[TerrieS]

I am seeking help for my son. He has tried for years to deal with this situation on his own at no avail. When he was 18 years old he moved out of the house into a roommate situation and they threw a party. A girl at the party decided to sleep with every guy in the house. She found my son passed out on the bathroom floor and forced him to have sex with her.. He told her no and tried to push her off. But he could not stop her. Then came a baby girl. In the beginning my son did not want me to help him with this situation he said he can deal with it. Well the dealings did not go so well he got 20% custody and had to pay top dollar amount of child support. He got to see his little girl once.

After that the family refused to let him see the little girl. The other family kept coming up with excuses that they had plans they where busy. My son struggled to maintain paying child support. There was times he was unemployed and fell behind on child support but he still managed to get another job and still paid. My son in the mean time was married and now divorce has another child who lives with him 100% my grandson is 7 years old. He is a wonderful father to his son. His son is the smartest kid in his second grade class. The mother of the little girl we could not locate her for years. We have finally found them she moved out of the county she was living in before. My son tried calling her and she refuses to return calls. She finally returned one call and said he was a felon. My son has never even been in Jail he is not a felon. I tried to call her and she hung up on me as soon as I said who I was.

This little girl deserves to be with her father and her brother too. She deserves to be with her grandparents too. My grandson keeps asking about his little sister and it is very hard to explain it to him. My son wants 50% custody of the child. We need to know how to make this happen. We do not have a lot of money my son's funds are tapped out because he pays so much child support the mother of the little girl makes 4 times more than he does. He struggles financially to raise his son. He lives with my husband and I and works 70 to 80 hour a week.

My son has gone to the courts legal assistance department numerous times and they keep telling him he has the wrong paper work. The paper work is very confusing. I have even tried calling the child support department and they where very rude to me on the phone.

This is pretty sad when even if he is behind on his child support he is still paying and he can not see the little girl.

My son has not seen his little girl in over 6 years. Can anyone please help us with some advice our how to get a pro bono attorney to help us.. any help would be appreciated..

Thank you,
TerrieS

[JudyKayTee]

The whole "the woman overpowered my son" story is a little hard to accept and makes me think he does not take responsibility for his own actions. That aside -

He needs legal representation. If he cannot afford legal counsel then he has to call your local Bar Association and ask for a referral to someone who offers services either at a reduced fee or no fee.

If it's been six years since he saw the child and he has been actively pursuing visitation for six years... something is being left out of the story.

[stevetcg]

There is nothing YOU can do here. You have no rights. Well, you could theoretically sue for grandparent visitation.

My opinion - and you will not like it - the best thing you can do for your son is stop thinking of him as a victim and stop enabling his lack of action.

[TerrieS]

I am being honest about the story how the child was conceived. But he was passed out on the floor he told me the story before anyone even knew she was pregnant. I told him he needs to report it because either way it is a rape.. he wouldn't do it.. it is a little embarrassing for a guy to do that. The mother I talked to her once and she admitted to what she did to my son on the phone. And yes he has been dodged every time he tried to get help. My son is not a criminal he is a good dad.. and it is not fair to him nor me to keep this little girl away from us.
And least all he does pay child support...
I did mention my son works 60 to 70 hours a week.. and he has a son he takes 100% care of. He has gone to the courts which is not in the same county as we live in numerous times with paper work given to him.. then they tell him he does not have the correct paper work.

If you guys want to believe me or not.. there is a child involved in this situation. And I am seeking help for my son.. if you choose not to help me.. because of the situation is a little shocking.. well I am sorry.. Does your smart comments hurt.. you.. so I guess asking for advice and help is too much..

