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dneuman · Aug 2, 2004, 03:02 PM

Hello,
I have read about a product that claims to glue copper fittings together instead of soldering them. Lets just say that this product works as advertised. The product is called just for copper and they have a website www.justforcopper.com. What I am trying to figure out is, is gluing the fittings together a good idea? I talked to someone at the company and they said that the glue is non-conductive. There would be no electrical connection from one fitting to another? I can't decide if that's a bad idea or not? Around here the hot and cold water lines are required to be grounded. Would the glued copper be like using plastic in that sense? I am trying to imagine a scenario where the copper not being able to carry current to ground would be really bad?
Thanks,
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA

labman · Aug 2, 2004, 05:22 PM

There was talk some years ago about using epoxy instead of lead based solder for joining copper pipe. This was to avoid problems with lead leaching out into the drinking water. I see no reason it shouldn't work. You would still need to follow the same discipline about cleaning the joints good first just as is the secret to sweat fitting.

Electricians tend to view any copper pipe as a excellent ground. An electrician might think he grounded something by running a wire to the nearest water pipe. Of course as long as there was water in the pipe, it would still conduct.

This is something I have read about. Tom may have actually worked with it. If so, listen to him.

dneuman · Aug 2, 2004, 05:37 PM

So maybe as long as any electricians know they can't use the copper piping as a ground it would be okay? I'm trying to imagine some scenario where somehow a hot wire got shorted to a length of pipe. If this length of pipe was insulated by the glue what would happen if you touched the tap?
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA

labman · Aug 2, 2004, 07:38 PM

Likely not much. The tap should still be grounded through the water. Even if it isn't, you would be OK as long as you don't touch anything that is grounded.

nohub · Aug 3, 2004, 06:40 AM

As a plumber I would only recommend sweating the joint using a lead free solder.

speedball1 · Aug 3, 2004, 06:47 AM

Hey Dan, Good morning Lab,
I have not been exposed to this product and after first glance and studying the specs it looks like it might replace solder.
However, there are a few things that disturb me.
(1) The longest time frame in the test platform was 480 hours. I remember when PB, (polybutylene) pipe first came out. It was touted as less costly, easy to install, and as the next replacement for copper and galvanized. After it had been in for a while the leaks started. Now there are class action suits against the manufacturer. I question how it would hold up after 20 years and if I used it at all I wouldn't use it inside a wall where it would be covered up.
(2) If the male end of the copper pipe were a little over 0.25 mm out of round you would have a leak. The glue won't fill a space any larger then that. Copper will flow out and bond a out of round pipe.
Much has been said about the lead in solder. We have been usingsolder for over 40 years in all of our new construction and haven't heard of a single case of reported lead poisoning.
About the electrical grounding, Labman was 100% correct when he said the water would ground out the system, however, until the system was pressured up the only piece grounded would be the length of pipe he attached the ground wire to. I imagine the electrical inspector would make him ground to earth.
Bottom line?
I would want to see how this product holds up over a few years before I piped a house using it. The memory of the PB Pipe debacle is still fresh in my mind. Cheers, Tom