[this8384]

I had read online that gematria originated during the Tannaic period, but I can't find even an approximate timeline of when that took place. Can anyone help?

[ETWolverine]

The earliest mention of Gematria that I have seen is from Mishna of Pirkei Avot. This is indeed during the Tannaic period, since the redactors of the Mishna were the Tanaim.

The citation that I have seen is one from Rabbi Eliezer Chisma, who lived in the 2nd Century CE. So that gives you a starting point to work with.

However, the WORD "Gematria" is derived from the GREEK term "gamma-trea" or "Gamma is Three". (It could also be an early form of the word "geometry" which is also a Greek word.) This would indicate that the system actually dates from some time during the Greek Empire period. This could mean any time between roughly 475 BC and 30 BC.

So I'm not really sure how this should be answered. The origins of Gematria could be anywhere from 475 BC to roughly 300 CE. That a 775-year period to choose from.

But there's more... it COULD be that the Gematria system was in existence BEFORE the Greeks came to power, but it may not have been called that. Another term used in the Talmud (specifically the Mishna) for Gematria is "Parpurot" or "side dishes" meaning that they were side-notes of Torah study, not main parts of Torah study. The candy, not the main course, as it were. The point is that there is a HEBREW name for Gematria that may predate the Greek name for it. Which means that there's really no way to pin it down based on the name.

I think that the origin of this study has been lost in time, and though it is a fairly common study today within Judaism, it's SOURCE seems to be lost to the generations.

There's an old story about a Rabbi who told his students that the word "Gematria" had the same numerical value as the words for "wasting the time of torah study" (Bitul Torah), and that this was a proof that his students shouldn't waste their precious study time with the pursuit of Gematria study.

One of the students decided to see if his Rabbi was correct. That night he went home and did the math... and lo and behold, the Rabbi was off. WAAAYYY off. The numerical values DIDN'T match.

The excited student returned to his teacher the next day and told him that there was a mistake in his calculation. "Rabbi," he said, "I spent hours and hours doing the math over and over again and your calculation was just wrong."

The teacher said, "I told you you would be wasting your time if you followed the pursuit of Gematria... look how many hours you wasted with this one example of it."

Yeah... my Rabbi was ticked at me that day...

And yes, it's a true story.

Elliot

[this8384]

The earliest mention of Gematria that I have seen is from Mishna of Pirkei Avot. This is indeed during the Tannaic period, since the redactors of the Mishna were the Tanaim.

The citation that I have seen is one from Rabbi Eliezer Chisma, who lived in the 2nd Century CE. So that gives you a starting point to work with.

However, the WORD "Gematria" is derived from the GREEK term "gamma-trea" or "Gamma is Three". (It could also be an early form of the word "geometry" which is also a Greek word.) This would indicate that the system actually dates from some time during the Greek Empire period. This could mean any time between roughly 475 BC and 30 BC.

So I'm not really sure how this should be answered. The origins of Gematria could be anywhere from 475 BC to roughly 300 CE. That a 775-year period to choose from.

But there's more... it COULD be that the Gematria system was in existence BEFORE the Greeks came to power, but it may not have been called that. Another term used in the Talmud (specifically the Mishna) for Gematria is "Parpurot" or "side dishes" meaning that they were side-notes of Torah study, not main parts of Torah study. The candy, not the main course, as it were. The point is that there is a HEBREW name for Gematria that may predate the Greek name for it. Which means that there's really no way to pin it down based on the name.

I think that the origin of this study has been lost in time, and though it is a fairly common study today within Judaism, it's SOURCE seems to be lost to the generations.

There's an old story about a Rabbi who told his students that the word "Gematria" had the same numerical value as the words for "wasting the time of torah study" (Bitul Torah), and that this was a proof that his students shouldn't waste their precious study time with the pursuit of Gematria study.

One of the students decided to see if his Rabbi was correct. That night he went home and did the math... and lo and behold, the Rabbi was off. WAAAYYY off. The numerical values DIDN'T match.

The excited student returned to his teacher the next day and told him that there was a mistake in his calculation. "Rabbi," he said, "I spent hours and hours doing the math over and over again and your calculation was just wrong."

The teacher said, "I told you you would be wasting your time if you followed the pursuit of Gematria... look how many hours you wasted with this one example of it."

Yeah... my Rabbi was ticked at me that day...

And yes, it's a true story.

Elliot

Thanks for all your help... loved the true story :)

I had watched a video the other day regarding the end times and it included some references to Gematria. Someone I know dismissed it as inaccurate or not real because they said that the Bible had no reference to Gematria. I said, "Well, the Bible also doesn't say anything about electricity, now does it?" My dad and I were just curious as to the origin, how long it's been around/been used, etc.