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When people here post about death panels, refer them here
Here's John Steward who takes on Betsy McCaughey, the first who equated end-of-life planning with government-ordered euthanasia, goes on the Daily Show to make her case.
US link: Part 1- http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-20-20 ... Part 2- http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-17-20 ... Part 3- http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-17-20 ... Canadian link: The Daily Show with Jon Stewart : August 20, 2009 |
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/19/ma...re-t.html?_r=1 Health care is a scarce resource, and all scarce resources are rationed in one way or another. In the United States, most health care is privately financed, and so most rationing is by price: you get what you, or your employer, can afford to insure you for. But our current system of employer-financed health insurance exists only because the federal government encouraged it by making the premiums tax deductible. That is, in effect, a more than $200 billion government subsidy for health care. In the public sector, primarily Medicare, Medicaid and hospital emergency rooms, health care is rationed by long waits, high patient copayment requirements, low payments to doctors that discourage some from serving public patients and limits on payments to hospitals. I wish all people [ those who defend government intervention, and those defending the private sector ] would be "transparent" and acknowledge this. Why can't Obama be honest with us about this? --------------------------------------------------- NK I'll have to watch the videos first, thanks for the link G&P |
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 Originally Posted by inthebox
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/curren...387127-11.html Post number 109. excon |
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HR 3200, specifically 425 deals with advanced directives. Why does this even have to be put in this bill, when discussions about end of life decisions ARE ALREADY BEING MADE ? Why on page 432 STEWART: And so let me just read it very quickly. "In general, for purposes of reporting data on quality measures for covered professional services, the secretary shall include quality measures on end-of-life care and advanced care planning that have been adopted or endorsed by a consensus-based organization, if appropriate. Such measures shall measure both the creation of and adherence to orders for life-sustaining treatment." Stewart goes on and on about "life sustaining treatment," but what he does not understand is that if a person chooses to be DNR that means "life sustaining" treatment, mechanical ventilation, ACLS resuscitation, will be withheld. Why does the government need to oversee that someone is or is not truly DNR? Why is this even in this bill? Does the government not trust doctors and nurses to respect the wishes of the patient in regard to their "code status?" Stewart goes on and on about "life sustaining" is childish. That is like me proclaiming " I have a vette" over and over while neglecting to say the "che" in front of the vette. G&P |
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"Your Life, Your Choices" is a guide document for Veterans that was suspended under the Bush administration, but has been revived under the current Department of Veterans Affairs. This 52 page guide document essentially tells Vets to "hurry up and die".
"Your Life, Your Choices" Dr. Robert Pearlman ,who in 1996 advocated for physician-assisted suicide in Vacco v. Quill before SCOTUS and supports health-care rationing is the author of this guide . He is currently chief of ethics evaluation for the VA's National Center for Ethics in Health Care . So not only are their death panels... oops I mean commissions ;but there are also death books for Vets. On page 21 there is a questionnaire with loaded questions the Vets who are making end of life decisions ;they should consider the following : “I can no longer contribute to my family's well being,” “I am a severe financial burden on my family” and “my situation causes severe emotional burden for my family.” On page 24 it mentions things like you "cant shake the blues" as a possible reason to not continue your life. So do I believe that the Dems would add something like that to their bill ? Yes ;they've done it before. |
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Betsy McCaughey, the healthcare reform opponent who helped tank the Clinton administration's plans and has been spreading misinformation about the current proposals, has resigned from the board of directors of a medical equipment company.
That's what happens when you get caught. |
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McCaughey is a long time patient advocate . I'll take her word above that of David Axelrod's Obama Campaign Ad Firms Signed On to Push Health-Care Overhaul - Bloomberg.com |
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NK, I don't recall having spewed any crap about "death panels" but I have spoken of what was in the bill and I also noted the VA's "planning" book which was rightly suspended by the Bush administration. Why is any of this in a government program allegedly providing health care?
I'm not here to knock advance planning but it has no place in a government program, designed by advocates of physician assisted suicide, providing financial incentives to doctors and presented in a format as unbiased as a push poll. |
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Nah... refer them here instead. Michelle Malkin Death panels? What death panels? Oh, those death panels There are a bunch of good links to what is ALREADY going on in nationalized health care. Or just tell them to look up the "Massachusets Model" medical system. THAT is national health care. Elliot |
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Or just read the words of Zeke Emanuel.
Unlike allocation by sex or race, allocation by age is not invidious discrimination; every person lives through different life stages rather than being a single age. Even if 25-year-olds receive priority over 65-year-olds, everyone who is 65 years now was previously 25 years." - "Services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia." "When implemented, the complete lives system produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most substantial chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated." "Unlike allocation by sex or race, allocation by age is not invidious discrimination; every person lives through different life stages rather than being a single age. Even if 25-year-olds receive priority over 65-year-olds, everyone who is 65 years now was previously 25 years." "Strict youngest-first allocation directs scarce resources predominantly to infants. This approach seems incorrect. The death of a 20-year-old woman is intuitively worse than that of a 2-month-old girl, even though the baby has had less life. The 20-year-old has a much more developed personality than the infant, and has drawn upon the investment of others to begin as-yet-unfulfilled projects.... Adolescents have received substantial substantial education and parental care, investments that will be wasted without a complete life. Infants, by contrast, have not yet received these investments.... It is terrible when an infant dies, but worse, most people think, when a three-year-old child dies, and worse still when an adolescent does." "Vague promises of savings from cutting waste, enhancing prevention and wellness, installing electronic medical records and improving quality are merely 'lipstick' cost control, more for show and public relations than for true change. Savings will require changing how doctors think about their patients. Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath too seriously, as an imperative to do everything for the patient regardless of the cost or effects on others." "Every favor to a constituency should be linked to support for the health-care reform agenda. If the automakers want a bailout, then they and their suppliers have to agree to support and lobby for the administration's health-reform effort." |
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NK, There have been about 10 or 12 attempts by Republicans to amend the legislation in both the House and the Senate so that there is no confusion about "death panels"... to essentially change or eliminate the language that Reps point to as proof of the death panels existence. To remove the confusion, in essence. The Dems could easily change the language of the legislation, either with their own amendments or by adopting the Republican amendments. They could EASILY clean up the language and eliminate the entire argument from the Conservatives side (thus weakening the conservative position) in about 5 minutes. They haven't. They have chosen to leave things as they are without change, even when they know that this is part of what is killing the bill for them. Why not make a simple change in language to fix things so that the American people aren't scared of death panels? It would make passing the bill easier, wouldn't it? And they could do it quite benignly, without killing the nature of their bill. So why don't they? Answer: Because the death panel is exactly what we have said it is and they WANT IT TO BE IN THE LEGISLATION. THEY WANT DEATH PANELS. If they didn't, they'd kill this political hot potato that is destroying them in the polls with a simple amendment to the bill. They know what it says. They know our interpretation is correct. And they WANT it in the bill anyway. There is no other explanation for their stubborn refusal to make simple changes to on the issue to eliminate any confusion. Because there is no confusion. Elliot |
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