[QLP]

Thanks PP. I really do appreciate the supportive comments.

I'm as sure as I can be that he didn't have an affair. Believe it or not that would be almost a relief - as I would have something I could make sense of! I think it's more that he has built some kind of fantasy in his head which has taken a grip big time. I think most of his frustration is about the fact that he isn't getting what he wants from this woman - which he calls friendship. I think it's something to do with wanting his youth back. I suppose that's what they call a mid-life crisis, but how long do these things last for goodness sake? When he was working with her the crew went out and he did a lot of socialising. More than he ever did since he was a young man. Even wanted to go nightclubbing and the like which is so out of character, he's normally more of a nature lover and quieter type. She was the one that generally arranged things and is younger and very 'fun loving' I gather. 'A free-spirit' is how he put it.

The whole friendship and socialising generally has become much more important to him than it used to be. However, we went to a party at the weekend and he didn't join in and enjoy it at all. He seemed unwell, and was actually sick, but then he got better quickly when we got home. I think it was nerves.

Sorry I don't know if this makes much sense, I'm having a hard time working it out myself. Something about this woman made him want to be all young and sociable but it's sort of in his head and when it comes to it the reality is it's not what he goes for.

He complains now and again that he never has sex but he doesn't offer and turns me down, and yet says he wouldn't want sex with anyone but me.

He moans that we don't socialise enough but when I try and arrange things he finds reasons to say no or seems really uncomfortable if we do go out with people etc.

He complains he doesn't see enough of his friends but rarely calls them. When any of the people he worked with when working with this woman calls then he can't jump fast enough. But then he gets depressed if she herself isn't involved.

He mooches around looking bored. Sometimes he asks me if I 'want to do something'. If I suggest going for a walk he's generally happy. Most other things he doesn't seem to fancy. But then he complains we don't do much. If I ask him to suggest something he gets grumpy and doesn't. I really don't think he can think of what to do.

The best way I can explain it is that he thinks he wants certain things but when he can have them he finds he doesn't. I think he knows he can't really have what he wants from this woman so he is blaming me instead of her. The thing is I'm almost sure if he could be with her he probably wouldn't want to anyway. The last time he did see her he did nothing but complain about her afterwards. She hadn't called him, she didn't do this, say that - i.e. the picture he has in his head wasn't fulfilled. Then he said he wasn't contacting her because he is fed up and angry with her. Now he seems to have forgotten this and seems to think it's me who isn't allowing him to see her - even though I suggested inviting her round!

Ok, even I don't know what I am talking about now lol.?

He won't do counselling. Unfortunately money is really tight at the moment, and when I said I would like to go alone he asked me to wait till we can afford it better, which I can't really argue with, though I think money is not the only reason.

You know I think the only thing left might be for me to invite her round against his wishes, and risk his wrath, it's not like he's in a good mood with me anyway - he needs a reality check here.

Good or bad idea?

[positiveparent]

Hi Again, I see that this is also causing you to lose sleep, as I notice you too are online, and its only 4:45am or approx.

I do know men go through a kind of male menopause, how long it lasts for Ive no idea. No where near as long as women's though as far as I know.

Whatever the cause of your husbands change of personality though it cannot go on like this for much longer, before it could easily cause you to have a breakdown, or similar, no one can live on a knife edge and not become ill over it, thank God you've held up for this long.

Im at a loss for what to suggest, you've tried talking to him, compromising, making allowances and meeting him more than half way, short of smacking him over the head, I really wouldn't know what you can do.

It must be awful having to live like this, especially when your attempts to resolve these issues aren't being met half way.

My only thought is counselling, of some description but you say he wants you to wait until he can afford for you to both go, but Im thinking that could be anything from 5 weeks to 5 years and I feel you yourself need some help to get to grips with all of this now and I mean NOW.

Could you not go on your own without telling him, sneaky maybe, but he hasn't been totally up front himself at times.

I know I am not being much by way of offering any solution, but it appears he is making this very difficcult, Ill have a word with some relate colleagues I have and see what they can suggest for now I hope this helps if only a little.

