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csc327 · Dec 29, 2009, 02:16 PM

My fiancé had bad credit and a history of being unable to pay his bills, so when we got engaged this past July, we purchased my $10,000 engagement ring on MY credit, and the ring is in MY name, not his. We mutually broke off the engagement (he initiated it by saying we weren't "compatible"), and now he is demanding that I leave the ring with an unbiased third party (a legal rep) until he has paid it off, at which time he takes possession of it. I am currently in Colorado Springs and will be moving to Nebraska in three weeks. He has made all of the payments to the tune of $4,200 and he says he will continue to make them until the ring is paid off. He still owes $5,800 on the ring, and quite frankly I am nervous about leaving it behind. He appears to have good intentions, but his history of being unable to pay his bills concerns me. Although he appears to be an honorable man and has supported me financially for the past three months, I don't feel right leaving the ring. If he fails to make a payment(s), or makes a late payment, it is MY credit that will be affected. He is treatening to sue me if I take the ring with me to Nebraska.

His contention is that he has helped me financially and has already invested $4,200 in the ring.

My contention is that I moved from New Jersey to be with him in Colorado. I sold all of my belongings at a fraction of the original cost. Additionally, because he didn't have enough money to pay our bills, my credit card has had to supplement that -- and now I am $3,600 in debt on my Visa card (which had a zero balance before I met him).

It seems to me that his $4,200 investment should be made to offset the $3,600 debt on my credit card.

I really don't want to hear how stupid I was to allow the ring to be put on my credit. I've been through enough and have learned a valuable lesson. Instead, I need some sound legal advice.

Thank you.

Stratmando · Dec 29, 2009, 02:58 PM

Not sure the law, but could see if he had the ring, his best intentions(financial situation) may not allow him to pay. Rent and food may have priority.
Either way you are responsible for the debt. If you kept the ring, you would be responsible for the balance, and keep the ring.
I feel, if he gave? You the ring, it is your ring. Good Luck

csc327 · Dec 29, 2009, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Stratmando

Not sure the law, but could see if he had the ring, his best intentions(financial situation) may not allow him to pay. Rent and food may have priority.
Either way you are responsible for the debt. If you kept the ring, you would be responsible for the balance, and keep the ring.
I feel, if he gave? you the ring, it is your ring. Good Luck

Thank you for taking the time to give me some advice. I really just want to do the right thing without being taken advantage of.

hheath541 · Dec 29, 2009, 03:15 PM

I really don't think he would win any lawsuit. An engagement ring is clearly a gift, and gifts don't have to be returned. It's in your name and he's paid less than half the price, so he doesn't have majority ownership of it.

Keep the ring. Either keep making payments, or see if you can return it. Move on with your life. Maybe sell the ring to fund your move.

csc327 · Dec 29, 2009, 03:22 PM

I'm trying to find an attorney in Colorado Springs. What specialty should I search for? Family Law?

hheath541 · Dec 29, 2009, 03:29 PM

That would be a good place to start. They should be able to point you in the right direction if there's someone who can better help.

JudyKayTee · Dec 29, 2009, 04:09 PM

This is not a family law matter. It's a CONTRACT LAW matter - an agreement to marry is an oral contract. You need an Attorney because this is NOT the usual "somebody broke the engagement, who gets the ring?" question. Whether you moved to be with him will be immaterial. My "guess" (and it's purely that) is that the Court will order that he keep the ring and make the payments OR give you the ring and YOU make the balance of the payments, plus pay him for the difference between the cost of the ring and the value of the ring.

Just a guess and I'm curious to see how this plays out.

csc327 · Dec 29, 2009, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

This is not a family law matter. It's a CONTRACT LAW matter - an agreement to marry is an oral contract. You need an Attorney because this is NOT the usual "somebody broke the engagement, who gets the ring?" question. Whether or not you moved to be with him will be immaterial. My "guess" (and it's purely that) is that the Court will order that he keep the ring and make the payments OR give you the ring and YOU make the balance of the payments, plus pay him for the difference between the cost of the ring and the value of the ring.

Just a guess and I'm curious to see how this plays out.

Thanks JKT for the info. Just curious as to why you believe HE will be the one to keep the ring when HE is the one who initiated the breakup?

csc327 · Dec 29, 2009, 05:55 PM

I suppose I didn't communicate very effectively in my initial post. I think I should be able to take the ring, sell it, and he can immediately cease making payments. Again, the ring is in my name and it was an engagement gift. AND... he was the one who decided we were incompatible. I just agreed with him one month later.

JudyKayTee · Dec 29, 2009, 06:12 PM

What does the ring is "in your name" mean? If he bought the ring, paid for the ring, gave you the ring, then I can see that it is yours to do whatever. I never understand why a woman wants to keep a ring that was a symbol of a failed engagement but that's another issue.

That is not the situation here - the ring apparently was purchased on your account and he is making the payments. This is most definitely NOT a clean deal.

I stand by my original advice.

Fr_Chuck · Dec 29, 2009, 07:36 PM

Well first why in gods name anyone with bad credit would buy a 10,000 ring is beyond me to start with.

This shows some very por judgements just to start with.

Since YOU stlll owe money on your credit card, I can see holding on to it for security on the credit card debt.

I can also see if he decides not to pay any more on it, at this point also.

As noted before, can the ring merely be sold to pay off the balance and everyone goes their way

csc327 · Dec 29, 2009, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

Well first why in gods name anyone with bad credit would buy a 10,000 ring is beyond me to start with.

This shows some very por judgements just to start with.

Since YOU stlll owe money on your credit card, I can see holding on to it for security on the credit card debt.

