[tomder55]

The bill exploded to almost 2000 pages. I'm sure all the Reps. Will read it with a fine tooth comb before voting on it.

[ETWolverine]

For anyone who cares to read the Bill, it is HR 3962. Here's a link to the PDF. 1990 pages long. Have fun...

http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf

Elliot

[George_1950]

Hello again, George:

Then opting in or out ain't gonna matter too much if they're gonna knock you off anyway.

excon

As we are finding out, the IRS will be monitoring the usage of health care. It will be a simple interface for the IRS to perform a cursory cost/benefit analysis to see whether the patient/taxpayer is costing more than he is worth (anyone who thinks this is 'insurance' is on weed or just plain stupid). How efficient and fascistic things will be; and the multitudes will sing: Glory, glory to Obama; Glory, glory to Obama,. (to the tune of... oh, you know).

[excon]

As we are finding out, the IRS will be monitoring the usage of health care. It will be a simple interface for the IRS to perform a cursory cost/benefit analysis to see whether the patient/taxpayer is costing more than he is worth (anyone who thinks this is 'insurance' is on weed or just plain stupid).

Hello again, George:

Here's the good news. I'M certainly NOT going to be one of those who are worthy, so they'll knock me, and the other stupid ones off straight away. When the government has taken care of that, you can change it back, cause there won't be anyone left to oppose it.

excon

[George_1950]

No, man. The 'good news' will be the American folks aren't going to stand for it. Hopefully, these bridges will never be crossed. I'm betting on the pursuit of happiness rather than the prospect of security.

[tomder55]

Meanwhile there is good news for Canadians .They average waiting list has dropped to only 4 months(six months in Newfoundland)!!

Waiting Your Turn: Hospital Waiting Lists in Canada, 19th Edition

That's a drop of a critical 1 week!!

[inthebox]

For anyone who cares to read the Bill, it is HR 3962. Here's a link to the PDF. 1990 pages long. Have fun...

http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf

Elliot

Big Government Blog Archive Pelosi Health Care Bill Blows a Kiss to Trial Lawyers

Section 2531, entitled “Medical Liability Alternatives,” establishes an incentive program for states to adopt and implement alternatives to medical liability litigation. [But]…… a state is not eligible for the incentive payments if that state puts a law on the books that limits attorneys’ fees or imposes caps on damages.

American Thinker Blog: Health care reform targets...vending machines?



BREAKING: Comprehensive List of Taxes<br> In House Democrat Health Bill

This gargantuan beast contains thirteen new tax hikes.

I'm sure there are plenty of more gems like these. :rolleyes:


G&P

[tomder55]

To answer the question ;yes the death panels remain in HR3962
Pelosi Bill Keeps End-of-Life Planning - CBS News

[NeedKarma]

To answer the question ;yes the death panels remain in HR3962
Pelosi Bill Keeps End-of-Life Planning - CBS News

FTA:

The provision allows Medicare to pay for voluntary counseling to help beneficiaries deal with the complex and painful decisions families face when a loved one is approaching death.

Yea, that's death panel. :rolleyes:
Please spread more FUD tom.

[tomder55]

OK

Here are some hidden tax increases in the bill compiled by Americans for Tax Reform :
Employer Mandate Excise Tax (Page 275): If an employer does not pay 72.5 percent of a single employee's health premium (65 percent of a family employee), the employer must pay an excise tax equal to 8 percent of average wages. Small employers (measured by payroll size) have smaller payroll tax rates of 0 percent (<$500,000), 2 percent ($500,000-$585,000), 4 percent ($585,000-$670,000), and 6 percent ($670,000-$750,000).

Individual Mandate Surtax (Page 296): If an individual fails to obtain qualifying coverage, he must pay an income surtax equal to the lesser of 2.5 percent of modified adjusted gross income (MAGI) or the average premium. MAGI adds back in the foreign earned income exclusion and municipal bond interest.

Medicine Cabinet Tax (Page 324): Non-prescription medications would no longer be able to be purchased from health savings accounts (HSAs), flexible spending accounts (FSAs), or health reimbursement arrangements (HRAs). Insulin excepted.

Cap on FSAs (Page 325): FSAs would face an annual cap of $2500 (currently uncapped).

Increased Additional Tax on Non-Qualified HSA Distributions (Page 326): Non-qualified distributions from HSAs would face an additional tax of 20 percent (current law is 10 percent). This disadvantages HSAs relative to other tax-free accounts (e.g. IRAs, 401(k)s, 529 plans, etc.)

Denial of Tax Deduction for Employer Health Plans Coordinating with Medicare Part D (Page 327): This would further erode private sector participation in delivery of Medicare services.

Surtax on Individuals and Small Businesses (Page 336): Imposes an income surtax of 5.4 percent on MAGI over $500,000 ($1 million married filing jointly). MAGI adds back in the itemized deduction for margin loan interest. This would raise the top marginal tax rate in 2011 from 39.6 percent under current law to 45 percent—a new effective top rate.

