[DDave]

Tom, how are you doing? What are your thoughts on these tankles heaters? Are they really able to do the job of supplying all the hot water you need? I will have a large whirlpool tub, one shower, and the obvious other stuff. Washer, dishwasher, and sinks through out the house. Will they support tub fill and washing machine fill at the same time or not? Do you need to install more than one at different locations or what? I like the idea of using them if they are what yhey say they are. What's better, gas or electric? And do you have any recommendations on make and model? I live in southern Kansas and I believe inlet water temp sometimes dips into the mid 40 degree range in winter. Help if you can, and thanks again Tom. Dave.?

[speedball1]

Hi Dave Welcome back, Iv'e installed tankless water heaters and have nothing but the nicest things to say about them. True they cost from $500 for a three element to $600 for a top of the line four element. But consider, they will last 30 to 40 years compared to 8 or 9 of a regular heater. Expect a savings of 40 to 60% on your electric water heater bill.(Figure the savings over the years plus the replacement cost of heaters and it begains to pay for itself.) This unit will not leak or rupture and stays 99.5% efficient through out its lifespan. I have installed small "kicker units" to boost hot water to a far bathroom to a full size unit that handles a 4 bedroom house. Let me give you a link where you can check them out. http://houseneeds.com/shop/HeatingPr...rstarindex.htm I prefer electric to gas if only because electricity doesn't explode. After you check out the site there will be more questions I'm sure. Just click on back. Cheers, Tom

[john-boat]

I first came across a Tankless Water Heater a little over ten years ago. It was installed in my uncle's townhouse. I did not pay much mind to it. Heck, it was just a water heater. Anyhow, the more I read about Tankless Water Heaters, the more interested I became about them. I've now had my own Tankless Water Heater for almost 4 years. It works beyond beyond all my expectations.

[labman]

As I have said before:

I have looked in to them and passed them by. If you currently have a gas hot water tank, look at your bill. One of the better insulated conventional tanks might be a better investment. This question keeps coming up, check these threads. https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/...hlight=tankless

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/...hlight=tankless

Also watch the minimum flow rates and clearances. I think they are over hyped.

[adlowe]

Iv'e installed tankless water heaters and have nothing but the nicest things to say about them.

Tom,

Your endorsement of tankless water heaters means a lot to me. I'll soon be replacing my probably-13-year-old conventional gas water heater and plan to go tankless. But sorting through the options and requirements is a bit confusing.

My plan is to hang some large-diameter PVC in the basement to pre-warm the inlet water before heating. (Inlet temps get pretty low during our Michigan winters!) That would allow me to use up to 4 "kicker" units to handle my 3 bathrooms + kitchen -- but one bathroom has 2 showers and I'm not sure the small heaters can handle that flow adequately. But going to a "whole house" system guarantees that I'll regularly be hitting two (or more) simultaneous points of use. So how do I figure the flow I'll need to manage?
- 4 showers
- 3 bathroom sinks
- 1 kitchen sink
- 1 dishwasher
- 1 washing machine

If I go with a whole-house unit: Your preference for electric is logical but I'm already heating the house with natural gas so that's not an issue for me. The best flow rates I've seen for electric are 4.5 GPM (for 55 degrees) versus 5.3 GPM for gas units. But these gas units cost about 50% more than the electric ones -- not counting the cost for rigging up exhaust and (maybe) inlet air. Have I got that comparison figured right?

Thanks.

[labman]

Keep figuring Dave. Unless you locate the unit close to the point of use, you will still have the same wait while the cooled off water runs down the drain. The gas units may be much smaller than a tank, but require large clearances. They also want stainless steel vents, $$$.

[speedball1]

Tom,

Your endorsement of tankless water heaters means a lot to me. I'll soon be replacing my probably-13-year-old conventional gas water heater and plan to go tankless. But sorting through the options and requirements is a bit confusing.

My plan is to hang some large-diameter PVC in the basement to pre-warm the inlet water before heating. (Inlet temps get pretty low during our Michigan winters!) That would allow me to use up to 4 "kicker" units to handle my 3 bathrooms + kitchen -- but one bathroom has 2 showers and I'm not sure the small heaters can handle that flow adequately. But going to a "whole house" system guarantees that I'll regularly be hitting two (or more) simultaneous points of use. So how do I figure the flow I'll need to manage?
- 4 showers
- 3 bathroom sinks
- 1 kitchen sink
- 1 dishwasher
- 1 washing machine

If I go with a whole-house unit: Your preference for electric is logical but I'm already heating the house with natural gas so that's not an issue for me. The best flow rates I've seen for electric are 4.5 GPM (for 55 degrees) versus 5.3 GPM for gas units. But these gas units cost about 50% more than the electric ones -- not counting the cost for rigging up exhaust and (maybe) inlet air. Have I got that comparison figured right?

Thanks.

