[cottontop1044]

My wife filed for disability in 2001.She got turned downed and we didn't pursue it.She refiled again in July 2008.We have a lawyer and waiting on a hearing.If she wins,will she get back pay to first time she filed,2001?We have two kids, would they get any type of money from my wife disability claim?

[N0help4u]

She would get from the time She refiled again in July 2008. If she had not let the original lapse but kept appealing she would have gotten it from that point.
The kids should be eligible to receive benefits through her benefits or they just figure the amount in I am not sure. I know my kids each got money from their dads SSD but we were divorced.

[twinkiedooter]

She would get benefits from July 2008 once she is awarded the benefits. I would suggest that your wife immediately to to SS and file for benefits for the children as they will get retroactive benefits from the time she files for them, not back to July 2008 for her. Anytime she is turned down for disability she needs to keep appealing. The first time she was turned down for disability is when she should have gotten an attorney involved. An attorney is not allowed to get involved until the person is turned down ONCE. After that first turndown the person is allowed to keep applying or appealing until the case is won.

You must remember also, that even if she is awarded benefits the first 6 months after applying is considered the waiting period and she will not be paid anything during those waiting 6 months.

Depending on the severity of her disability it may take years to accomplish. Have her go down though and file for the kid's benefits now before too much time goes by as they will have the same 6 months waiting period as well after the benefits are awarded.

[DisabledinMD]

The secret to getting a disability claim approved, without going through the appeal process, is making sure you explain in detail how and why your condition affects your day to day ability to function normally. This is where many people fail, they think that doctors and tests are sufficient. I have helped people successfully win their award upon initial application, by advising them of this fact. They then test you to verify your claims, so one should, of course, be honest. I applied 3 months after an auto accident, upon advice of the 2 doctors treating me, 6 months later I had my approval and Award Letter. My caee worker told me I got it because I did two things most applicants fail to do: 1) Be very detail in the section asking for how your condition affects your daily activities and functioning, and 2) be legible (I typed my application, you can now fill it out online at the SSA website.)

The lawyer brings up in court, what the applicant failed to provide initially. Once the administrative law judge is satisfied you are impaired on a day-to-day basis as a result of your disability, he awards you benefits. If it is SSDI she gets, the children can get benefits as well. Benefits for her are retroactive from the most recent date she applied. Go online and sign the kids up in the meantime, once she gets benefits, they will be eligible from the date you sign them up.

[twinkiedooter]

[QUOTE=DisabledinMD;2034539] I have helped people successfully win their award upon initial application, by advising them of this fact. They then test you to verify your claims, so one should, of course, be honest. I applied 3 months after an auto accident, upon advice of the 2 doctors treating me, 6 months later I had my approval and Award Letter. My caee worker told me I got it because I did two things most applicants fail to do: 1) Be very detail in the section asking for how your condition affects your daily activities and functioning, and 2) be legible (I typed my application, you can now fill it out online at the SSA website.)


If you are "advising" people who are filing for their initial claim then I sure hope you have a license to practice law. No attorney is allowed to get involved LEGALLY with a SSD claim until after the claimant has been denied at least once. What you are doing is ILLEGAL. You need to cease doing this or, trust me, you will be caught and prosecuted for practicing law without a license.

Just because you were approved rather quickly does not mean everyone is approved quickly. In some states you need to be denied at least 3 times prior to approval and then only after the person had an attorney help them in their appeal. I worked for a SSD attorney for years who, by law, was not allowed to help a person prior to being denied by SSD at least once. He even had to handle several appeals for one person before that person was approved. You make it out as being a slam, bam, file and get approved thing. This is totally wrong. Sorry.

Also, the waiting period WAS 6 months. It was just recently changed. Same as the children of the workers getting benefits from the time the case was filed. That changed also recently.