[TerrieS]

I do not teach my son to be a victem... he did not bumm around all these years with no job and not pay child support... and I did not teach him to be the poor me type guy... He is just bull headed and thought he could handle it himself in the beginning.. shortly after this all came up he was already married with a baby... and obviously if he is a stand up dad who pays attention to his son.. who is only 7 years old.. and smartest little guy in his class.. who can add and subtracts in the thousands because he likes to thank he is just like his dad.. my son did not do such a bad job..
My son wants his daughter... and his rock head finally sees he needs help...
I do not like the way she got pregnant it shocks me.. but there where other people in that house that can verify what happened right down to the girls brother.

[stevetcg]

Terrie... I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but we hear stories similar to this almost daily and they are all hard to believe. It doesn't change the fact that its been 6 years because of him and no other reason. If he was serious about this he would have found a way to pay a lawyer. You said he had 20% custody... has he ever taken her to court to have that enforced? Family court will not turn him away because he doesn't have the right paperwork.

I suspect... and I'm sorry... that you do not have correct information from your son. We have heard them all and this one sounds like BS. Nothing against you... we understand that you are a third party in all of this.

For a solution: save some money. Cut back on whatever possible to save up and hire a lawyer. Chances of him getting 50% custody at this point very slim but he should at least get his legal visitation set up and have enforced what was already awarded to him.

[TerrieS]

Ya, I have heard bs stories too.. I am not stupid.. I had my son when I was 14 years old.. and yes I was raped... the man was over 21... I was legally pregnant at 13. I was to scared to even explain what happen to me.. so the only words that could come out of my mouth was "I don't know".. and it worked because I did not have to see the person ever again. I have worked hard all my life to raise my son decent.. "not trash".. I worked double shifts in restaurants and went to college at the same time just to get a little further a head in life. And there is no father in my sons life. Do you think he would want the same for his own child. My son is the most honest guy I know.. because I am honest.. He is rock head yes a pain in the butt at times yes.. but honest all the time. I never had to worry about that with my son.

When the girl he was dating came up pregnant and in the beginning he did not know who the father was he said he would be the baby's dad no matter what.. is my son a stand up guy.. yes he is.. Thank God the baby was his..

I wanted to help my son from the get go.. and he told me NO. It was very hard on me to have to respect his wishes.. but I had to because he needs to be a man..
They let him see her once.. and after that started making excuses why he couldn't.. that they where not going to be home that day.. It continued like that.. My son has gone to family court and asked for help.. they kept leaving out paper work that he needed... so he had to turn around come all the way back home. Now that I am helping him I emailed the family law division and asked for all the paper work I needed for my son to request 50% custody. A mother has no right to hold the father away from the child. It took us a few years to find her and we have just now found her in Sacramento.
I know what BS stories are.. and if it came from anyone else you.. I would probably think the same..
If she did not want my son to be apart of that baby's life she should have never told him about the baby... But she was obviously money hungry.

Right now is just a bad time because I was just laid off from work.. and finding a new one in the field I work in.. is a little hard right at the moment.

[JudyKayTee]

Nothing has changed the advice I gave - "He needs legal representation. If he cannot afford legal counsel then he has to call your local Bar Association and ask for a referral to someone who offers services either at a reduced fee or no fee."

And I'm sorry but I find it impossible to believe he was passed out on the floor but the mother of the child overpowered him and forced him to have sex with her, the details of which act he clearly recalls.

But - that's a side issue. He needs legal representation.

[TerrieS]

JudyKayTee,

Thanks for advice.. I did call the local state bar in my county and the county the case is in. They can not help me find a pro-bono attorney.

I have been doing a lot of research. Men do get raped and the reason why they do not report it is because they feel no one will believe them.

If you tell anyone no once it is considered rape. He told that girl 3x's NO.

And you and Stevetcg are well aware of the fact that most women like myself do not report rape.

He is not the only guy in the world who woke up with someone on top of him..

My son was in a relationship at the time. Shortly after this happened his girlfriend who became his wife was pregnant.. My son is a stand up guy.. and obviously he worked and did not live off me all these years and paid his child support... he is not that far behind on the support.