Excise Tax on Medical Devices (Page 339): Imposes a new excise tax on medical device manufacturers equal to 2.5 percent of the wholesale price. It excludes retail sales and unspecified medical devices sold to the general public.

Corporate 1099-MISC Information Reporting (Page 344): Requires that 1099-MISC forms be issued to corporations as well as persons for trade or business payments. Current law limits to just persons for small business compliance complexity reasons. Also expands reporting to exchanges of property.

Delay in Worldwide Allocation of Interest (Page 345): Delays for nine years the worldwide allocation of interest, a corporate tax relief provision from the American Jobs Creation Act

Limitation on Tax Treaty Benefits for Certain Payments (Page 346): Increases taxes on U.S. employers with overseas operations looking to avoid double taxation of earnings.

Codification of the “Economic Substance Doctrine” (Page 349): Empowers the IRS to disallow a perfectly legal tax deduction or other tax relief merely because the IRS deems that the motive of the taxpayer was not primarily business-related.

Application of “More Likely Than Not” Rule (Page 357): Publicly-traded partnerships and corporations with annual gross receipts in excess of $100 million have raised standards on penalties. If there is a tax underpayment by these taxpayers, they must be able to prove that the estimated tax paid would have more likely than not been sufficient to cover final tax liability.
BREAKING: Comprehensive List of Taxes<br> In House Democrat Health Bill#

[tomder55]

One other thing... Pelosi et al claim this is defecit neutral . The only way that is true is if you take into account the hundreds of billions of dollars in Medicare cuts. Yup ,Pelosi and the Democrats will be able to campaign next year as the party that cut Medicare benefits!

[NeedKarma]

One other thing ..... Pelosi et al claim this is defecit neutral . The only way that is true is if you take into account the hundreds of billions of dollars in Medicare cuts. Yup ,Pelosi and the Democrats will be able to campaign next year as the party that cut Medicare benefits !!

No it's about cutting Medicare fraud and waste. That was widely reported but you chose to post more misinformation.

[George_1950]

On today's headline: "Flex spending accounts face hit in health overhaul"
Further: "Those tax-free spending accounts that you and your co-workers use to help pay for dental work, insurance copayments or over-the-counter drugs face a hit under the health overhaul bills in Congress — unless a coalition that includes a powerful union, insurers and others can stop it."
Flex spending accounts face hit in health overhaul - Yahoo! News
Why destroy a program that is working?

[ETWolverine]

No it's about cutting Medicare fraud and waste. That was widely reported but you chose to post more misinformation.

NK, here's a clue:

When you cut Medicare fraud, it results in lower spending.

However, when you cut the Medicare BUDGET, it does not result in lower spending, just less money available, and more cost overruns.

Pelosi isn't doing anything to cut Medicare fraud. She's just cutting their budget and telling us that they will therefore have to cut fraud themselves.

She's cutting Medicare. Deal with it.

[George_1950]

What government agency, anywhere, has ever accurately forcast its revenues? Or, its expenses?

[excon]

Hello:

My understanding is that there will be cuts in the subsidies the insurance companies got to write Medicare Supplemental insurance... The only way the dufus could get them to write these policies in the first place, was if he gave 'em the ranch - and he did.

This is just taking some of YOUR money back from them. These subsidies are going to be cut. I suppose that means the insurance companies will cut services and raise premiums. But, that's on them.

Now, it's hard for me to say that the cuts in subsidies is a cut in service. It isn't. It's exactly what it portends to be - saving more of YOUR money.

Now, if the insurance companies want to cut services as a result, then they will. But, let's not suggest that the BILL is doing that. It's clearly the insurance companies who are going to do it as a RESULT of the bill.

excon

[George_1950]

Hello:

My understanding is that there will be cuts in the subsidies the insurance companies got to write Medicare Supplemental insurance...

excon

Your understanding is way off base, according to my understanding.

There are no subsidies flowing to insurance companies with repect to medicare supplemental policies; those policies are purchased by the insured and they cost real money.

What you may understand correctly is that Medicare Advantage plans will be cut. Progressive/liberals hate this program because they (P/L's) are "out" of the loop and not able to dictate results.

excon, you are living in a very sick world if this is what you believe. You are way too smart to buy-in to that crap.

[speechlesstx]

No it's about cutting Medicare fraud and waste. That was widely reported but you chose to post more misinformation.

The Wall Street Journal (rightfully) calls Pelosicare The Worst Bill Ever. If it's about cutting waste and fraud they can begin by starting from scratch and using a little common and fiscal sense. And by the way, Pelosicare only made Americans like it less.

[tomder55]

Steve ;not sure you are citing an NK approved source.

[excon]

Hello George:

You're right. I misspoke. The supplemental plans I spoke of ARE correctly called Medicare Advantage. They cost real money, too. I own one.

I don't know what plans you might be talking about. There ARE no other plans that a senior would buy. These are the ones, whose subsidy's will be cut... Subsidy's that the dufus gave them.

excon