[janieg]

I've checked the messages here and have ordered a Wingtite shower drain replacement kit for a leaking shower drain. I reviewed the instructions at their site for removing the old shower drain, and I guess I have the type of drain that was glued in. When I read on their site how to remove it, I'm a little concerned because I have zero plumbing experience. They talk about using a pipe wheel cutter, putting in a riser, etc. and it's all Greek to me. Is there a simple step-by-step method for removing this type of shower drain? I couldn't understand how to insert an image, but here's the URL for the jpg of a picture of my shower drain:
http://www.quailhaven.com/showerdrain.jpg

The house is 10 years old and I'm wondering if the putty or whatever that was used to seal it in has decayed to the point that I could just pry it out.

If it requires a lot of experience or courage to remove, then I'm wondering if I should call a plumber. I do have another shower in the house, so if I completely blow it, at least I can still get clean every day.

Thanks for any ideas,
Janie G.

[speedball1]

Hi Janie, Before you start to tear up you shower drain have you tested it to be absolutely sure that it's really the drain itself. Most shower leaks can be traced back to faulty caulking in the tiles where the water from the stream hits. To test, block off the shower drain so that it will hold water. A wet cloth jamed down in the drain to make it leak proof will do it. Now run water in the shower and mark the water level with a mark and let it set overnight. If the water level is down or you have water on the ceiling if a second floor shower then the drain is faulty. If the water level is unchanged then check the caulking where the water hits the tile. Of course if the shower stall is a manufactured one without tiles then the drain must be replaced or repaired. However, before you start to tear up anything let's explor all the options. Please tell me what the setup is. 1st. Floor shower, 2nd. Floor? Tile or plastic walls? If the leak is in the top part of the drain it may be possible to prime the part with PVC primer and run a ring of epoxy around it to caulk it water tight without disturbing anything. Would you have to take out a section of the ceiling to get at the drain to cut it out? Let me have a few answers and I'll answer ASAP Cheers, Tom

[janieg]

Hi and thanks for such a speedy reply.  It's a fiberglass shower stall unit.  It's on the main floor with basement underneath -- unfinished so I can get a clear view of what's going on.  This has leaked for a long long time (just a little bit).  We always thought it was perhaps a pipe but as it got worse, I went down the other day and watched as water ran in the shower.  Leaking was occurring right at the drain.

I can see the ring of the bottom part of the shower drain from below and there's what looks like some blown-in insulation around it for whatever reason.  Would it cause too much of a problem if I just tried to use some sort of sealant around the bottom rim of the drain where it meets the pipe.  I actually am thinking that might be where the leak is.  And what do you use and how much of a problem does it create if it doesn't work?  IOW, if I do decide to try some sort of sealant and then later need to replace the drain, will the job be that much more difficult?

Sorry to be such a dolt here -- I really don't want to spend the $$$ for a plumber.  We live in sort of a rural area also so there's always extra for the trip charge on top of everything else.

FWIW, here's a pic (albeit grainy) if what I can see from underneath the shower drain from our basement.
http://www.quailhaven.com/underdrain.jpg

I think there's also leaking from the trap/U-pipe also, but much if not most of the leaking is from the sink drain area.

Thanks again,
Janie G.

[speedball1]

So you can get at the trap and the pipe that goes into the drain. GREAT!  You won't need a set of inside cutters to cut the pipe if you decide to replace the drain.  But before you start to cut pipes and peel out the old drain, try this.  Purchase a small can of clear PVC primer and a tube of clear silicon caulk.  Now brush enough primer around the joint of the drain where it's leaking and try to get some between the rim and the shower floor.  You're preparing the joint to caulk. The primer should be dry in a few minutes time. Now run a small bead of clear silicon caulk around the joint and press it into the joint with your finger so it works its way between the lip of the drain and the shower floor.  Work it in good.   Wipe off any excess and smooth it out. then  let it set up over night.  Next morning test for leaks and tighten the compression nuts on the trap.  If that don't get it click on back and I'll walk you through the replacement.   Have a great evening,  Tom

[labman]

With the additional information that you have access from the bottom and the second picture, I am going to jump in here. Drains have a threaded part that goes in from the top, and then a nut that holds the pipe below and tightens up on the threaded part. Do you have anything big enough to turn what looks like a nut around the pipe on the bottom? Where they sell plumbing supplies, they actually sell wrenches made for the purpose. You also might be able to turn it with a pipe wrench or Channellocks on the round part above the black pipe. If you can unscrew it, you could then pry out the top part of the drain, and examine the pieces and see if you can find any cracks or holes. If you don't see any, you may be able to clean up the pieces, apply some silicone caulk, and put everything back together.

The nut may be very hard to turn. Even a hair dryer might heat it enough to make a difference. A hair dryer would be less likely to melt the plastic parts or set something on fire than a propane torch. If you can't turn it, you could clean everything up, scraping away the insulation looking stuff, and let it dry. Then apply silicone caulk around the groove between the shower floor and the drain. Also apply it around all the joints on the bottom and let dry. If that doesn't fix the problem, you will have only made the problem slightly worse.

