuck between her teeth (yes, that's a true story). You don't see the resources that it pulls from people who DO have a true emergency.

Again, you all sit back in your comfy armchairs and make decisions based on what you hear in the news.. the biased opinions. You don't "live" with the dregs of society on a daily basis.

I see legalizing anything BUT marijuana as a potential medical nightmare and a drain on our resources.

I still invite anyone who would want to make the travel, to come live with me in my world for a week. Help me reconcile the charges for the woman who comes to my L&D department because she thinks her water broke because her son spilled a glass of water on her lap.

Don't you see that this will only INCREASE the problems we have? People don't want to be doctors anymore because of the medical malpractice... this will increase as well.

We already have a nursing shortage. We can't afford this right now. How about raising the salaries of nurses to get more people into the profession before we discuss increasing the population of hospital units. We are stretched to our limits as it is. Just as schools have a student/teacher ratio, we have a nurse/patient ratio. As the system is right now, we cannot afford to stretch our resources any more than they already are.

Why don't we try restructuring our medical staff before we legalize drugs?

[tomder55]

I'm with Ex on this one. The treatment on demand centers can be funded with just the marijuana taxes already on the books. The savings from disbanding the wannabe cops in the DEA, as they are described by real cops, could build entire hospitals in almost all the towns as small as J9's.

As I suspected ;this has nothing to do with marijuana as a treatment... that has already been approved in a safe dosage and delivery system. This is all about the legality of a recreational drug.
There should at least be a recognition of that basic fact.


I certainly see the logic in the decriminalization of pot but I am completely with J-9 about the terrible consequences of legalizing most recreational drugs .

Excon ;the facts I cited about the other dangerous chemicals in marijuana smoke are found in muliple sources and is indesputable . The FDA would never allow such a drug on the market that has so many toxins present. They get into enough trouble when a single one gets discovered after approval.

[J_9]

All I have left is... you all sit back in your warm comfy homes... food on the table and continue to dictate how we should handle the "war on drugs." Legalize them... yeah right.

Until you have spent one hour in the ER, as a medical professional, you have no room to speak.

So you even know how much it costs for a one hour visit to the ER or L&D? Do you realize all of the charges involved? No, of course you don't.

You see, we schedule our nurses according to our census from the previous year. Now, if you legalize drugs... yes they are drugs... we have to increase our staffing. We cannot predict what the census would be for any given time. So, we get put "on call." That means, in my facility, $1 an hour to sit at home in our uniforms to wait for the phone to ring. We have a half an hour to get to our facility should the census increase. That means no planning, no going out to dinner, no sleep.

Pot is a drug we all, I cant' speak for everyone, used in our teens and others continue to do so, but have you ever seen the ramifications of meth first hand? No, I didn't think so.

If you all, I'm not naming anyone, think that drugs should be legalized, I suggest, before you vote, that you spend a week in a shelter, spend a week in a support program for lost loved ones.

I mean no ill harm here, but, again, you are an "arm chair quarterback." None of you know the costs, the employee resources, and/or the beds it takes to care for addicts.

As a recovering addict myself, and the child of one, I see where you are coming from. But until you have spent considerable time in the trenches you haven't a clue what it takes to run a hospital or a recovery program.