[George_1950]

Hello George:

Speak softly and carry a big stick... West African proverb.

excon

Naaaa, you mis-speak: It is, Speak softly and denigrate your country. Obama

[speechlesstx]

Proverbs 17:7

[NeedKarma]

Hosea 13:16
Deuteronomy 23:1
Ezekiel 23:19-20
Deuteronomy 25:11-12

[excon]

Hello again, Righty's:

If the only argument you got left is scripture, then my job here is done.

excon

[George_1950]

Hello again, Righty's:

If the only argument you got left is scripture, then my job here is done.

excon

Didn't want you and yours to think you owned it partner.

[Fr_Chuck]

John 4:4 ( has nothing to do with the question, but heck I like bible verses also.

I think he did the proper think, bowing is a custom much like the handshake in the US, and had he not bowed, it would have been very disrespectful.

I am glad he did, it was the proper form of greeting.

[inthebox]

I find it odd that NK quotes the bible, a book he does not believe in. That is like me quoting out of the mouth of the "flying spaghetti monster."

I don't think it is a bad thing [ sorry about the double negative ] for a US president to be aware of a cultural norm and show humilty and respect, but I find the bow gratuitous compared to the bow the Japanese gave.

So what is next? The next time a championship team visits the Whitehouse, will POTUS Obama pour gatorade on the coach [ Calipari ;) ]?


G&P

[George_1950]

He can bow, show humility, and apologize, in private.

[speechlesstx]

Hello again, Righty's:

If the only argument you got left is scripture, then my job here is done.

NK is a righty?

[ETWolverine]

John 4:4 ( has nothing to do with the question, but heck I like bible verses also.

I think he did the proper think, bowing is a custom much like the handshake in the US, and had he not bowed, it would have been very disrespectful.

I am glad he did, it was the proper form of greeting.

I just spent half the day with a bunch of Korean bankers. I didn't bow to a single one of them, and nobody took it amiss. They were quite well aware of the fact that I am an American and they were not insulted by the fact that I didn't bow to them, despite the fact that ONE OF THEM WAS MY BOSS. Nobody had a problem with it. (My boss even bought me lunch today, which he would not have done if he was insulted.)

Sorry, but I don't buy the line that the President of the USA should be bowing to ANYONE. He is NOT expected to do so, and not doing so is NOT taken as an insult. Anyone who argues that it is an insult has not actually dealt with the Asian community for very long. Frankly, Asians in general and Japanese in specific don't get insulted by that sort of thing. Japanese are some of the friendliest, most polite people in the world, and they don't get insulted by someone not bowing to them, especially when that person outranks them in the social/political strata.

The idea that someone will get insulted if the President of the USA doesn't bow to them is a myth. We've been dealing with the Japanese for over 100 years now, and no President has ever bowed to one of their dignitaries... and nobody has taken insult from it.

The idea that they would is pure BS made up by Hollywood movie-makers who like chop-saki stories about comic-book Samurai who get insulted easily and then spend the rest of the film trying to "avenge their honor".

Get real folks.

Elliot

[ETWolverine]

I find it odd that NK quotes the bible, a book he does not believe in. That is like me quoting out of the mouth of the "flying spaghetti monster."

Wait... you don't believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster? What kind of heretic are you?!

:eek:

Elliot

[George_1950]

...
Sorry, but I don't buy the line that the President of the USA should be bowing to ANYONE. ...

The idea that someone will get insulted if the President of the USA doesn't bow to them is a myth.
...
Elliot

Political correctness, run amuck, indeed.

[excon]

The idea that they would is pure BS made up by Hollywood movie-makers who like chop-saki stories about comic-book Samurai who get insulted easily and then spend the rest of the film trying to "avenge their honor".

Hello again, Elliot:

Here's another thing you guys miss. The IDEA of diplomacy isn't to avoid insulting people. It's to engage with them.. Honoring them, even if not doing so wouldn't insult them, is a good thing.

That would be, of course, if you understood diplomacy and even just plain good manners. Alas, and alack - you don't. Now, bombing is something you understand.. But, talking about stuff - not so much.

Besides, the only ones who're insulted by his greeting is you guys, and Obama don't you guys crap.

excon

[ETWolverine]

Hello again, Elliot:

Here's another thing you guys miss. The IDEA of diplomacy isn't to avoid insulting people. It's to engage with them.. Honoring them, even if not doing so wouldn't insult them, is a good thing.

That would be, of course, if you understood diplomacy and even just plain good manners. Alas, and alack - you don't. Now, bombing is something you understand.. But, talking about stuff - not so much.