[JudyKayTee]

The secret to getting a disability claim approved, without going through the appeal process, is making sure you explain in detail how and why your condition affects your day to day ability to function normally. This is where many people fail, they think that doctors and tests are sufficient. I have helped people successfully win their award upon initial application, by advising them of this fact. They then test you to verify your claims, so one should, of course, be honest. I applied 3 months after an auto accident, upon advice of the 2 doctors treating me, 6 months later I had my approval and Award Letter. My caee worker told me I got it because I did two things most applicants fail to do: 1) Be very detail in the section asking for how your condition affects your daily activities and functioning, and 2) be legible (I typed my application, you can now fill it out online at the SSA website.)

The lawyer brings up in court, what the applicant failed to provide initially. Once the administrative law judge is satisfied you are impaired on a day-to-day basis as a result of your disability, he awards you benefits. If it is SSDI she gets, the children can get benefits as well. Benefits for her are retroactive from the most recent date she applied. Go online and sign the kids up in the meantime, once she gets benefits, they will be eligible from the date you sign them up.

You have helped people successfully (as opposed to unsuccessfully - ?) win their claim? You cannot provide legal help unless you are a licensed Attorney in most States. This concerns me.

[JudyKayTee]

I checked the SS site and it appears that representation by an Attorney is not permitted unless a claim has been denied because Attorneys can only get paid a percentage of the recovery, not an hourly or flat rate fee.

Does anyone have specific info to the contrary or additional background on this?

[twinkiedooter]

I checked the SS site and it appears that representation by an Attorney is not permitted unless a claim has been denied because Attorneys can only get paid a percentage of the recovery, not an hourly or flat rate fee.

Does anyone have specific info to the contrary or additional background on this?

Nothing to add other than I worked for an attorney in Florida for 7 years who did disability claims. He turned away more clients because they were not turned down at least once. Many of those folks came back once they had their denial letter in hand and he accepted them as a client.

In most disability cases the hours and hours that are put in by the attorney and his staff in compiling and reviewing the medical records is a lot. I can't tell you how many happy hours I spent at the local SS office copying their medical file/medical records on the claimant that they had and then went back to the office and compared each page with what records the attorney's office had and made sure that both sets of medical records were identical for use at the Administrative Hearing for the claimant. I also had to take my own paper to the SS office as they did not provide paper, only the machine to copy the files on. And I had to make an appointment to go there and copy the files and produce the proper signed authorizations to do so.

Most people have no idea just how complicated filing a SS claim can be. They only look at the bottom line where the attorney gets "free" money from the claimant. They and their staff work hard for that "free" money. Plus they do not get a dime up front either. They are only paid sometimes after years and years of representing the claimant.

[JudyKayTee]

[QUOTE=Comments on this post
JudyKayTee agrees: Yes, you're the expert in this - LOVED.[/QUOTE]


Got chopped off - LOVED the part where you used their machine... but your paper!

[twinkiedooter]

Got chopped off - LOVED the part where you used their machine ... but your paper!

Yes, I had to schlep blank reams of paper with me not knowing just how many reams I'd use up either! And the part about having to make an appointment and keeping it as well was important. I got to know the nice ladies down at the local office so well that when I'd call up they'd tell me approximately how much paper to bring with me. Wasn't that nice of them? They'd tell me the file was 8" thick, etc. and I would approximate the paper to bring along.

I was only allowed just so many hours of copying also and could not run over as there was someone else in line ready to copy the records.

And (this is the part that gets me) not all of the attorneys would send a representative from their offices either. A lot of attorneys were there standing at the copy machine copying the files themselves!! They must have been sole practitioners with no office help though.

It was critical that the paperwork at the SS office was up to date and matched what the attorney had in his files. I can't tell you how many times I discovered that even though I had sent in the medical records to SS that the records were not properly added to the claimant's file. The onus was on the attorney's office to ensure the latest medical records were sent to SS as well as the doctor's offices were quite lax in this endeavor as they didn't really care. I would have to coordinate with the claimant when their last doctor's visit was, call up or request in writing the latest addition to the doctor's notes or new test results and then forward everything on to SS.

[DisabledinMD]

If you are "advising" people who are filing for their initial claim then I sure hope you have a license to practice law. No attorney is allowed to get involved LEGALLY with a SSD claim until after the claimant has been denied at least once. What you are doing is ILLEGAL. You need to cease doing this or, trust me, you will be caught and prosecuted for practicing law without a license.

Please cite your source regarding your claims? You aren't even making any sense. First you disagreed with my post by stating the following: "twinkiedooter disagrees: A lawyer cannot legally help anyone filing a SSD claim. What you are doing is illegal." 1) Did I ever claim to be a lawyer? No, I didn't. Don't even know where you came up with that one. Then, you contradict yourself by stating that I need a license to practice law to advise people who are filing their initial claim, and that I can be prosecuted for advising people without a license. So, which is it? Can a lawyer advise, or not? If not, then why would someone advising others on filing a claim need a law license?

I post in a few groups which deal with disability issues, and a number of us advise, assist, and help people who post asking questions about filing initial claims. We help with appeals, reviews and other matters. One is a grouop dedicated to SSDI, and a regular there is a retired employee of SSA, who handled such claims and has a lot of experience to offer. There is also a Yahoo! Group that is dedicated specifically to people helping, advising and assisting others through the claim process for both SSDI and SSI. I guess they must be breaking the law, somebody needs to shut them down and prosecute them for practicing as attorneys.

I posted about what you and Judy claim regarding the need for one to be a licensed attorney, and said that what we are doing in these groups must be illegal then. I then asked if we may advise, assist and help claimants. The retired SSA individual posted the following:

"SSA employees are barred from helping individuals pursue their claims,
except as specified in their official capacity.

Non-SSA employees are not barred from helping anyone. Non-attorney
disability advocates even represent people in front of the ALJ.

There is no law at present that bars you from giving your opinions in
these newsgroups, blogs, etc. After all, SSA has posted their
regulations, rulings, and POMS online for the world to see. Just
point the people in the right direction and let them see for
themselves. Nothing illegal about that."


He further said:

"Rep payees help people complete their applications. They can be
friends, relatives, or even the neighborhood bartender."

A neighbor in my building had one of those, the Pastor from her church. He helped her apply for SSI, and acted as Rep Payee for her checks. She also had him appointed as Power of Attorney regarding her finances and health. He paid the bils, saw to it that she got her prescriptions, scheduled doctors visits, etc.

The retired SSA employee then provided a link to this page which talks about representing someone by appointment. It clearly differentiates the difference between an appointed representative which accepts a fee and someone just assisting a claimant.

GN 03910.020 Who Is a Representative
https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.n...0!opendocument

Some facts that can be gleaned from this page that contradict your claim.

1) A person who is not an attorney may serve as a claimant's representative...
2) Under the regulations, only individual persons may be appointed and act as representatives before SSA. A claimant may appoint more than one person as his /her representative. However, an entity such as a firm, partnership, legal corporation, or other organization is not an individual person; therefore, the claimant may not appoint an entity to act as his/her representative.
3) Persons rendering the following types of assistance are not acting as “representatives,”... : a friend or relative who accompanies a claimant to an interview and assists the claimant by, e.g. answering questions or providing evidence, but who will not act in an ongoing role as the claimant's advocate. (Which supports the comment by the retired SSA employee above regarding anyone can help, advise, assist.)
4)If an individual is assisting the claimant during an interview or telephone contact at any stage of the claims process, and it is not clear whether he/she is representing the claimant, or only informally helping the claimant or supplying information (bold emphasis mine) *:

• advise the claimant regarding his/her right to representation (see GN 03910.030) and SSA's fee authorization processes (see GN 03920.001 ff.);

• ask the claimant whether he/she wishes the other person to act on his/her behalf as a representative; and

• have the claimant appoint the person (see GN 03910.040), if the claimant wants that person to represent him/her.

* There's another statement backing up what the retired emplyee saying about anyone can assist, advise, help claimants.

As he said, there is absolutely nothing that says one cannot advise a person during the claims process by supplying information. And we do this all the time in this SSDI group that he is a regular in, and in other disability related ones. Another group poster added the following:

"Assisting someone in completing a form with complete answers, or
answers that are phrased in a way that the system expects and
interacts is not giving legal advise.

If so every disability agency around, few of whom employ lawyers that
assist with forms completion, would be in jail."

Everyone in the groups mentioned above volunteer their time and help to the groups. None are paid, and none are lawyers.

I respectfully ask that you and Judy supply your sources that say anything I, or these others, are doing, is in any way illegal and subject to prosecution.

Just because you were approved rather quickly does not mean everyone is approved quickly. In some states you need to be denied at least 3 times prior to approval and then only after the person had an attorney help them in their appeal. I worked for a SSD attorney for years who, by law, was not allowed to help a person prior to being denied by SSD at least once. He even had to handle several appeals for one person before that person was approved. You make it out as being a slam, bam, file and get approved thing. This is totally wrong. Sorry.

Never claimed that, I only stated what happened in my own individual situation. It's a pretty well known fact the majority are denied and must go through the appeal process. I stated what happened to me, and what my caseworker told me when I asked. If you fill out the claim right the first time, your odds are better of getting approved, than if you don't. If you fail to provide the necessary information upfront, you are more likely to be denied. The retired SSA employee provided the following to further explain:


"In the disability determination process, symptoms serve to alert the adjudicator as to where to concentrate development efforts in seeking to determine whether a medically demonstrable impairment exists. If such an impairment can be demonstrated on the basis of signs or laboratory findings, the individual's symptoms are considered “explained” and may be helpful in evaluating the effects of the impairment on an adult's ability to do work-related activities in cases in which the Listing of Impairments is not equaled or met, or the ability of a child to function in an age-appropriate manner."

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.n...0!opendocument

DI 24501.020 Symptoms, Signs, and Laboratory Findings

Also, the waiting period WAS 6 months. It was just recently changed. Same as the children of the workers getting benefits from the time the case was filed. That changed also recently.

I don't know where you have been, but it was 5 months when I applied back in 1993, in fact the waiting period has been 5 months since 1973. Certainly not 'recently', as you claimed. Children, regardless of whether they're minor, disabled, or students, have never had their own waiting period. Their month of entitlement
Is the same as the parent, assuming that they meet all the requirements for childhood benefits. If the parent is already receiving benefits, the child is immediately eligible from the month and day of application. This happened with my former SIL. The father of her one child receives SSDI; the child became immediately eligible for benefits upon birth, as the father applied immediately after, and the benefits were retroactive. The mother receives the check because she has primary custody. The child in question is now 10 yo.



See the two links below, straight from SSA.

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.n...0!opendocument
Scroll down to section B.

SSA Handbook §0323

I stand behind my original statements and provided the source to back them up. Your source for it being recent is..?


I wasn't even going to bother returning to this thread, until I saw the comments section while checking my account, and was wondering what in the world led to the "twinkiedooter disagrees: A lawyer cannot legally help anyone filing a SSD claim. What you are doing is illegal."

[DisabledinMD]

You have helped people successfully (as opposed to unsuccessfully - ?) win their claim? You cannot provide legal help unless you are a licensed Attorney in most States. This concerns me.

Did I say I was providing legal help in lieu of an attorney? No, I did not. I said I advise them, advice can be assisting, helping, a number of things. See my reply above. No different than what many do here. Are you an attorney? Are you advising people on legal matters on these boards? Seems like you spend a great deal of time on the legal boards. I didn't know they were full of licensed attorneys, I guess all the people giving advice must be breaking the law, huh? Of course, you aren't presenting yourself as an attorney, well, neither am I, nor did I. One need not be an attorney, one can be a paid representative, or even a friend or family member to advice a claimant on how to fill out an application.

[DisabledinMD]

I checked the SS site and it appears that representation by an Attorney is not permitted unless a claim has been denied because Attorneys can only get paid a percentage of the recovery, not an hourly or flat rate fee.

Does anyone have specific info to the contrary or additional background on this?

Regarding legal representation as an attorney, they are not; but an individual attorney may serve as an appointed paid representative just as a non-attorney can. The details are spelled out below.

GN 03910.020 Who Is a Representative

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.n...0!opendocument

Representing Social Security Claimants - (20 CFR Part 404, Subpart R) and (20 CFR Part 416, Subpart 0

404.1735 even states:

"Services provided a claimant in any dealing with us under title II of the Act consist of services performed for that claimant in connection with any claim he or she may have before the Commissioner of Social Security under title II of the Act. These services include any in connection with any asserted right a claimant may have calling for an initial or reconsidered determination by us, and a decision or action by an administrative law judge or by the Appeals Council."

So, yes they can be involved in the initial claim process, according to SSA. but as one commented on the SSDI board I post on, "A LAWYER could help, but having a lawyer at that preliminary stage would be a waste of money."

[JudyKayTee]

Regarding legal representation as an attorney, they are not; but an individual attorney may serve as an appointed paid representative just as a non-attorney can. The details are spelled out below.

GN 03910.020 Who Is a Representative

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.n...0!opendocument

Representing Social Security Claimants - (20 CFR Part 404, Subpart R) and (20 CFR Part 416, Subpart 0

404.1735 even states:

"Services provided a claimant in any dealing with us under title II of the Act consist of services performed for that claimant in connection with any claim he or she may have before the Commissioner of Social Security under title II of the Act. These services include any in connection with any asserted right a claimant may have calling for an initial or reconsidered determination by us, and a decision or action by an administrative law judge or by the Appeals Council."

So, yes they can be involved in the initial claim process, according to SSA. but as one commented on the SSDI board I post on, "A LAWYER could help, but having a lawyer at that preliminary stage would be a waste of money."

Only here for the purpose of arguing with anyone who has different experience or a different viewpoint - or education or experience in the legal field.

Cutting and pasting provisions with have nothing to do with the question does not help. For example: "Services provided a claimant in any dealing with us under title II of the Act consist of services performed for that claimant in connection with any claim he or she may have before the Commissioner of Social Security under title II of the Act. These services include any in connection with any asserted right a claimant may have calling for an initial or reconsidered determination by us, and a decision or action by an administrative law judge or by the Appeals Council."

Time to close - argument is over who is and who is not a legal representative, nothing to do with OP's original question.

[twinkiedooter]

I am sure JKT and I can play cut and paste all day long as well. You went way past the question at hand here.

I second that this post needs to be closed as well.

[JudyKayTee]

I am sure JKT and I can play cut and paste all day long as well. You went way past the question at hand here.

I second that this post needs to be closed as well.

I'm fascinated - and I'm sure I'm not the only one - that a person who is collecting SSD because of a total inability to work is handing out advice and, according to what is posted above, "representing" people who are filing for SS.

Also has plenty of time for the Internet and is doing cut and paste research.

- yet is unable to perform any type of productive work.

Hmm.

[twinkiedooter]

I'm fascinated - and I'm sure I'm not the only one - that a person who is collecting SSD because of a total inability to work is handing out advice and, according to what is posted above, "representing" people who are filing for SS.

Also has plenty of time for the Internet and is doing cut and paste research.

- yet is unable to perform any type of productive work.

Hmm.

Yep, me too. I smell working under the table... and living in rent free or practically rent free housing, and running up credit card bills. How, pray tell, does someone do that? I'm definitely in the wrong racket, JKT, definitely in the wrong racket.

[JudyKayTee]

Did I say I was providing legal help in lieu of an attorney? No, I did not. I said I advise them, advice can be assisting, helping, a number of things. See my reply above. No different than what many do here. Are you an attorney? Are you advising people on legal matters on these boards? Seems like you spend a great deal of time on the legal boards. I didn't know they were full of licensed attorneys, I guess all the people giving advice must be breaking the law, huh? Of course, you aren't presenting yourself as an attorney, well, neither am I, nor did I. One need not be an attorney, one can be a paid representative, or even a friend or family member to advice a claimant on how to fill out an application.

In lieu of an Attorney? You are either providing legal advice or you are not. "In lieu of" doesn't enter into the equation.

I never said I was advising people off the Board, never. That's the difference between us. That and a couple of other things to be determined at a later date.