Hi Dave, How many in your family? Children? Their ages? Male or female? Will more then one shower be used at the same time? I'm attempting to determine your fixture load. Regards, tom

[adlowe]

Hi Dave, How many in your family? Children? Their ages? Male or female? Will more then one shower be used at the same time? I'm attempting to determine your fixture load.

Not Dave -- I jumped in on his thread assuming that he'd be facing the same issues as me.

We've got a 4-bedroom, 3-bath, 2-story house with 2 showers in one bath (total of 4 showers). None of the bathrooms is plumbed "in sequence" so plumbing them onto separate tankless heaters poses no major reworking. Currently 3 children at home, 1 girl and 2 boys ages 16, 12 and 10. We also have a 22-year-old daughter who is with us from time to time.

We will DEFINITELY be using more than one fixture at a time quite frequently. Most common is two showers at once -- almost every morning and at least 2 evenings per week. Dishwasher or washing machine and 1 shower are very common occurrences though not regular events.

[speedball1]

Not Dave -- I jumped in on his thread assuming that he'd be facing the same issues as me.

We've got a 4-bedroom, 3-bath, 2-story house with 2 showers in one bath (total of 4 showers). None of the bathrooms is plumbed "in sequence" so plumbing them onto separate tankless heaters poses no major reworking. Currently 3 children at home, 1 girl and 2 boys ages 16, 12 and 10. We also have a 22-year-old daughter who is with us from time to time.

We will DEFINITELY be using more than one fixture at a time quite frequently. Most common is two showers at once -- almost every morning and at least 2 evenings per week. Dishwasher or washing machine and 1 shower are very common occurences though not regular events.

My apologies adlowe,

With 3 males and 3 females in you household you have a high use household.
The reason I asked the gender is that females take more showers, wash more clothes and use more hot water.
Have you considered installing a whole house unit and adding smaller "kicker units" as/or if they're needed since you have separate branch lines and can be selective about it. Regards, tom

[adlowe]

Have you considered installing a whole house unit and adding smaller "kicker units" as/or if they're needed since you have separate branch lines and can be selective about it.

Yes, definitely. I've been leaning toward the gas unit simply because of the higher flow capacity. But an electric unit would cost quite a bit less -- enough less that I could put in a standalone "kicker" unit to handle a bathroom and (maybe) the kitchen and still be money ahead. With my plan to pre-warm the inlet water (by running it through large-diameter PVC pipe suspended from the basement ceiling) I could even go with 3 "kicker" units and be money ahead versus a whole-house gas unit.
How do I figure the flow required per shower, dishwasher and washing machine?
Thanks.

[speedball1]

Yes, definitely. I've been leaning toward the gas unit simply because of the higher flow capacity. But an electric unit would cost quite a bit less -- enough less that I could put in a standalone "kicker" unit to handle a bathroom and (maybe) the kitchen and still be money ahead. With my plan to pre-warm the inlet water (by running it through large-diameter PVC pipe suspended from the basement ceiling) I could even go with 3 "kicker" units and be money ahead versus a whole-house gas unit.
How do I figure the flow required per shower, dishwasher and washing machine?
Thanks.

"How do I figure the flow required per shower, dishwasher and washing machine?"
That's a hell of a question. Your showerflow rate is determined by the shower head, ( the new ones have "water savers " installed) that you now have. Having said that the figures I give will be average but you can get a pretty good idea of the house usage by multiplying the number times a fixture or appliance is used. To get a correct daily aveage I would take and record a weeks usage and divide by 7.

Showers = 5 gals. Per minute if a standard shower head. 2 gpm if a water saver
Washer = 55 gals. Per load
Dish washer = 15 gals per load

Let me know what you decide. Tom

[adlowe]

Thanks, Tom.

Based on those numbers -- and the appliances/fixtures that I have -- there should be no problem for me to go with a whole-house electric with a 4.5 GPM (at 55 degrees). The washing machine will tax capacity only when running a hot water load (We only run 1 of these a week.) and everything else should be okay for two fixtures at once. I'll start with that and build in flexibility to easily add (or switch to) "kicker" units if we run into trouble spots.

I appreciate labman's warnings about product specs but believe that my pre-warming plan should give me plenty of 60+ degree inlet water for leeway. Besides that, the dishwasher and washing machine (aforementioned 1 load per week) are the only applications that will be using all hot water in normal use. (As a reference point, we've NEVER run out of hot water from our 50-gallon conventional heater even when we've had 7 in the household -- including 2 teenage females.)

[seltiic]

Dave,
Tankless water heaters are great small water heaters. For your application I suggest that you install either a single powerful unit like the Titan N270 water heater or two separate water heaters like the Titan N160 water heater which can be purchased at a great price at www.usatankless.com

[speedball1]

Hi seltiic and welcome to The Plumbing Page at AskMeHelpDesk.com You are responding to a 8 year old dead thread. Please check the date before you post. Thanks,
Great advice! Just a little late.
You seem to know your stuff. Let's see more of you on this page. Regards, Tom