Besides, the only ones who're insulted by his greeting is you guys, and Obama don't you guys crap.

excon

So @$$-kissing is now "engagement". The President not bowing down to foreign leaders is "bad manners".

That's what you get when you have a lib in power redefining common terminology for political purposes... in this case, in order to 'apologize' for the evils of the USA.

Sorry, excon, but not bowing down to the Japanese wasn't "bad manners" before Obama came to office, and it ain't "bad manners" today. And we were engaged with the Japanese for the past 60 years, nothing has changed that would make us have to engage them further today.

It's just @$$-kissing, plain and simple.

Elliot

[speechlesstx]

Here's another thing you guys miss. The IDEA of diplomacy isn't to avoid insulting people. It's to engage with them.. Honoring them, even if not doing so wouldn't insult them, is a good thing.

My first post on the subject noted that even the Japanese didn't want an American president that looked weak, which is what they saw in this bow. Is that how we honor them, by showing we're weak?

That would be, of course, if you understood diplomacy and even just plain good manners. Alas, and alack - you don't. Now, bombing is something you understand.. But, talking about stuff - not so much.

And what about our norm which is American presidents shouldn't bow to monarchs? Keep at it though ex, you'll have plenty more opportunities to defend the amateur you guys elected.

[tomder55]

O is for Obsequious .
Plain and simple American Presidents are the EQUAL of any foreign leader. Bowing is a sign of subservience and submission . In the world of diplomacy that type of symbolism is treated seriously . Our allies don't expect it and our enemies see it as a sign of weakness .Neither Japan or the US needs an American President that appears weak. If someone can show me this bow in the Japanese press I'll be surprised.

These are freshman errors that the Obama administration should've corrected by now.

Besides symbolism what is this President actually accomplishing on his 7th apology tour junket ? Has he a deal yet to stop the NORK nukes ? Nope.Has he made progress on Iran ? No ,he has run into a dead end and even he has to see his style of personal diplomacy doesn't impress the Mahdi Hatter and the Ayatollahs. An arms reduction treaty with Russia is about to expire with no new one negotiated yet. And yesterday he disappointed the Europeans by saying that Copenhagen talks are DOA .

If someone can show me all his peers at these Asian summits bowing to the cermonial Emperor of Japan then I'll prehaps believe it is some custom that if ignored would be an insult to the Japanese.
Meanwhile this novice President who is so concerned about appearances gave a hearty greeting to the thug dictator of Myanmar... oops I mean Burma ,Gen. Thein Sein,. while at the same time refusing to meet with fellow Peace Prize recipient the Dhali Lama .

This President makes no lip service at all about human rights abuses in China. It used to be a practice for the Chinese, in a gesture of good will,to release a dissident ,a political prisoner or two when an American President or Sec State was visiting . On this trip they are arresting dissidents. He held a town hall in Shanghai of hand picked students that the Chinese heavily censored .Reporters were told to stop questioning the students after the event . And he knowingly participated in the charade.
But has he come away with a trade agreement with the Chinese or even an understanding towards one ? None that I can tell. The last I saw he was engaged in a petty trade war with the Chinese that threatens to explode into something significant.

Because he is immune from critique by the MSM they chose to ignore this obvious breach of protocol. But 15 years ago ,Bill Clintoon did a head bow to the Emperor of Japan during one of these events ,and the NY Slimes took him to task .

THE WORLD; The President's Inclination: No, It Wasn't a Bow-Bow - The New York Times

[NeedKarma]

Bowing is a sign of subservience and submission . In the world of diplomacy that type of symbolism is treated seriously . Our allies don't expect it and our enemies see it as a sign of weakness

Really? So what happens now? What earth shattering change of events do you expect to occur because you are now the world's b!tches?

[speechlesstx]

Nope.Has he made progress on Iran ?

Not only that, word is now that El Baradei has made a secret deal to persuade the world to lift sanctions and allow Iran to retain most of it's nuclear program... allegedly (and likely) "to secure his legacy." That my friends, is what Obama is all about, securing his legacy.

[speechlesstx]

Really? So what happens now? What earth shattering change of events do you expect to occur because you are now the world's b!tches?

Are you really that naïve?

[NeedKarma]

Are you really that naive?

You said that it was treated seriously; what did you mean by that?

You may have a point though. The last time a Republican president held hands with a saudi king over 3,000 lives were lost at the hands of terrorists from... Saudi Arabia! Yet you still keep a strong alliance with them. Why is that?