That girl raped my son
raped him of his daughter
raped him my grandson of his sister
raped her daughter of a excellent caring father
raped my son's income all these years.

so no matter how hard it is to believe the word NO Means NO.. If it was your daughter what would you do... would you like to be told it is hard to believe.

[Synnen]

If he didn't report the rape, it has NO legal standing in his child support/child custody case.

Since it was not reported, as far as the OTHER issues go, it never happened, and is not a valid argument for anything.

He needs a good lawyer, and should call around to find out if any in your area will work on a sliding scale fee system.

If he does NOT get a good lawyer, well... then he's consenting to
Loss of his daughter
Losing your grandson of his sister
Losing the opportunity to be an excellent caring father to his daughter
Losing his income all these years for child support.

HE is responsible for getting visitation enforced.
HE is responsible for making sure to keep in contact with his daughter.
HE is responsible for STILL being an excellent, caring father, even if he does not live with the child
HE is responsible for paying child support, or for filing for an adjustment to it.

She's only gotten away with doing what she has because your son hasn't stood up and demanded differently in a court.

PS--it's going to be more expensive in the long run to NOT have a lawyer than it is to figure out how to get the money NOW to fix things.

[JudyKayTee]

JudyKayTee,

Thanks for advice.. I did call the local state bar in my county and the county the case is in. They can not help me find a pro-bono attorney.

I have been doing a lot of research. Men do get raped and the reason why they do not report it is because they feel no one will believe them.

If you tell anyone no once it is considered rape. He told that girl 3x's NO.

And you and Stevetcg are well aware of the fact that most women like myself do not report rape.

He is not the only guy in the world who woke up with someone on top of him..

My son was in a relationship at the time. Shortly after this happened his girlfriend who became his wife was pregnant.. My son is a stand up guy.. and obviously he worked and did not live off me all these years and paid his child support... he is not that far behind on the support.

That girl raped my son
raped him of his daughter
raped him my grandson of his sister
raped her daughter of a excellent caring father
raped my son's income all these years.

so no matter how hard it is to believe the word NO Means NO.. if it was your daughter what would you do... would you like to be told it is hard to believe.

You asked me a direct question or two so I'm going to answer a direct question or two -

I don't know what "most women like {yourself} do" when raped. I don't know that has to do with what your son did or didn't do (because it's water under the bridge) but for the record I WAS raped and I DID report it. I also wasn't intoxicated at the time which would have been your son's problem with the Police. I'm also a 5'4" woman and he was a 6'1" tall man.

I have no idea if he is or isn't the only man in the World who woke up with a woman on top of him and was forced to have intercourse. Either your son is a very small guy or this is a very big woman! Again, what does it matter?

The fact that "shortly thereafter" he got another woman pregnant but did marry her doesn't matter.

What I would or wouldn't like to be told doesn't matter, either - what does matter is what he does from now forward. When I ask for advice I take it and move in, whether I want to hear that specific advice or not.

What matters is why it's taken six years to get to this point and what he's going to do now.

And quite frankly with your attitude toward the mother I can see that there will be problems with visitation. That attitude will be apparent and I'm sure EVERYONE knows the story about the rape.

Not good for the child.

[TerrieS]

Synnen,

Thank you, I know the rape part does not stance anymore.. but it is how the little girl was conceived. We do not hold that against the child. My son just found her and he is doing every thing he can to enforce his 20% visitation until we are able to get him into court. We are awaiting the original court order for we can do that.
I also found a paralegal that would help us and get the fees waived from the courts.
I also, got a hold of her parents whom my son never talked to before nor have I. They had know idea what really happened, their daughter never told them anything.
They are LDS.. So are we... they do not even know they knew or family for years.. I still have not told her father that part.. but I will.. I know their son was at this party and I know he knows what happened and how he knew are family.. the girls mother was my nieces Sunday school teacher.
I know my son has been depressed for a very long time over this.. the only thing that kept him from killing himself was his son.. thank god..
I know my son is to blame for not pursuing as strong as I would and not letting me help him.. he is a rock head..
But again, I think you for the sound advice..

