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bagchip · Jul 23, 2009, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by speedball1

Your Delta valve has seats and springs instead of a cartridge. Perhaps the hot water pipes were disturbed or you have mineral build up in the heater but the hot water seat is blocked in both valves.
To access the valve, remove the handle and the face plate. You should see screwdriver stops where the water enters the valve. If not turn off the water. Now unscrew the bonnet nut and pull out the stem unit assembly. This will expose the seats and springs. Remove them and check the opening for crud or blockage. Now, while the valve is open) turn on the hot water and flush out the supply line. You should have a full stream. If so, reassemble. If not then the blockage is further downstream and you may have to call in outside help. Good luck, Tom

I seem to have the same problem in one of my showers! I presumed that it was due to hard water crud but as I was unable to get to the guts of the plumbing, I have been not been able to do anything with it! I don't really know what brand of shower valve or shower head it is! I am attaching a picture of the valve here. Could some one identify the manufacturer? Here is the head. Please note that I have not been able to get behind the wall.

Any help will be appreciated. Thanks bagchip

massplumber2008 · Jul 23, 2009, 04:30 PM

Hi Bagchip:

Looks like a GROHE thermostatic mixing valve to me... see similar Grohe faucet below... German made... ;) Parts will be available ONLY through a plumbing supply house or online.

Remove the handle and then the rest of the parts SPIN off counterclockwise.

Let us know how you make out... O.K.?

MARK

bagchip · Jul 23, 2009, 05:25 PM

Is this it?
Remove the handle: How?
Rest of the parts SPIN off counterclockwise: Shall try!
Thanks a lot!

massplumber2008 · Jul 23, 2009, 06:20 PM

Whatever is in the very center of the handle... is it a chrome cap (?)... that needs to be pried up using a little flat screwdriver and that should reveal the screw holding the handle in place.

Otherwise, I would need to check to find out how to remove this by looking at Grohe spec. sheet and even then I can't promise.

See if you can run down a spec. sheet at the Grohe website:

GROHE - Why GROHE?

A call and an e-mail with that picture should also help them to get information to you pretty quickly... ;)

Let me know what you discover as you go.

Thanks...

MARK

bagchip · Jul 23, 2009, 06:44 PM

Whatever is in the very center of the handle... is it a chrome cap (?)... that needs to be pried up using a little flat screwdriver and that should reveal the screw holding the handle in place. --- Done that. I shall turn the screw counterclockwise and see how I do and let you know.

Thanks MARK

I shall turned the screw counterclockwise and the valve handle came off! Those Germans, smart s of g's! Now the scene is as this. Iguess, I do the following: Turn the H&C water off in the basement. What next? Do I just play with it, until I figure it out?
You know MARK, you are a good teacher!

massplumber2008 · Jul 24, 2009, 03:17 AM

I'm glad to help...

That picture is real fuzzy so can't be 100% sure, but yeah, turn off the hot/cold water to the valve and then discharge the pressure by opening the valve. Then you can try to remove the chrome, etc. by loosening all counterclockwise.

There may also be a clip involved.

If you can clear up the pic. I may be able to tell you more...

MARK

hkstroud · Jul 24, 2009, 04:45 AM

..

bagchip · Jul 24, 2009, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by massplumber2008

I'm glad to help....

That picture is real fuzzy so can't be 100% sure, but yeah, turn off the hot/cold water to the valve and then discharge the pressure by opening the valve. Then you can try to remove the chrome, etc. by loosening all counterclockwise.

There may also be a clip involved.

If you can clear up the pic. I may be able to tell you more....

MARK

Yes, that is a bad picture! Here is a better one MARK.

I have also been busy. I contacted GROHE. Evan Thomas, in their SC identified the valve controller and sent me a cleaning procedure. Evan was very helpful. He also told me that I would need a 24mm socket to take the nut out. So, I got a metric set from Harbor.
Mark also told me to pry off the various rings, washers, control rings etc. and then take the bolt off. Except all these seems to be stuck so strongly that I have not been able to take them off yet. The temperature controlling ring seems to go around but I have not been able to pry it forward with a screw driver.

Do you think that drops warm vinegar solution could be used to dissolve the calcium?

bagchip · Jul 24, 2009, 11:03 AM

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hkstroud · Jul 24, 2009, 02:40 PM

Click on the orange button "Rate this Answer" in Marks Response.

Looks like you remove the handle by removing the nut in the center.

massplumber2008 · Jul 24, 2009, 03:48 PM

Hey hey bagchip...

Most every Grohe faucet I've worked on has assembled/disassembled differently so this one is a bit tricky!