Don't worry about the pipe cutter. It is a common tool most needed for cutting metal pipes. Your pipe looks like plastic, perhaps ABS that I have never worked much with. If you do have to remove part of it, you need to figure out what it is and buy the proper fittings and cement. It may say PVC or ABS, look at the fittings carefully. You can also buy fittings that tighten down on any pipe and make tight joints. A riser is simply a vertical section of pipe going up to something. If your pipe is some kind of plastic, you can cut it with any saw and couple it back together if you need to.

Tom should be back with some good ideas too. Having access to the bottom makes this project much easier. Sometime if you didn't have access before the leak, you do after the drywall gets wet.

[speedball1]

Labman gave you good advice about the retaining nut. This is explained more fully on page one of your instructions under the heading, removing Drain Seal System (threaded nut and gasket type). I see by the second picture that you sent that your pipes are ABS and that you apparently do have a threaded nut and gasket type. This makes the job much simpler and a job any home owner can do. Your drain is not glued in so to change out the drain simply remove the old one and follow directions on page two entitled "Wingtite Drain Installation. We have given you two options and we hope that one of them will work for you. In the meantime if you have more questions click on back and Labman and I will be happy to respond. Good luck, Tom

[janieg]

Thanks so much to both of you for your help! It'll take me awhile but I'll be trying these things to see what transpires. As I mentioned, I have a second bath, so I can take my time with this repair job. Wish me luck!

Thanks again! What a wonderful site and wonderful people.

Janie G.

[janieg]

I used the clear silicone caulk plus primer and caulked as instructed. This morning I tested the shower (both running it without a body in it and looking for myself from beneath) and took a shower and noticed no leaks yet. I just want to thank you so much for the help.

I love the Internet and all the wonderful communities like this one who are so informative and helpful.

Thanks again!
Janie G.

[speedball1]

I'm glad things worked out for you.  The labman and I will always be around if you need us.  One more thing, you might want to check and see if the retaining nut is as tight as it can get.  Just have someone hold the drain from twisting while you tight the nut.  However I'm a great believer in "IF it ain't broke don't fix it.  I mentioned the retaining nut only to make you aware that it's possible it may need to be snugged up a bit.  If the drain isn't leaking, don't attempt to fix it.  Have a great weekend, Tom

[diske52]

Hey guys,

Thanks for supporting this site, I've been reading a lot and have been learning quite a bit. Well, lets get down to my question.

I have moved into a house that used to be rented, where the tenant took on the job of fixing the bathroom after water damage. All of his work was with PVC it seems. Besides everything is horrible, this guy obviously didn't research any plumbing, because there isn't even a trap below the bathtub! (If there was a smiley holding his nose, I would use it).

So what I have is a straight pipe coming down from an old type of drain. Straight down to connect into a line, that goes horizontally across to the outside drain system. I believe I can cut off a section between and, using the proper cement, add the trap. Correct?

Would it benefit me to install a new drain as well on the bathtub? Also, half of the shower heads water leaks through the bottom facet, can this be fixed by replacing a "seat" or a type of O-ring?

Thanks in Advance,
If pictures are needed, will do so.
Chuck

[speedball1]

Hey guys,

Thanks for supporting this site, I've been reading alot and have been learning quite a bit. Well, lets get down to my question.

I have moved into a house that used to be rented, where the tenant took on the job of fixing the bathroom after water damage. All of his work was with PVC it seems. Besides everything is horrible, this guy obviously didnt research any plumbing, because there isnt even a trap below the bathtub! (If there was a smiley holding his nose, I would use it).

So what I have is a straight pipe coming down from an old type of drain. Straight down to connect into a line, that goes horizontally across to the outside drain system. I believe I can cut off a section inbetween and, using the proper cement, add in the trap. Correct?

Would it benefit me to install a new drain as well on the bathtub? Also, half of the shower heads water leaks through the bottom faucet, can this be fixed by replacing a "seat" or a type of O-ring?

Thanks in Advance,
If pictures are needed, will do so.
Chuck

Good morning Chuck,

ALL FIXTURES HAVE TO BE TRAPPED!! A untrapped fixture is a direct open connection to the sewer allowing sewer gas to escape. This is your bad smell. Sewer gas is hazardous to you and yourfamilies health and in addition the methane content in it makes it expolsive as well. If the tub drain doesn't leak I would leave it alone.
" Also, half of the shower heads water leaks through the bottom faucet,"
I don't understand the complaint. Are you saying the water drips down from the shower head on the shower valve when the shower is running or the water leaks out of the valve stem? And explain, "half of the shower heads".
How many shower heads do you have and where are they leaking from?
You haven't even began to touch on the vents. Do you have any and are they in code? You may need a plumber to come in and look over your system. It sounds like it needs a major upgrade. Good luck, Tom

[diske52]

Thanks for the reply,

Sorry for the misspellings I was tired when I typed it.