I can also see if he decides not to pay any more on it, at this point also.

As noted before, can the ring merely be sold to pay off the balance and everyone goes thier way

Oh boy, this is getting complicated. First off, I am the legal owner of the ring. We charged the ring on my credit -- It's on a Jared's credit account and I still owe $5,800. The Visa card that I mentioned earlier has nothing to do with what is owed to the Jeweler. The previous poster I think misunderstood me. I do NOT want to hold onto the ring after it is paid. If I relinquish the ring now, then what if he doesn't make the payments? It will be MY credit that is affected adversely. I would like to return the ring to him after he pays the entire balance.

Secondly, my ex is the one with bad credit and he did NOT buy the ring.
The ring was put on MY credit account after I passed their credit check.

My ex will not allow me to sell the ring... he says if I do, he will sue me because he already paid $4,200 on it.

Did you read my original post? I thought I had explained everything in clear detail.

csc327 · Dec 29, 2009, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

What does the ring is "in your name" mean? If he bought the ring, paid for the ring, gave you the ring, then I can see that it is yours to do whatever. I never understand why a woman wants to keep a ring that was a symbol of a failed engagement but that's another issue.

That is not the situation here - the ring apparently was purchased on your account and he is making the payments. This is most definitely NOT a clean deal.

I stand by my original advice.

JKT, had you read my initial post, you would have seen the I am the legal owner of the ring. He had bad credit, so I charged the ring in MY name! He has made the payments thus far.

csc327 · Dec 29, 2009, 10:21 PM

Moderator, could you please close this thread as I am getting nowhere. Thank you.

JudyKayTee · Dec 30, 2009, 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by csc327

JKT, had you read my initial post, you would have seen the I am the legal owner of the ring. He had bad credit, so I charged the ring in MY name! He has made the payments thus far.

First, there is no need to be insulting. I DID read your initial post. 90% of what you posted is immaterial in the eyes of the law.

This does not in the eyes of the law make you the "LEGAL OWNER" of the ring. You are confusing possession, emotion and the law. HE made the payments; it is HIS ring. If this were, for example, an auto, he would have a claim to it by virtue of making the payments, whether the loan is in your name. This ring is also property and no different.

As I said - contract law.

I'm sorry you aren't getting the advice you apparently think works in your favor but I am telling you what the law is.

I agree - moderators should close this thread and you should consult with a CONTRACT Attorney.

spitvenom · Dec 30, 2009, 07:38 AM

In PA if a man buys a woman an engagement ring than a few months later the woman breaks off the engagement, the ring MUST be returned. In PA an engagement ring is a conditional gift. I have a link that shows what states an engagement ring is conditional.

Engagement Ring Laws

But your case is different. My opinion on the matter (please didn't kill me for giving an opinion on the legal boards) is that it is your ring since your name is on everything but he made the payments so you might have to pay him back. But then again he just might be SOL because no one forced him to make those payments. I don't know but hopefully the link helps. Good Luck

JudyKayTee · Dec 30, 2009, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by spitvenom

In PA if a man buys a woman an engagement ring than a few months later the woman breaks off the engagement, the ring MUST be returned. In PA an engagement ring is a conditional gift. I have a link that shows what states an engagement ring is conditional.

Engagement Ring Laws

But your case is different. My opinion on the matter (please didn't kill me for giving an opinion on the legal boards) is that it is your ring since your name is on everything but he made the payments so you might have to pay him back. But then again he just might be SOL because no one forced him to make those payments. I don't know but hopefully the link helps. Good Luck

That's a good site but as I said from the "top," this is a different situation because the loan is in her name.

I believe it's anyone's guess how a Court would order. This is not a case where "he" has simply purchased a ring and the engagement has been broken which is the "usual" scenario.

spitvenom · Dec 30, 2009, 07:52 AM

I read that Judy and I am interested to see how it works out. I personally think he is SOL. I am looking at it like this if I had a girlfriend and she buys a car only her name is on the title and I make $5,000 worth of payments on it then we break up I have no right to that car. But maybe it is different.

csc327 · Dec 30, 2009, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by Stratmando

JKT, Yes I agree with that, You couldn't give me good advice for an Attourney, Gave me a red. This woman is looking for Answers.
I don't have an answer, But sounds like you are saying, give the Ring back and trust him(a KNOWN Credit Risk)and hope he pays and doesn't destroy your credit. And if he doesn't Pay, You can pay thousands for an attourney to correct.
I heard possession is 9/10's of the law. What is the New law?

Stratmando, I appreciate your kind words and willingness to help. I really don't think any judge would order me to give the ring back when OVER 50% is still owed on the ring. My good credit is the only thing that I have in my life right now that protects me. I have no family or support system. I am going to TRY to find an attorney so that I know the best course of action.

I couldn't care less about the ring -- it is my credit that is at stake, and STRATMANDO, I thank you for understanding my position. :D

csc327 · Dec 30, 2009, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by spitvenom

In PA if a man buys a woman an engagement ring than a few months later the woman breaks off the engagement, the ring MUST be returned. In PA an engagement ring is a conditional gift. I have a link that shows what states an engagement ring is conditional.

Engagement Ring Laws

But your case is different. My opinion on the matter (please didn't kill me for giving an opinion on the legal boards) is that it is your ring since your name is on everything but he made the payments so you might have to pay him back. But then again he just might be SOL because no one forced him to make those payments. I don't know but hopefully the link helps. Good Luck

I appreciate and respect your advice. But HE was the one who broke the engagement and ordered me out of his house within 60 days. His only reason for breaking the engagement was that we are "incompatible." :confused: