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Mdcunningham · Jul 29, 2009, 06:05 AM

In a case where parental figures have only done a child support order , no court order for custody , what are the fathers rights on visitation ? What needs to be done between the two partys so that the child is allowed to visit one of the parents ?

the story :

the only legal documents , to my knowledge, is the parental form from child support. I signed this long ago because at the very least I could pay child support. This was taken and arranged by the courts and I have diligently paid it for the last 12 years. Me and the ex were never married and ( as stupid as it sounds) I have always let her dictate the relationship between my Son and I. With that said , I have not seen my son in over 12 years , but I have talked to him on a regular basis. Now because of family matters on her end , my son is being rebelious and she has no idea what to do with him. I agreed to let him come visit for 2 weeks and we both talked in length about it. I know that this might be considered as a verbal contract , but I hear horror storys of peoples ex's setting something like this up and then calling the police under the false pretense of " kidnapping" . I want to be trusting and take this visit at face value , but I also don't want to end up in jail. What is the best action I can take in a short time ? ( he comes to visit in 10 days)

also , this is an out of state visit. She lives in Kansas city while I live in boston. I have bought the plane tickets and sent her all the flight information.

N0help4u · Jul 29, 2009, 06:16 AM

You need to go to court and have a custody put in place. Otherwise she can come get him and bring him back at any time at her convince and all kinds of things can go wrong.
You need the order to back you up. Like what if he feels he doesn't want to be with you because he liked that he could walk all over mom? With an order in place it would be easier to bring him back.
Is she wanting you to have full custody?
Her have some visitations? You need to work out a plan with her and do the custody order.

Line everything up asap as soon as you get there. Maybe she could get the forms to file so they are there as soon as you get there.

Mdcunningham · Jul 29, 2009, 06:47 AM

She doesn't want to give up custody , nor am I pushing for it. It is a stright forward visit in which he stays here for 2 weeks and then flys back home. We both agreed on this.

For just a visit , what forms would I need her to sign ? I'm totally lost in terms of legal stuff .

this8384 · Jul 29, 2009, 06:55 AM

Are you paying child support through the state, or are you simply mailing her a check every month?

Have you been established as the legal father through a court-ordered DNA test, or by signing a paternity acknowledgement form? If so, then you should have been granted certain visitation rights.

Like N0help pointed out, if you don't have a visitation agreement, she could demand that you send him back to her as soon as he gets off the plane - and you would have to comply.

N0help4u · Jul 29, 2009, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mdcunningham

she dosnt want to give up custody , nor am i pushing for it. It is a stright forward visit inwhich he stays here for 2 weeks and then flys back home. We both agreed on this.

for just a visit , what forms would i need her to sign ? im totaly lost in terms of legal stuff .

She doesn't have to give up custody you do a JOINT custody filing
You can even file it as you being primary and her have the visitations
Or visa versa --depending

Fr_Chuck · Jul 29, 2009, 07:01 AM

A court ordered visitiation is not giving up custody.

When and for how long you get visits need to be done though a court order

Mdcunningham · Jul 29, 2009, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by this8384

Are you paying child support through the state, or are you simply mailing her a check every month?

Have you been established as the legal father through a court-ordered DNA test, or by signing a paternity acknowledgement form?

I have a court order through the state of missori to pay child support. I did this by signing a paternity form through child services in which it stated that I waived my right to a dna test because I believe I am the father. The courts then went through the process in which they sent me forms to sign over this. I will look at the forms and see if there is anything stating custidy or visitation , but I don't believe it states anything as it was just a child support order. I am also on the birth certificate and he has my last name.

N0help4u · Jul 29, 2009, 07:15 AM

You also want to get the support order modified since you will be having him living with you. But you would have to have the custody papers taken care of first so they know what percentage of the time he is going to be with you to come up with an adjusted amount

Justwantfair · Jul 29, 2009, 07:16 AM

Your child support order will not list anything pertaining to custody, except probably list you as the non-custodial parent or similar term.