Please hang in there, This will improve its got to. Ill get back to you later about what Ive written here. Sending you positive energy and healing vibes. (((((QLP))))) for you...

[positiveparent]

Re read your last post and I agree he needs a reality check, and making him face his demons sos to speak could be just what is needed here to make him wake up to himself, as you've stated he's not being all that friendly towards you anyway, so what do you have to lose.?

I would do just that and get this female over to your place without him knowing you're doing so, and then he will have no choice but to deal with it.

Good luck and go for it.
Marianne.

[QLP]

Thanks again PP. Feeling a bit better now I have slept on it. Yes I was late to bed, and although him stressing me out does contribute at times, I have a sleep disorder to start with so it's not that unusual. I know you yourself often don't sleep until late - there really ought to be a club for us lol. Or maybe this is it. :)

Ok thoughts now I'm feeling a bit fresher...

I think he is starting to get depressed because his fantasy is starting to fall apart. Obviously I don't want him miserable but reality has to be a step forwards from delusion. I think. It's not lilke I'm a psychologist so I'm not sure.

I'm thinking maybe I will hold steady for a bit longer and do nothing. Not because I'm chickening out but for 2 reasons.

Firstly, if I'm right I don't want to be the one to shatter that fantasy totally as I think it's better if he sees it himself. Although he has these moments of blaming me I think it's his way of desperately trying to cling to the fantasy and I think I sense the cracks growing.

Secondly I remembered that she is going on holiday in August and promised to ring him when she got back. If she does then we can take it from there. I will encourage him to invite her over again or try and get a night out with us all organised. If there's going to be a friendship let's get it on a proper footing. If she doesn't then hopefully he will remember (or get reminded if needs be!) that this is not my doing and start working through his feelings of rejection.

I think it is the fact that he hopes, but doesn't actually expect, her to get in touch after her holiday that is keeping this thing going in his head. So it seems sensible to let that play out first.

If it is showing no signs of resolution by then I will have to act.

So I've given myself a deadline at least.

[talaniman]

Sometimes the best course of action is doing nothing at this point, because your driving yourself crazy trying to fix the problems of Mr. Grumpy.

Whatever is his problem, back away and make sure you're not making his problem yours, that ruins your own enjoyment. If he is indeed putting so much on a friendship with this female, that it makes a stress for those around him then that's something he has to see for himself, and correct. Coddling and indulging him also I think enables him, and why even put up with an attitude when you can show your displeasure by leaving his cranky a$$ alone for a time.

You are the reality he has to deal with, not her. Do for yourself, and let him drown in his own sh1t, for a change.

[QLP]

Thanks for that talan. I must admit I have been trying to do that lately to an extent. Luckily I'm a person that can quite easily find my own ways to make me happy if I'm not getting what I want from significant others. I do however get pretty stressed when I'm being got at for no good reason, i.e. being accused of 'dictating' and 'banning contact' etc when I haven't. I'm trying to cultivate an air of keeping cool and just stating the facts when faced with this but it does involve a certain amount of teeth gritting at times. Getting angry and arguing the toss just doesn't work as he simply can't hear me atm so I am working harder at simply stating the case then leaving him to stew in it. Thanks for helping me feel that's a good thing to keep trying, it will help my resolve. I'm a bit of a softie when I see anyone suffering but it is time I remembered to put my suffering up there too.

[Rastaban]

QLP, you mentioned that you wanted to go alone to therapy. Please find a way to make financial arrangements to do that. This is a torturous journey for you and it could really help you to speak with a good therapist. I have a friend who is on a very tight budget but for a while she has made the space for therapy and does not regret it one bit. I am also in therapy and it keeps me grounded during the toughest times. A good therapist can help you move through an enormous and complex problem like this more effectively than you could alone. A good therapist will reconnect you with your semse pf basic rights as a spouse, which in my humble opinion, are somewhat lost to you.

I see a couple things from all of your posts. First, you are such a strong woman. You have clearly kept your head on your shoulders during an extremely difficult, prolonged period of marital hardship. The compliments you have received from others are well earned.

