[holyangel17]

Definitley "newday"! I do...

[newday]

This thread has turned absurd, Newday, sorry you are the focus of this unfortunate debacle of a thread. Usually it is not like this.

It is very evident by your post that the Ex-wife had been undermining your parental efforts early on, and that is sad. Your 20yo Daughter never learned to respect you from the early stages in life.

Yes, you are doing a very good thing by demanding that the Daughter respect you and the life you are building post BPD/NPD.

This is one lesson that many many parents neglect to give their children.....they seem to think that the child will just fly out of the nest on their own when many times if the nest is warm and well stocked with food and an Xbox or Wii, the child will just stay put. In Nature, the mother bird "pushes" the baby birds out of the nest.

Some Aging human females need to be needed and therefore are reluctant to push the last child to leave the home....and empty nest is a scary thing for a ~45 year old woman with a 33 year old mindset....

Yes, the daughter needs this very powerful lesson in life......Just because you are her father does not mean anything at this point in both your lives. (Sorry AcidAngel) If the Adult Child cannot learn to behave respectfully, you can no longer spank her, you can no longer send her to her room, you can no longer put her in time out.......These repercussions are what we place on "children" when they act out. An Adult of any Gender needs to learn real quickly that if they are disrespectful in society, they will be shunned....and who better to teach that lesson than a father??

Very interesting you seem to have a lot of insight into what I have delt with. One point is for those that like examples. My daughter comes into my home for a 1 week visit that turns into three, I sit down with her and discuss what her plan is for employement and normal living things and her response is I just need this next few months to spend time with you dad. Keep in mind I have a family as well and a full time job and I work from home most of the time when I'm not traveling. So I tell her this is not acceptable. She needs to have a age appropriate routine and job. The whole conversation flips to I'm counting the days she has been here and it is my wife that wants to get between the relationship of me and my daughter. So as you can see where normal rational thinking works with most people these types of personalities are able to triangulate their way into getting their own way because most people have too many other things to deal with and just do not want to put their foot down with these people. Now after the blow out I'm still typing on this site and stressed and I can assure you she is fine and will act like nothing ever happened. If anyone saw the movie Obsessed recently they will know how the woman that was stalking the man in the movie would do something the man would clearly correct and try to deal with. The woman would come right back the next day and act like nothing happened and think he loves her. How does this relate ? Most normal people think like I did for years to deal with the people with love and talk it out. Well I went to over two years of marriage counseling only to finally get divorced. Why ? My ex who by the way has a huge influence over my daughter literally convinced the couselor that I was crazy. I came to every session and participated and listened. The Borderline personality (in my opinion) is highly adapted to change their personality as they see fit to work in a current setting to get what they want. Some might say this is a split personality. I tend to think this not correct. Borderlines may have mood swings but their personality is fairly constant. They are constantly working those around them covertly to make sure they have control. Plus they project whatever their warped thinking dreams up to the people around them. That is why some people call these types of people crazy makers.

[JudyKayTee]

Have you answered what part your second wife played in your divorce from your first wife - if any? I see that as important.

[newday]

My second wife play no role in the divorce of my wife. My marriage was over for 5 years prior to separation due to financial problems and then I still in the last two years went through marriage counseling and decided to get divorced. I met my wife after all of this occurred. Because my wife was waging a legal battle against me she refused to sign any papers until she ran out of money. Money that she could have used for our children's college. My divorce dragged on and I was legally divorced after. My ex tried to accuse me of meeting multiple women during the marriage and was always acusing me. I was never unfaithful to my wife while we were together. She told both of my children that I new my new wife prior to leaving her and this was all lies.

[newday]

Sorry I'm sorry the marriage was over 5 years prior and I could not afford to get divorced for financial reasons. Plus I decided to stay there for my children which I'm not sure if this was the best choice. I waited until they were over 18.

[Gemini54]

My second wife play no role in the divorce of my wife. My marriage was over for 5 years prior to seperation due to financial problems and then I still in the last two years went through marriage counseling and decided to get divorced. I met my wife after all of this occured. Due to the fact that my wife was waging a legal battle against me she refused to sign any papers until she ran out of money. Money that she could have used for our childrens college. My divorce dragged on and I was legally divorced after. My ex tried to accuse me of meeting multiple women during the course of the marriage and was always acusing me. I was never unfaithful to my wife while we were together. She told both of my children that I new my new wife prior to leaving her and this was all lies.

Please don't feel that you need to justify yourself. You're the one that lived with your Ex and now have to deal with your daughter. You're the one that had to put up with the lies, drama and manipualtion on a daily basis. I repeat what I said previously, that it's actually very difficult to understand the extent to which these disorders affect you, unless you live with them. And, in the end there is no living with them because it's crazy town on a daily basis.

The question you are asking is how to deal with an insecure, manipulative and demanding daughter who is creating havoc in your new marriage. Whether she has BPD/NPD is somewhat irrrelevant as she seems to have modelled her behavior on her mother's.

I'd like to share some of my experience...

My husband has daughters who are younger than yours (15 & 17), but similar. His ex wife has NPD and can be trusted with nothing. The daughters behave like their mother. We have dealt with my husband's daughters by being extremely firm, very clear about the rules in our household and by not putting up with any $hit whatsoever. After many years we have achieved a tenuous level of stability. My husband adores his daughters but is adhamant that it is their responsibility to manage their behavior and to be reasonable and respectful in our household. Firm persistence in our actions and responses seems to be the key rather than a lot of talking, as they only hear what they want to hear anyway.

We have noticed that any change tends to set off the manipulative, dramatic and controlling behavior, so I imagine that the change of you remarrying has destabilised your daughter and introduced another element into the equation - your new wife and her family. It's really important that she supports you to manage your daughter and for her not to take anything that she does (or says) personally. In my case, I had to work SO hard at curbing my tongue - it was a massive challenge at which I failed many times.