[TerrieS]

JudyKayTee,

I do not have that bad of an attitude.. my words did not come out well yesterday it was a long stressful few days for me. I do not know the mother. It is the child I care about. Yes, my son is part to blame for not pursuing as hard as he should have.. he only drove out to that county once a year.. If it was me I would be parked out side the girls house with a court order in hand from day one.

I am sorry you do know rape.. and yes you're a much braver women than I.. I could not report it when I was raped.. I was 13 and scared and before I knew it I was pregnant.. and all that I could muster out of my mouth is I do not know.. I regret that and yes I was lighter and shorter than you at the time.. and the man was a grown man.

I do have my son and I have done everything I could to be there for my son and show him a good example. When he got older I worked double shifts in restaurants and went to college at same time just for we can do a little better.

He is a good kid.. sure he did stupid things when he turned 18 but lots of kids do.

And know I would never tell that child what she is a product of.. I wouldn't even tell my son that..

I understand the rape is not the issue anymore thank you for pointing that out to me. What he does for now on is what matters you are correct there. I am sure that little girl has a open loving heart and will get to know her daddy.. I just pray it is in a nice way.. so far I have had no return calls. I am sorry if I got to emotional and I think you for your advice..

[Fr_Chuck]

I will be blunt, if he has not seen his daughter for six years then he has not done what he should, what the family wants or when they are busy means nothing, he gets a court ordered visit, and shows up, if he can not get the chid, he documents it, and takes the girl back to court for contempt.

After being fined or even locked up for contempt normaly they will allow the visits.

But again that is what he did wrong for the last six years, now his mistake is not working a extra job or saving some money over six years to pay for an attorney.

As for the rape, sorry if I don't believe it but it has no bearing on he visits at all anyway..
a. passed out drunk can't even perform
b. he made the choice to be at that party and get that drunk
c. most likely a good story to tell mom or family but hard to take serously

And I guess did he even get a DNA test to prove he is the father to start with?

[TerrieS]

I am posting again because I learned something very new... The mother of my grandchild who has done everything in her power to keep my granddaughter away from her father.. who denied every visit he ever requested when he has the 20% visitation rights. Her excuses where doctor appoints or they where not going to be home that day and it continued for the first couple of years.. then she just ignored all calls from my son. Then she just disappeared and he finally found her.. at least we think we have.
It is called Parental child Abduction. This is a crime. My son only wants to see his daughter and she is still is denying him the access..

She is refusing to pick up the phone. Her parents refuse to tell us where she is at or her address and we think we found her address, if it is her address. The address is in a different county. Sure, my son was complacent and did not know this was even called abduction. I mean who would think that a custodial parent can be considered to kidnap a child from a non- custodial parent when they only have 20% visitation rights with no set days.

Today or tomorrow we will have the visitation orders in our hands and we will be filing a report... I think that will solve things..

When I talked to the mothers father I warned him we might have to show up with the police if she keeps denying my son visits. He said he wanted to stay out of it was between the parents.. How do you stay out of something when it is involving a parent not seeing his child in 6 years.

[ScottGem]

First, you know only what your son told you. I'm not saying he isn't being truthful, but you do not know the facts, only what you have been told.

Second, you never said if a paternity test was ordered and whether he came back as the bio father.

But the bottom line here is that, he has a court order for visitation. If he hasn't been to court asking for a contempt citation against here, he's not doing what he should be doing. Family Courts are often more lax as to to formalities. So I find it hard to believe that he would keep being refused because he didn't fill in the paperwork properly.

Finally, yes, if a parent takes the child and does not notify the other parent where they are when there is a visitation order in place, that is parental kidnapping. It might even be enough to get him primary custody.