One thing struck me. Your husband didn't want to upset this other woman. Meanwhile you are devastated. Why does he care about her feelings so much but your feelings are a threat, an obstruction, and an inconvenience to him? You are his WIFE and your feelings should be very important to him.

He has a big problem with his perception that you are too controlling, a "dictator" as he puts it. Have you ever considered listening to his concerns, like you wish he would listen to yours? Another poster suggested that he would be very different if you turned the tables on him, e.g. became intensely interested in another man in the same way as he is with this woman. I'm not suggesting you try that but on the other hand, just for the sake of exploring your options, have you ever considered letting go of everything you hold dear in your marriage and just free floating on paths away from your husband? You see, the reason I'm illuminating that possibility is because it seems you have been chasing your husband for a very long time. He has been running away. Have you ever considered that you may be enabling his running by chasing him? Is it possible that when he accuses you of being a "dictator" he's asking for his freedom from you? I think it probably has occurred to you and given you love him so deeply and he is your husband of 25 years, letting go would seem destructive and appalling. It may ruin your marriage and leave you alone. If you are thinking like that, deep down, take a moment to realize that you are making your decisions based in fear. Forget about the affair for a moment (that is, after all, what it is) and think about you, the way you are treating yourself every day, chasing after a man who should be honoring you, loving you, giving you his attention, and living his life with you. He should be able to chase after his woman on occasion, even after 25 years. Yet challenge yourself to stop looking at him as the sole problem here (even if it is rooted in his affair) and start looking at yourself. Do you have days where your feelings tell you to move forward and try new things in your life that do not involve him but you balk at them, fearing the consequences? I'm not saying you should run off impulsively and do whatever on a whim. What I am suggesting is to consider changing your perspective so that you are viewing the situation from how you respond to it, rather than all the ways in which your husband doesn't respond the way you think he should.

If you are always chasing him and he is running, then you set yourself up as the superior spouse and he is the one that is inferior, ruining your marriage and making your life a living hell. You are constantly in the good spouse position where you are out to fix your relationship and he is always in the bad spouse position where he is out of control, making bad decisions, and acting out emotionally. If that is a case, is there a hidden reward for you in maintaining that position?

I hope that I haven't offended you too much. I understand that he has put you in an awful position in your marriage, it is unfair, and it has been exceedingly painful. You are entitled to your feelings of anguish and disappointment. I suppose I am playing the devil's advocate here but what I am saying is, have you ever actually considered honoring his wishes to let him be and go do what he wants, regardless of the consequences?

What if you did? What if you let go and went into free fall? What if it was up to him to wake up from his passivity and catch you, the woman he loves and wants to spend the rest of his life with? What if he didn't catch you? Would you survive? Would you find a way to live your life that could fulfill you emotionally and psychologically?

[QLP]

Well frankly I have got to the point where it is all rather tiresome so I have indeed been focusing on my own things.

Haven't really thought about it much except when I was trying out some special recipes for a friend of ours who has several food intolerances. I said to hubby, 'well I hope K likes this because I have been faffing about all day to get it right.' He said, 'well you wouldn'd be having that problem if X was coming to dinner instead.' X being 'the woman'. I just said, 'invite her anytime, no problem.' - which I have said numerous times now. No idea why he keeps acting like I have prevented all contact when I suggested us getting together etc but to be honest I'm tired of trying to work it out.

The fact is I can't be bothered to worry about it any more. We are on reasonable terms, and if he wants to get closer he knows where I am. He wanted space to sort out his head so we will see. If this continues in the long term, and it's already gone on a fair while, I will have some serious thinking to do, but for now I'm leaving him to stew and enjoying my own time.

So thanks for the post Rastaban, I don't think we are too far off the same page right now. I appreciate your thoughts as well as your kind remarks.

[QLP]

Quick update. Things seem a lot better. Much more positive attitude from hubby despite the fact that I know his work situation is ridicululously stressful atm, something that often makes him grumpy. I have to say knowing the situtation it must be the worst he ever had to deal with and no likelihood of improvement for at least 3 months but he comes home, says he is stressed, chats for a bit, then seems to deal.

Being much nicer to me. Not mentioned X and I haven't asked. I'm still wary as to whether it will last and where it is going but still have my own stuff to keep me busy and enjoying our relationship more. We will see, but better for now.

