[amorskie]

Is it legal for Zellers to charge $510 fine for a lipgloss that my daughter opened and tried and left it somewhere in the store? There was no item in her possession when she was apprehended by the mall guards.

[ScottGem]

If she opened a package, then the store could no longer sell that package. Even if she did not remove it from the store, she could still be charged with shoplifting or theft.

Many states have laws that allow a merchant to charge a fine as retribution for theft. However, such tactics are generally not followed through. So I would ignore the letter and see if they sue.

[Hundalei]

She did take a product & use it without paying for it, making said product unsellable and a loss for Zellers.

If it was a mistake, and your daughter intended to purchase the lipgloss but accidentally sat it down somewhere & forgot about it you & your daughter should go to the store where she could offer an apology to the manager, payment for the lipgloss, and perhaps pledge to volunteer at the store, or a charity associated with the chain, & a promise to never do it again in lieu of the fine. No guarantees, but worth a shot.

[Fr_Chuck]

OK, you know she did it, you stated in question that she did it.

Well of course the store "fine" is merely their penality that charge, that they rate for the item, the time and trouble for the security and for management to handle this.

They can of course if you don't wish to pay them, press criminal charges, and you get to pay government fines, normally probation fees and daughter gets a criminal record.

So I guess you can refuse?

I guess the real issue I have, you don't even seem to consider there should be a penality for stealing, which is what she did.

[excon]

Hello:

I went to Lowe's the other day to buy a nut. I didn't know the size I needed, so I took the bolt with me.. There were NO loose nuts so I could not find out the size I needed. So, I opened a package of what I thought was the right size only to find out it wasn't.

That package remained opened and UN purchased by me. I don't think I stole anything, do you?

excon

[AK lawyer]

That package remained opened and UN purchased by me. I don't think I stole anything, do you?

But you didn't stick a nut to your lips and walk out of the store.


Seems like that's a lot of money for one unit of lipgloss.

Then I haven't ever shopped for that sort of thing, so I wouldn't know. :)

[ScottGem]

The package of nuts could still be resold. A tube of lip gloss can't.

[JudyKayTee]

Hello:

I went to Lowe's the other day to buy a nut. I didn't know the size I needed, so I took the bolt with me.. There were NO loose nuts so I could not find out the size I needed. So, I opened a package of what I thought was the right size only to find out it wasn't.

That package remained opened and UN purchased by me. I don't think I stole anything, do you?

excon

I think this is a different scenario. I don't want to put on lipstick that someone else "tried" not do I want to eat food someone else has tasted.

The fact that the daughter left it someplace else in the store is telling.

[amorskie]

But you didn't stick a nut to your lips and walk out of the store.


Seems like that's a lot of money for one unit of lipgloss.

Then I haven't ever shopped for that sort of thing, so I wouldn't know. :)

That's my point. It seems that they are making this as part of their business in making money out from these (NOT SO) matured kids. By empossing penalties of such amount, they are not actually punishing these kids from their unacceptable behaviour but their parents who'll end up paying for the charges. It would be better if they require these kids to go and work for them for free for a certain time ( like 160 hours) regardless of how much the cost of the item in question so that they will learn the lesson.

[Alty]

That's my point. It seems that they are making this as part of their business in making money out from these (NOT SO) matured kids. By empossing penalties of such amount, they are not actually punishing these kids from their unacceptable behaviour but their parents who'll end up paying for the charges. It would be better if they require these kids to go and work for them for free for a certain time ( like 160 hours) regardless of how much the cost of the item in question so that they will learn the lesson.

So you expect them to let your daughter work off her debt in their store? She's lucky that she's not banned from the store now. I'm actually surprised that that wasn't one of their conditions.

What your daughter did was wrong. It's not their job to teach her a lesson, it's your job, you're her mother!

If you think that she should work it off, then make her work it off. Put her to work at home so she can pay you back for the charges she incurred that you had to pay.

Hopefully she'll learn her lesson the first time, because the next time she may not be lucky enough to get away with just charges.

[ScottGem]

That's my point. It seems that they are making this as part of their business in making money out from these (NOT SO) matured kids. By empossing penalties of such amount, they are not actually punishing these kids from their unacceptable behaviour but their parents who'll end up paying for the charges. It would be better if they require these kids to go and work for them for free for a certain time ( like 160 hours) regardless of how much the cost of the item in question so that they will learn the lesson.

Um the kids STOLE from them. You think they would want them working for them?

But I agree that these so called fines are ridiculous and onerous. On the other hand, its not up to the store to punish the children, but the parents who did not teach them better.

[JudyKayTee]

That's my point. It seems that they are making this as part of their business in making money out from these (NOT SO) matured kids. By empossing penalties of such amount, they are not actually punishing these kids from their unacceptable behaviour but their parents who'll end up paying for the charges. It would be better if they require these kids to go and work for them for free for a certain time ( like 160 hours) regardless of how much the cost of the item in question so that they will learn the lesson.

If your daughter stole from me I would not "hire" her as part of her punishment.

I would not assume that all parents pay these charges for their children - some parents actually expect their children to get jobs and pay the fines. It's called being responsible for your actions.

What was your child's punishment?

[amorskie]

ok, you know she did it, you stated in question that she did it.

Well of course the store "fine" is merley thier penality that charge, that they rate for the item, the time and trouble fo the security and for management to handle this.

They can of course if you don't wish to pay them, press criminal charges, and you get to pay goverment fines, normally probation fees and daughter gets a criminal record.

So I guess you can refuse ??

I guess the real issue I have, you don't even seem to consider there should be a penality for stealing, which is what she did.

I am not saying that there shoudn't be a penalty for stealing. She'd realized that she was making a mistake that is why she just left the unopened item (but removed from the package) somewhere in the store. My point is, by charging us this amount of money, they are not actually punishing the kid but us (the parents) because we will end up paying the tab. I wish that they could just require them to work for free for a huge amount of time so that they experience a hard labour and face the consequences of stealing.

[amorskie]

Um the kids STOLE from them. You think they would want them working for them?

But I agree that these so called fines are ridiculous and onerous. On the other hand, its not up to the store to punish the children, but the parents who did not teach them better.

Even though how hard you try to teach them, they spend more time at school with their friends. During the incident, she was with a friend... whom they actually got a lipgloss from her when she was apprehended. At least my daughter realized that she's making a mistake so she just left the unopened item (removed from the original package) somewhere before leaving the store.

BTW, I was just reading the web about laws on shoplifting. It can only be considered shoplifting if you took an item and you intend to leave the store without paying it. It is not even considered shoplifting even if you pocketed item until you passed the counter or about to leave without paying it.

What about pressing charges against the security officer for humiliating my daughter? She was scared to death and until now every time we ask questions about it, she burst into tears and her whole body trembling.

[amorskie]

If your daughter stole from me I would not "hire" her as part of her punishment.

I would not assume that all parents pay these charges for their children - some parents actually expect their children to get jobs and pay the fines. It's called being responsible for your actions.

What was your child's punishment?

She can't go shopping with her friends. We have agreed that if we pay the fine, she will replace the same amount when she gets a job. I don't want to force her to get a job right now because she's maintaining her academic average of 94 so she could apply for full scholarship. My daughter is not a bad kid, it's just that she was with this girl... she probably did it for curiosity.

[excon]

What about pressing charges against the security officer for humiliating my daughter?

Hello a:

I think your daughter needed a little humiliation. As her mother, I'd think you would too. But, it takes all kinds.

excon

[JudyKayTee]

She can't go shopping with her friends. We have agreed that if we pay the fine, she will replace the same amount when she gets a job. I don't want to force her to get a job right now because she's maintaining her academic average of 94 so she could apply for full scholarship. My daughter is not a bad kid, it's just that she was with this girl...she probably did it for curiosity.

It doesn't seem to me that she is taking responsibility if "she was with this girl" and stole out of curiosity.

Her punishment is she can't go shopping?

[excon]

My point is, by charging us this amount of money, they are not actually punishing the kid but us (the parents) because we will end up paying the tab.

BTW, i was just reading the web about laws on shoplifting. It can only be considered shoplifting if you took an item and you intend to leave the store without paying it. It is not even considered shoplifting even if you pocketed item until you passed the counter or about to leave without paying it.

Hello again:

Couple things more...

As a parent, YOU could certainly force your daughter to pay YOU back once you pay her fine. I would.

And, your screed about STEALING, as though it means that your daughter isn't actually a thief. In terms of criminal law, you may be right. But, she isn't being charged criminally. Zellers is just trying to recover what they perceive as their losses. I don't agree with how they're doing it, but at least it IS civil, and your daughter isn't risking jail or a criminal record.

Plus, the Padre above said that you can certainly refuse to pay and take your chances in court. If you believe what you read, then stand up for your daughter's rights. Put her in front of a juvenile court judge.

Next is your attitude regarding your daughter's attempted theft. I'm telling you from personal experience, if you don't nip it in the bud RIGHT NOW, in her old age, she'll be typing on a website like this signing her name as exconess.

excon

[amorskie]

The package of nuts could still be resold. A tube of lip gloss can't.

Yes they can sell it because the lipgloss itself was not opened. It was just removed from the packaging. I am pretty sure it's back in the shelf by now.

[amorskie]

It doesn't seem to me that she is taking responsibility if "she was with this girl" and stole out of curiosity.

Her punishment is she can't go shopping?

This girl stoled an item first... they got something from her when she was apprehended unlike my daughter that they did not get anything in her possession because she was able to realize that she was making a mistake so she decided to just leave the unopened lipgloss somewhere in the store.