[TerrieS]

ScottGem,

My son did have a paternity test he is the father. He has paid 6 years of child support with only being less than 1 year behind. He has never been in jail for being behind. He has some proof that has tried contacting her through out the years. He emailed her on her myspace account requesting to see his child. He still has that email. Plus the next witness is his x-wife who knows numerous times on how many times my son tried to get a hold of her for visits.
Then the fact she just up and disappeared about 3 or 4 years ago..
My son had no idea this is abduction. Him and his x-wife have never had this problem of visitations with their son. My son has never denied the mother or the other grandparents visitation and his son lives with him.
The mother of his child in the beginning let him see her once. She was 1 years old. Then after that every time he called she made excuses and eventually started ignoring the calls.
Every time I asked him he would say, She won't let me see her because of this reason or that reason.. and just to stay out of it. He was deeply hurt and that is unfortunately how he acts when he is hurt.
When I talked to the mother's father the other day he told me to stay out of it.. I told him he did not want to have the police go to her door and force visitation in that manner. It would be easier for the little girl if the family was cooperative. He said it had to be handled threw lawyers and my son has no money for a lawyer. He has his son living with him and pays child child support for his daughter and after his pay check well welfare recipients get better pay than my son does.
I called the mothers father again left a message asking for her address and they have never returned my call.. should I keep trying until someone answers?
Should I start calling other peoples who numbers I found on the internet. I even found a family website should I post there too asking to confirm her whereabouts?
Or should I just wait until we are able to talk to the police when the visitation order arrives?

[TerrieS]

I forgot to ask how do I get emergency custody for my son once this does start moving. I am worried her family will jump in and try to take the child.

[Synnen]

Wow... what you are doing is borderline harrassment--and YOU might have the cops showing up if you don't back off.

Her father is right--it IS between the parents. YOU have no legal standing, unless you are suing for grandparents' rights.

YOU don't get emergency custody, your son does. HE needs to contact a lawyer. YOUR SON needs to contact the courts and let them know she's violated the visitation order.

While I realize you are trying to be helpful, HE needs to do all of this--NOT YOU. I doubt the courts would look that favorably on him getting custody of his child if your son's MOMMY had to do all the work for him. That just doesn't show ANY maturity!

I stand by my original answer: Your son NEEDS to afford a lawyer (perhaps THIS is where YOU can help?), because it will be a LOT more expensive in the long run if he doesn't get one.

[TerrieS]

I am helping my son because he did not know what to do... and just because I care enough to help him.. that does not make me bad. My son works full time and has his son full time he needs help. I am just seeking as much advice as I can for him.

He is not the only father in this situation... and he does have legal 20% visitation rights that have been denied. I am learning that my son is not the only one who had deal with the depression and frustrations of all this..

I have been reading websites saying contact neighbors, family friends of the parent who is with holding a child to try and locate the child. I did not know that was bad advice. That is why I am asking on here before I call any more people. And yes I called her parents.. and talked to them on the phone twice.

My son never called her parents only her with no avail and she disappeared. For 3 or 4 years. He has proof of trying to contact her in the pass and a witness.

I am trying to sale a motorcycle I for I can help him hire a attorney right now. I was laid off from work.. Thank god my husband still works.. but we lost more than 1/2 or income...

I am the grandmother of that child. My son does not deserve to have his little girl hidden away. I begged the other father to please help make this easy on the little girl. We do not want her traumatized by just showing up with the cops.

No parent should be denied the rights to have a child kept from him.. specially if they are good parents. I have seen my son be a really good dad to his son. He is even good to his son's mother side of the family. If she did not want my son to see the little girl then she should have never told him he had one..

The first visit with her and the last was "oh, here is what your paying for don't come back". That is not right.

This is for her own financial and gain. She is the only one who has hurt her daughter.

They are claiming my son never paid child support and has been incarcerated.

My son paid 6 years of child.. and has never been in jail. He is only under a year behind on paying her. She has been getting top dollar because California makes the paper work so frustrating and confusing I am now helping him with that paper work.

Now this is parental kidnapping the police department said it was. So if you can not let me know how to file a emergency custody order can someone else please help me.

Thank you