[Cat1864]

I am glad things seem to be getting better. :)

[QLP]

I can't believe I'm back on this thread again. It is well over a year since I first posted this and it is still not resolved. I have given him plenty of space to work on this, have said I can accept it as a friendship if he acts the same way as he would in any other friendship. He is much more open about it and is happy for me to see all their e-mails. However I just don't feel he is emotionally available a lot of the time in this marriage and that his head is still more fixated on this woman that he is now back to e-mailing daily and seems to be constantly thinking about.

He recently confided that, 'when I met her my spirit soared, our souls recognised one another, and I believe she was my daughter in a past life.'

I haven't a clue what to make of that! It seems like some weird non-sexual infatutaion to me but I'm no expert on past lives so what do I know. Maybe it's true...

I'm due to meet her in 2 weeks, if it happens. It has been on the cards a few times and has yet to materialise, so we shall see.

I have been getting increasingly stressed again so I have booked myself a counselling session. He nearly succeeded in talking me out of it, which has happened a few times, but I need this regardless of what he does next.

I have to wait 2 weeks for my first session and it will fall a day or 2 before I meet this woman. I'm hoping that if nothing else it will help me to see how best to deal with that situation. Although I am a bit worried as to whether that is good timing really?

I'm not sure what I am asking right now, guess I'm just feeling a bit scared and also chomping on the bit to get into that counselling as I feel I could really do with talking to someone now.

If anyone has any advice I would be glad to hear it. If not, thanks for the venting space.

[Cat1864]

QP, being scared is okay. It's better you talk here instead of bottling your feelings up inside.
:)

I am very curious about why he would talk you out of seeing a therapist in the past. If he tries again, don't let him.

Why haven't you been able to meet her? What keeps happening to change plans?

What are his relationships like with the female members of his family? Is he subconsciously using her as a substitute for other relationships?

Big hug. Don't Panic.:D

[QLP]

Whenever I have mentioned counselling in the past there are various issues. If it involves him coming along he says things like, 'it will only make things worse,' or 'what so they can take sides?'

I have stopped trying to talk him round, by assuring him that isn't what it is about, and started focusing on just me going. When I do this he either mentions money (which is tight fair enough) or says, that's drastic I didn't realise you felt that bad I will change. Which he does for a while. Trouble is as soon as I relax and things feel OK, he changes and things go back to being a problem again. It's as though he panics and sorts his act out but it doesn't last or isn't really working. Not sure why the panic when I say I want counselling.

Anyway the appointment is booked and I intend to keep it.

Something just keeps coming up, somehow, on her side, when we are supposed to meet. The only reason it looks to be on the cards in a couple of weeks is because hubby has promised her a spare hutch for the rabbit she is planning to get for her daughter. So she is coming to collect that and meet me supposedly. She doesn't seem particularly keen on getting together. But she does e-mail him daily and lately has been asking him to get her a job with him.

Mmm family. He had a difficult relationship with his mum but she died a few years ago. His relationship with our daughter went downhill when he met this woman. They actually both had very similar work roles within his company and he compared them, not to our daughter's favour. Our daughter and himself get along better now but she isn't at home all that often now and they seem to get on better when they don't see too much of each other. He doesn't really have much other female contact. He makes no effort with any of his old female friends. If anything he seems to push other women away now, except this one. He says she's 'not like other women - she likes rugby, she's really nice, she's yada yada... '
It's like he was one person the day before he met her, and has been a different one since. He doesn't make any effort with his male friends or his son either.Our son lives 200 miles away so we only see him every few months. I mean he never e-mails or phones his own kids, so that's why the fact he has to have contact with this one person every day seems disproportionate to me.

Thanks for the hug. :)

[talaniman]

Hi again QLP, and thanks for making me read this whole thing again. Seems to me that this friendship with this female drives you nuts and you seem to put anything that happens between you and hubby clearly in her lap. I think you have made her the boogy man for all you uncomfortable feelings. I have seen this happen many times from the fear of the unknown, and I feel that's what's happening now. Actually is normal for one partner to be very displeased with a part of the others lives that they don't share. Especially one that involves another person. Sometimes it's a habit, or hobby that triggers these fears, but its even more profound when the partner engages in behavior that the other can not participate in. accept fully, or doesn't have enough facts to make a reasonable decision to accept or relate to what their partner is doing. Or who they have chosen to associate with.