Filing for visitation is separate and within your rights as a father.

She can still have full custody of the child while you get visits either through the summer with holiday breaks as well since you live out of state, but you would have to file that. If you file quickly, you can have the court do an agreed order allowing the agreed visit, so that you will be legally covered for one. It would make your visitation more standardized.

Justwantfair · Jul 29, 2009, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by N0help4u

You also want to get the support order modified since you will be having him living with you. But you would have to have the custody papers taken care of first so they know what percentage of the time he is going to be with you to come up with an adjusted amount

You can't have a support order modified for a two week visit.

Mdcunningham · Jul 29, 2009, 07:31 AM

I apreciate all the help in such a speedy maner. I will go to the local court house on my lunch break to see about starting the paperwork. I leaped first because it has been so long since seeing my son and it wasn't until yesterday that I started thinking of the consequences to that. I probably wouldn't even have thought about it unless my mother had said something :) She suggested coming here to these forums as well as just getting my ex to write out a "permision" slip for my son to come visit.

N0help4u · Jul 29, 2009, 07:33 AM

If you went with the 'permission' slip you would have to have it notarized and then it most likely may not hold up.
With a joint custody thing you won't have to worry what about enrolling him in school and things like that.

Justwantfair · Jul 29, 2009, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by N0help4u

If you went with the 'permission' slip you would have to have it notarized and then it most likely may not hold up.
With a joint custody thing you won't have to worry what about enrolling him in school and things like that.

I still think we are only talking about a two week visit, not a change of custody.
Am I mistaken?

Mdcunningham · Jul 29, 2009, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by Justwantfair

I still think we are only talking about a two week visit, not a change of custody.
Am I mistaken?

No , it is not a change in custody , it is a striaght forward visit from the 7th till the 23rd. That is what is in front of me. That's what I have said all along.

N0help4u · Jul 29, 2009, 07:41 AM

Oh yeah I was forgetting the amount of time because I guess I focused on the fact that mom can't handle his rebellion.
He really should take it to court and see about coming up with a better plan than just two weeks though so he can establish a bond with him and be and actual part of his life.

Justwantfair · Jul 29, 2009, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by N0help4u

oh yeah I was forgetting the amount of time because I guess I focused on the fact that mom can't handle his rebellion.
He really should take it to court and see about coming up with a better plan than just two weeks though so he can establish a bond with him and be and actual part of his life.

I agree completely.
A twelve year old boy who is acting out could really use a father in his life for some guidance.

Justwantfair · Jul 29, 2009, 07:46 AM

To my knowledge any filings for visitation would need to be done in the child's jurisdiction with the mother's residence or possibly where the original child support order was issued, just so that you are aware.

Mdcunningham · Jul 29, 2009, 07:49 AM

Now you guys have confused me. A signed permision slip for 2 weeks may or may not cover me or do I hit the courthouse to get approval or what am I suppose to start doing ? I can't leave that up to her as she will more then likely not file it and send him anyway , which leaves me open to a kidnapping charge or worse.

Justwantfair · Jul 29, 2009, 07:55 AM

Legally, the right answer is to file in court and immediately do that, but it has to be the court with jurisdiction to rule on issues pertaining to the child. Hopefully if filed in time, you and your ex can write in for an agreed order granting the two week visit. Your relationship clearly isn't comfortable as you are worried she would try and file a kidnapping charge. Is she the one purchasing the tickets?

N0help4u · Jul 29, 2009, 07:59 AM

I would go with going to court and getting a joint custody thing filed.
With a joint custody thing no matter how little or how much you see your kid the mother has to inform you of important things going on in his life like doctors appts, surgery, school things and so forth.
If you want him for Christmas vacations and a couple weeks or more for summer vacations or whatever then that can be included. Plus with a joint custody thing you don't have to keep going through this because you will have your rights. Like what if she has another spur of the moment emergency.