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Jake2008 · Sep 20, 2009, 10:08 AM

Recently, a person I know picketed the workplace of her ex husband, with a placard, for aobut 45 minutes. She was on the sidewalk, and walked up and down the sidewalk in front of his business, then left.

On her sign were facts, nothing was made up. He is in arrears, he owes her the money, and he will not pay.

He called the police, who in turn phoned her, and said if she did it again, they would charge her with 'criminal harrassment'.

What is criminal about picketing in Canada, the work place of a deadbeat dad?

stevetcg · Sep 21, 2009, 08:40 AM

Its harassment... that's what is illegal about it. It would be the same if she took out a half page ad in the paper listing what a deadbeat he is.

Incidentally it's the same thing that prevents HIM from taking out an ad calling his ex a dirty tramp or whatever his opinion is.

It is not her place to violate someone's rights to get what she wants. The court and the legal system are in place to handle just that. Vigilantism is a pinnacle of the downfall of society.

Jake2008 · Sep 21, 2009, 08:48 AM

Thanks Steve. I had hoped that because she had proof of what she said, that it might not be considered criminal harassment, but she got a warning that said, the next time, she will be charged with harassment.

It's a very frustrating situation as you can imagine, to think you have to go that far to get what is entitled to you by law, to feed your kids and keep a roof over their head.

Not sure what's next on the agenda, but there won't be any further picketing. She can't afford the time off work to defend herself anyway.

stevetcg · Sep 21, 2009, 08:56 AM

Now if she wanted to picket the Child Enforcement Agency office because they weren't doing enough, THAT would not be harassment.

NeedKarma · Sep 21, 2009, 09:05 AM

It's called soemthing different here in Canada Steve.

Jake you can forward tbis to her: Canadian Child Support - Canadian Child Support Enforcement

If she afford a family lawyer they can dig up hidden assets or revenue, my wife has been successful in this in the past.

JudyKayTee · Sep 21, 2009, 10:12 AM

The wife could be charged with harassment but also could be sued if her actions cost him any business/income now or in the future, whether it's his business or workplace. I understand her upset but it was a foolish thing to do.

I'm sure she's also up to her eyes with the Court system.

No easy answer here - I thought the US held the record for deadbeats but it appears they also exist in Canada.

Is the system no help to her?

NeedKarma · Sep 21, 2009, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Is the system no help to her?

Feel free to gloss over my post.

JudyKayTee · Sep 21, 2009, 10:36 AM

What exactly did I do to step on your toes and cause this type of sarcastic response?

I asked if the system has been any help to her.

I don't see that your post asked that.

NeedKarma · Sep 21, 2009, 10:40 AM

Thanks for the reddie.

My link shows garnishment and enforcement options. I also recommended a family lawyer as they can get enforceable orders.

JudyKayTee · Sep 21, 2009, 10:41 AM

My question was - and is - what has the system done for her until now. I know all about garnishment and enforcement options. I just want to know what has happened up until now, how/why he has avoided paying.

And you are welcome.

NeedKarma · Sep 21, 2009, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

And you are welcome.

It's sad that that your first response is to drop a reddie.

JudyKayTee · Sep 21, 2009, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

It's sad that that your first response is to drop a reddie.

This is going to get pulled because this is not a chat board but actually that was my second response. My first response was to answer you. Then I checked some of your other posts.

Then I gave you the reddie in light of your pattern of what I see as harassment, particularly on sites where your rudeness cannot be addressed in this manner.

I have no desire to carry on this conversation so now you're on your own here.

NeedKarma · Sep 21, 2009, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Then I checked some of your other posts.

Then I gave you the reddie in light of your pattern of what I see as harassment, particularly on sites where your rudeness cannot be addressed in this manner.

I have no idea of what you are talking about? :confused:

Jake2008 · Sep 21, 2009, 11:30 AM

The 'protest' was a result of absolutely everything failing here that should have been there to make him pay.

There is an office called FRO (Family Responsibility Office) that has messed up so badly, at times they couldn't even find her file. He is supposed to pay them. He is technically not in arrears because he pays a pittance of what he is supposed to, plus he has more than once called in and asked for extensions. All of it has left him behind, and her without her support.

He is also self employed, with a large inventory that at one time there was an order to execute a seizure to satisfy the debt, but again, he came up with a little bit of money to stave them off. Of course, he states his income below 20,000 a year which is a joke.