I think on some level your husband needs the attention, and connection some other female besides you gives him, especially given he has only you and a daughter whom he doesn't really get on with that well. Heck he didn't get along that great with his mom, and has no sisters.

I think at the root of this whole issue is that you don't know this female at all on a personal level, so are suspicious of her, and that's normal, and natural. I am willing to bet that fear is greatly heightened and magnified during trying times, and gets a bit unmanageable.

Your husband needs to know where that fear comes from, so he can see the problem for himself and take steps to resolve this issue. If I were him, I would make sure that you new her and your fears could be addressed, because its never a good idea to have opposite sex friends, good friends any way, that your partner can't/doesn't know. If this was a sister or daughter he spent some much tie and attention on, or got attention from, you would be as worried, unless you didn't like them at all.

But as long as she is an unknown female, you will always be worried. I would too, to be honest, if I were in your shoes. The only way to confront fear, is with FACTS, as this is not a matter of trusting your husband, its trusting HER, and her motives, agenda, character, or behavior. You know NONE of these things so of course you are insecure about this "friendship".

If you knew he was a father figure, mentor, brother figure, or just a real friend, yo her, you wouldn't be as worried. Your husband needs to know that your fear lies with YOU, not knowing HER enough to trust her, like her, or feel comfortable with her in his life. That's normal, natural, and fixable, with some real honesty between the two of you.

So far you are helpless to get those facts, but you have too, and see for yourself what you are actually afraid of, so you know what to do about it. Knowing what your dealing with goes a long way to resolving issues of FEAR, that leads to jealousy, insecurity, and even curiosity, so a plan of action based on FACTS, and not just FEELINGS, can be pursued.

She is probably as scared of you, as you are her, NO DOUBT, as you both may be afraid of the changes that mat come of this meeting.

[QLP]

I think on some level your husband needs the attention, and connection some other female besides you gives him, especially given he has only you and a daughter whom he doesn't really get on with that well. Heck he didn't get along that great with his mom, and has no sisters.

Sorry I forgot to mention he does have a sister. He just doesn't bother with her anymore. He also had male and female friends that he doesn't bother with anymore. I'm not blaming this woman as such, well at least I'm trying not to... :rolleyes: I just don't understand why his whole personality changed and he lost interest in everyone except her from the day they met. It's like suddenly nobody else measures up to this woman and so they don't interest him anymore. Even if I weren't one of the people being deprived of his attention since he met her I think I would be concerned about his behaviour for his benefit.

I do accept that I may be putting all my apples in one cart inappropriately here in blaming his new friendship for the fact that he has switched off to everything else.

I just don't know how else to handle things. I am willing to meet her, and have said so for a long time but he wasn't willing, then she wasn't willing, and then there was always some reason for it not to happen. Since I told him I am going to counselling he is trying to talk me out of meeting her again anyway. He is afraid the counsellor might say something which will then cause me to say something which will upset her in some way.

Also he seemed to get on fine with his daughter until he met this woman. He got miffed with our daughter because he didn't think she was doing the job as well as this woman. It was our daughter's first job at 18 and this woman was in her 30s and had been doing it years. Incidentally our daughter earned a promotion within 6 months and was highly valued by other people so she can't have been doing that badly. Our daughter actually moved to her boyfriends and said one of the reasons was she couldn't stand the way her dad was behaving. Now she only sees him occaisonally and it is better but I can't call them close. I want things to improve for them too. I have to keep things he has said to myself about our daughter that I know would upset her. Even if he were fine with me the situation with his own child would be upsetting me.

Sorry, guess I'm rambling a bit. I really do need to talk this through with a counsellor I know.