My husband and I have succeeded (somewhat) by being really united in our approach. His girls know that he loves them (despite what their mother tells them!) and they also know that he loves me and that our relationship is of paramount importance. They no longer try to sabotage it and we hope in the end that we will be a good example to them for their own relationships.

I don't know whether my husband's girls will grow out of their behavior, or whether you daughter will. Who can tell? What I do know is that we are not doing them any favours by tolerating bad behavior.

You now have the opportunity to do the things that you were unable to do when you were with your ex-wife. Tell you daughter you love her. Set limits. Be clear about what your boundaries are. Work with your new wife to manage your daughter. Don't be afraid to be tough. There will be resistance and recriminations but persistence is the key.

[jham123]

My husband has.......

Wait! @!
You are a woman??

I new there was a reason... ;)

[Gemini54]

Wait!!@!!
You are a woman??!?!?!?!

I new there was a reason.......;)

A reason for what Mr Ham? The 'great' advice I give - heh heh.

Woman's intuition don't you think?:p

[newday]

My daughter joined the military. She is supposed to go to bootcamp in Jan 2010 (Coast Guard) I've been told that the military can help her learn respect and discipline. I hope they are correct.

[Gemini54]

My daughter joined the military. She is supposed to go to bootcamp in Jan 2010 (Coast Guard) I've been told that the military can help her learn respect and discipline. I hope they are correct.

Well that's going to be a challenge - for them and for her!

[newday]

I think it is kind of comical. To think of how she will try to manipulate a drill sergeant. I personally feel she will or at least try.

[newday]

This hot off the press from the ex. This is in response in me not giving in to my daughters latest outburst in which she told me that she wants nothing to do with me and my family because she was put in her place for not wanted to work at age 20 for 3 months before she goes to bootcamp. She wants to sit in her Pj's on the internet all day on Facebook.

This is from my ex
K... Our son was a love child. Our daughter thought out/planned. Yeh, as achristian,committed husband you f,d up,bur as YOU SAID,YOU WEREDIVORCING ME NOT YOUR KIDS... One of the reasons I fell in love w. u.is because I thought you had a big heart and would be a good dad... U wereclosest to?Your daughter. How can you b so cruel and write your own flesh and bloodoff when she needs you the most? How can you stand be for a holy God and bhave this way? Shame on u, racca!

[newday]

WOW I think I need to sign off

[jham123]

My daughter joined the military. She is supposed to go to bootcamp in Jan 2010 (Coast Guard) I've been told that the military can help her learn respect and discipline. I hope they are correct.

My be the best thing.

This will be one of those times in life...

... "When I was 17 my Dad was the dumbest person on the face of the planet, When I was 23 I was amazed to find out how much he had learned in 5 short years........"

Badumpump

[Gemini54]

This hot off the press from the ex. This is in response in me not giving in to my daughters latest outburst in which she told me that she wants nothing to do with me and my family because she was put in her place for not wanted to work at age 20 for 3 months before she goes to bootcamp. She wants to sit in her Pj's on the internet all day on facebook.

This is from my ex
K...Our son was a love child. Our daughter thought out/planned. Yeh, as achristian,committed husband u f,d up,bur as YOU SAID,YOU WEREDIVORCING ME NOT YOUR KIDS...One of the reasons I fell in luv w. u.is because I thought u had a big heart n would b a good dad....U wereclosest to?Your daughter. How can u b so cruel n write ur own flesh n bloodoff when she needs u the most? How can u stand b 4 a holy God n bhave this way? Shame on u, racca!

Well, you should be used to the outbusts by now! Just ignore it. They always bring God into it. It's just the old aren't you an awful father, 'making you feel guilty' trick.

[Gemini54]

My be the best thing.

this will be one of those times in life......

....."When I was 17 my Dad was the dumbest person on the face of the planet, When I was 23 I was amazed to find out how much he had learned in 5 short years........"

Badumpump

Badabump indeed.

[talaniman]

Thread cleaned up and re-opened.

We all have opinions, and there is no reason to knock those of others.

I will be brief, as a parent, your children follow your rules in your house, and if they cannot they can leave. 20 is to old to coddle for any reason, and if she cannot act in a respectful manner, she has to leave. I really don't care what problems she has as there is consequences to pay for bad behavior. To keep your home in order, sorry but the ladies (new wife, and daughter) should be kept apart, but doesn't mean you and her cannot have quality time together as she tries to grow up and find her way, but never at your home if she cannot behave, so that means you Dad, must lay the rules down, and enforce them. Its really that simple, but means, knowing how she is, nip the bad stuff in the bud before it even gets started. If she gets pizzed, thats just to bad as she is an adult, and should have her own thing going, anyway. Tough love its called.

Ignore the ex, thats the past, and is over.

Glad she is going to the army, but believe nothing until you see it, as honestly, it smells of another way to get you to back off, and I suspect you feel that way to.

Eventually I hope she does grow up, and see that its better to get along with her dad, and be in his life and just enjoy the time you have together.

Stay on her, you are her dad, even when your TEACHING her. Its a lifetime job with no short cuts.

[newday]

Someone was asking for examples of the manipulation and dynamics between my daughter and I. Rather than my daughter pick up the phone and call to discuss she has had various people try to contact me. If I have given anyone the feeling that I enjoy or see this as a game I appologize. I do not mind if this closed as well since many have given me good advice. I really appreciate the help. I felt very alone and this has really helped me look within myself to see where I need to change to help my daughter. Also to be a good man and father and husband.

[talaniman]

I will close this thread by your own request, but hope we helped somewhat in giving you some suggestions and support. Hope it works out, and you update us as to what's going on in your life.

Thanks for sharing.