We are having a plumber come to do the work. Yes I need a vent, that part I read over and figured out where and how I could install the vent. As for the trap, I was going to replace the tube under neath and install that myself. However now, we are going to have a plumber come in, and install everything, including some type of mechanical piece that will take care of the vent? I'll find out more on that.

As for right now, I want to add the trap at least immediately, and the 1 shower head (lol at multiple heads) doesn't have all the water going through it, a lot of it is coming out from the bottom faucet.

So since water is coming through the head & the bottom faucet, I assumed that must be a bad seal or some type of o-ring that has to be replaced.

These things I would like to get done now, as the plumber will also be re-doing all the hot and cold lines, since they are so old and of different materials.

Thanks for your reply!

Chuck

[speedball1]

Thanks for the reply,

Sorry for the misspellings I was tired when I typed it.

We are having a plumber come to do the work. Yes I need a vent, that part I read over and figured out where and how I could install the vent. As for the trap, I was going to replace the tube under neath and install that myself. However now, we are going to have a plumber come in, and install everything, including some type of mechanical piece that will take care of the vent? I'll find out more on that.

As for right now, I want to add in the trap at least immediately, and the 1 shower head (lol at multiple heads) doesnt have all the water going through it, alot of it is coming out from the bottom faucet.

So since water is coming through the head & the bottom faucet, I assumed that must be a bad seal or some type of o-ring that has to be replaced.

These things I would like to get done now, as the plumber will also be re-doing all the hot and cold lines, since they are so old and of different materials.

Thanks for your reply!

Chuck

Hey Chuck,

I'm still having a comprehension problem.

"the 1 shower head (lol at multiple heads) doesnt have all the water going through it, alot of it is coming out from the bottom faucet.
So since water is coming through the head & the bottom faucet, I assumed that must be a bad seal or some type of o-ring that has to be replaced."

Are you saying that when you divert the water to the shower head that the water still comes out the spout? Where is the diverter? On the spout or is it in the valve itself. Or have I completely missed your problem entirely? Tom

[diske52]

The diverter is a knob between the hot and cold, which I just turn CCW until it stops. Some of the water is then diverted to the shower head above, however a lot of it continues to run out below through the main faucet. So would this be a problem with the diverter, needing a seal to be replaced? Any thoughts I'd appreciate

Thanks,
Chuck

[speedball1]

The diverter is a knob inbetween the hot and cold, which I just turn CCW until it stops. Some of the water is then diverted to the shower head above, however alot of it continues to run out below through the main faucet. So would this be a problem with the diverter, needing a seal to be replaced? Any thoughts I'd appreciate

Thanks,
Chuck

OK Chuck,
Now I understand, (and by the way, a "faucet" is what you have on the kitchen sink, lavatory or your tub. You're referring to a "spout".)
You have a bad washer on your diverter.
Remove the knob and cover plate. You will find a brass nut underneath. This is called the packing retaining nut. Remove that and back the stem and washer assembly out counterclockwise. Replace the washer, or two if applicable. Good luck, Tom

[diske52]

Hey thanks for the reply, I've been showering at my girlfriends ;)

Tonight I had some time so I took off the knob with a screwdriver. Then I was able to remove 1 plastic stem coming off plastic stem, both joining through their gear looking plastic ends.

Then proceeded to the packing retaining nut with a large socket. Once off, I noticed a decent looking plastic o-ring on it, and no o-ring inside of it.

Now I just took off the housing, and I see the 2nd piece of the plastic stem, another plastic o-ring, and a circular brass ring. I cannot get the 2nd plastic stem piece and the other housing to come out, do I need to use a strap or something around the circular part? Please look at the pictures.

Thanks again,
Chuck

[speedball1]

OK Chuck,
I've started a file on you. Now I need the brand name of the valve and its approximate age to be able to be specific as to the repair. Thanks, Tom

[diske52]

Tom,

The brand is a MOEN, I cannot seem to find any part numbers, except on the plastic eh, connector that joins between the knob and the actual inside assembly, it has the numbers ""96752". As for the age, lol well you saw the pictures I hope. This beautiful system came free with the house, and by looking at it, I can only guess it was installed 5-10 years ago.

Would you like for me to find specific part numbers or provide other pictures?

Thanks for your time Tom,

Chuck

[speedball1]

Tom,

The brand is a MOEN, I cannot seem to find any part numbers, except on the plastic eh, connector that joins between the knob and the actual inside assembly, it has the numbers ""96752". As for the age, lol well you saw the pictures I hope. This beautiful system came free with the house, and by looking at it, I can only guess it was installed 5-10 years ago.

Would you like for me to find specific part numbers or provide other pictures?

Thanks for your time Tom,

Chuck

Hi Chuck,

Looks like you have a Moen Château Mod.# 2995 Three Handle Tub and Shower Valve. Put a pair of pliers on the threaded brass retainer and back it out. Now pull the diverter assembly out and replace the diverter with a Moen Replacement Diverter Kit Part # 945-43. Take the old diverter in when you go just to make sure it's the correct one. Good luck, Tom