[talaniman]

LOL. I can relate to your frustration as, I too also want all the people in my world to get along, so I can be happy, and fixers/peacemakers like us just find it very hard when things are not happy, smooth, or have conflicts. We see this as needing fixing, and when we can't we get frustrated. We have a hard time understanding why they don't go along with our "FIXES" the way we want them too. And its so hard to accept thing may never be as smooth and happy as we want them to be because they are humans, and are flawed and unpredictable in their words, actions, and behavior. FRUSTRATING aren't they? Drives me nuts, when they don't see the logic in our suggestions.

Its hard adjusting to the nuts I am surrounded with, but they are so busy doing their thing, whether I like it or not, that they often just ignore me. Hey, just trying to help!!

I am perfect, and want them to be perfect, but they don't want to be, so what's a perfect person to do, besides being frustrated?? And don't tell me I am not perfect, who the hell do you think you are? LOL!!

You would be surprised at how many times a day I say the SERENITY PRAYER, and say to hell with these imperfect people, they don't listen any way, and do my own thing, which is PERFECT of course.

[QLP]

Oh hell yes I'm a fixer - I practically have a trowel for a left hand, can't leave alone. Maybe, just maybe, the counselling will help with that lol.

Most annoyingly, having had barely a grunt, let alone a hug from hubby for weeks, I mention I'm going to counsellling and suddenly I'm showered with attention and affection. I did enjoy it, but why only now?
Something nice comes from him every time I mention counselling, but now I actually booked something I got the best hubby ever.
Course I shouldn't complain but guess what - I am - well not actually complaining but wondering what the heck??

I know I sound like the whingiest ***** on the planet right now. I have been holding it in so long it's like the biggest verbal fart in history needed release. Sorry I'm not only verbose but uncouth today.

Sweetness and light will be resumed asap.

* That's a lady doggy above. That's the first time I ever got bleeped out by the swear filter. Just shows what a moody moo I am right now.

[QLP]

Hubby is really rattled about me going to counselling. He has a nervous tummy whenever he is stressed which is playing up. It feels bad to hear someone chucking their breakfast back up because of something I'm doing. I have to keep reminding myself I'm not doing anything wrong here, I'm only asking for help.

He started asking me when I'm going. I explained we arranged for the first session to be a telephone appointement so that he (the counsellor) can get an intitial feel for things quickly then take it from there, and that it is booked for the 21st.

He said, 'it's a man? Wouldn't you be better talking to a woman?' I said I just wanted to find a counsellor that I thought seemed good and was local and wasn't concerned about gender and asked why a man is a problem. He then said, 'well wouldn't a woman be more likely to agree with you?'

I don't think that question was actually at the heart of why he doesn't want me seeing a man but I just explained that I wasn't looking for a pity party, that a good counsellor wouldn't give me one, and that I was looking for solutions not someone to take sides.

He then asked why I need a counsellor and said, 'I'm not doing anything wrong you know.' I tried to explain I felt he was not emotionally available, and that I may be wrong in thinking his friendship is the problem, but I hope the counsellor will help me to get some perspective and I'm more than happy to hear if I'm understanding things all wrong.

He pointed out he was emotionally available last night, which I agreed had been great but I needed to know that things were going to be OK for the long term. He said he will keep trying.

I'm feeling OK today, just needed to keep talking as I feel that he is really trying to pull me away from the counselling and I'm worried that if I cancel it will all be back to square one. I would be very happy to tell the counsellor that things are looking better if they are and see what happens but I need to get off this rollarcoaster of everything depending on how hubby behaves one day to the next.

[CarrotTalker]

Whatever you do, do not cancel that appointment.

I have a feeling that this is a form of manipulation and trying to get you to feel guilty for something you didn't do.

It's ridiculous that he thinks he can start being emotionally available for such a short period, after previous times where he wasn't, and everything is OK again. That requires a lot of hard work on his part and explaining of himself, so that you can become comfortable with him again. It's not a quick fix like he would like.

Look, I could be TOTALLY wrong, but based on what I've read that is my opinion.

[QLP]

I do feel like I'm being maniupulated but at the same time I do find it hard not to feel guilty that he is suffering. But then I think well I have been suffering and it needs fixing. Thanks for the encouragement, helping me stay strong. :)