The hidden assets, he bought a house and a new suv with his live-in, can't be found, we've checked records as best we can, but I'll pass on the links you posted.

She is just slightly above the limit to qualify for legal aid, and in anything else she's looked into, they consider the child support as part of the income, although she doesn't receive it.

There has to be a way. I've never seen such a fiasco as this.

JudyKayTee · Sep 21, 2009, 01:47 PM

Unfortunately I've seen just about as bad but in NY. When assets are well hidden it becomes an impossible task to find them, even if a private investigator is used.

As long as he is technically not in arrears I have concerns that the Court will even look into this.

Has she tried a private Attorney to see if he/she has any suggestions? Of course, the cost of an Attorney often offsets any money she collects.

I don't see that site being helpful if he is (again, techically) NOT in arrears. Please keep us informed - I'm curious to see if she can go to another agency for help.

Jake2008 · Sep 21, 2009, 01:53 PM

Thanks Judy. I wondered about a PI, but he was well prepared before they even separated. He also has a child from a previous relationship that he has refused to pay support for too.

We keep looking for new avenues and it usually boils down to going to court again, and as you said, the expense is not something she can afford to do.

I will post again with any progress. Have to stay positive.

excon · Sep 22, 2009, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by Jake2008

He called the police, who in turn phoned her, and said if she did it again, they would charge her with 'criminal harrassment

Hello Jake:

Did they tell her this when their mouths were full of DOUGHNUT?? Probably, because cops DON'T know the law.. They just know the easiest and most quick way to get rid of a victim, so they can get back to eating their DOUGHNUTS.

Now, I don't know about the Canadian Constitution, but in the US, a citizen DOES have a right to SPEAK freely in public WITHOUT being charged with a crime...

We do it here ALL the time... Have you ever read about some disgruntled customer standing in front of a store or a car dealers lot with a SIGN?? I sure have... I've BEEN one of those people. I got ripped off by an ATTORNEY, so I got a HUGE sign saying so, and stood right smack in front of his building with it. There is NOTHING illegal about doing that here in the US. I can't imagine it being illegal in Canada.

excon

NeedKarma · Sep 22, 2009, 06:31 AM

We don't have a Constitution similar to yours but we do have the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I'm uncertain as to the officer's truthiness in saying they can immediately arrest the person for picketing, it all depends on the situation whether harassment is involved or whether the person is on private property.

Jake2008 · Sep 22, 2009, 08:58 AM

Well, apparently you can picket once, but twice is considered harassment, and you can be charged if it makes the person you are picketing uneasy, afraid, or uncomfortable.

It's ironic that it actually was in front of his business, not his home, but it wasn't about anything to do with the business. Except, as had been noted before, more than once, and he can claim a loss of business, and she has to pay him, instead of him paying her what he owes. He wins again.

From what we've been able to find out, the cop was correct, in that she could be charged with harassment, but of course he leaves out a lot of information, and comes across only so much as to scare her.

As far as I know our Charter allows you the freedom of assembly to picket and protest whatever you like. But, obviously when it gets to the nitty gritty, you can't insult one single individual... without getting arrested and charged yourself.

I worry that the whole thing is escalating, and I agree with Judy, overall it accomplished nothing.

excon · Sep 22, 2009, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Jake2008

But, obviously when it gets to the nitty gritty, you can't insult one single individual...........without getting arrested and charged yourself.

I worry that the whole thing is escalating, and I agree with Judy, overall it accomplished nothing.

Hello again, Jake:

Couple things... Of course, I STILL think the cops are speaking with their mouths full of chocolate cream... I don't believe you have a right to do something ONE time, but if you do it a SECOND, it's a crime...

I DO agree that the sign has to be worded carefully so that it DOESN'T insult, and that it only addresses verifiable FACTS. I don't believe the cops could say, without glazed sugar all over their faces, that one could be harassed by the TRUTH.

Secondly, I think it could accomplish a LOT, whereas following their bureaucratic procedures does NOTHING.. I think embarrassing him in front of his clients and co-workers COULD have a positive effect.. Especially if you did it EVERY day... I'll bet the TV news people might be interested in THIS form of protest, and might put it on TV. That too, might have the impetus to make this deadbeat PAY...

I LOVE guerilla law.

excon