Have you loosened the screw in the middle of the nut... that is another screw I see there... yes? Try that first. Then try loosening the nut using a socket wrench and ratchet driver.

Otherwise, see if Grohe can send you a specification sheet on this valve... we can tell you how to finish this then for sure!

Sorry it's not easier...

MARK

PS: I'll see if Milo can pop in and look at this... he's worked with quite a few like this I believe... ;)

bagchip · Jul 24, 2009, 04:13 PM

Have you loosened the screw in the middle of the nut...that is another screw I see there...yes??
Yes, I have. After about 1 1/2 count clock turn it stops with no loosening!
Try that first. Then try loosening the nut using a socket wrench and ratchet driver.
The lip on the last ring is big enough to prevent a 14mm deep socket to be inserted!
Otherwise, see if Grohe can send you a specification sheet on this valve...we can tell you how to finish this then for sure!
[I shall call GROHE tomorrow about the specs.
PS: I'll see if Milo can pop in and look at this...he's worked with quite a few like this I believe...
Sounds good! Thanks, bagchip

bagchip · Jul 24, 2009, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by bagchip

Have you loosened the screw in the middle of the nut...that is another screw I see there...yes??
Yes, I have. After about 1 1/2 count clock turn it stops with no loosening!
Try that first. Then try loosening the nut using a socket wrench and ratchet driver.
The lip on the last ring is big enough to prevent a 14mm deep socket to be inserted!
Otherwise, see if Grohe can send you a specification sheet on this valve...we can tell you how to finish this then for sure!
[I shall call GROHE tomorrow about the specs.
PS: I'll see if Milo can pop in and look at this...he's worked with quite a few like this I believe...
Sounds good! Thanks, bagchip

It should be a 24mm deep socket!

massplumber2008 · Jul 24, 2009, 04:21 PM

If Milo doesn't pop by I'll stop by my supplier in the AM and see if they can help us here. I could keep guessing, but we could damage the valve and we don't want that, for sure!

I seem to be forgetting something here..?

Talk soon...

MARK

bagchip · Jul 24, 2009, 04:34 PM

I am worried about damaging it too. Never thought that it could be so tricky. Current GROHE folks are probably not old enough to have worked on this model! The initial installation was was probably done 18 years ago! I am the second owner of the house. The previous owner was very good about keeping all records, but I could not find any for this shower valve!

bagchip

Milo Dolezal · Jul 24, 2009, 06:06 PM

Excuse the timeliness of my response to this question...

Yes, I am very familiar with this unit. Mark correctly identified it, it is Grohe product. More specifically, it is old GroheMix model # 34.434.000 unit. It is still considered to be a great faucet. It used to be top-of-the-line valve in the early 80's. However, this line has been discontinued for few years now. It has been replaced with GroheTemp valves. You can still purchase replacement cartridges from professional plumbing supply house. It will run you about $60.00.I would not advise you to try to replace O-rings and other washers on the stem. There are many interior parts you cannot easily get to. I would not even recommend to attempt to "clean" it. I would suggest that you get new stem, put it in and you are set for the next 20 years.

I noticed you are not disassembling the faucet the way you should. Follow these instruction:
1. Remove screw cap
2. Remove screw
3. Remove handle
4. Remove TEMPERATURE LIMIT RING
5. Remove eschutcheon with sleeve
And now...
6. take that socket wrench and remove the THERMOELEMENT CARTRIDGE

Take new cartridge, apply supplied Grohe grease on the body of the cartridge and carefully insert it in. Do not force it. It has to nicely slide in. Now, proceed with installing the parts you have removed - but in reverse order.

You will have to play for few minutes with adjusting water temperature so it corresponds with marks on the temp-dial. Here you have to be patient and follow installation instruction supplied with the cartridge.

I am enclosing exploded view of the stem and list of parts for your reference.

Good luck... Let me know how you did... Milo

bagchip · Jul 24, 2009, 06:55 PM

Thanks for your attention Milo. I am sure that I am not doing it right!

1. Remove screw cap
You mean Pos. No. 1.1? - Done
2. Remove screw
You mean Pos. No. 1.2? - Done
3. Remove handle
You mean Pos. No. 1? - Done
4. Remove TEMPERATURE LIMIT RING
You mean Pos. No. 2? HOW? Please elucidate.
5. Remove eschutcheon with sleeve
What do you mean by Sleeve and HOW?
And now...
6. take that socket wrench and remove the THERMOELEMENT CARTRIDGE
I can not do it til I remove the TEMPERATURE LIMIT RING!

How do I remove the TEMPERATURE LIMIT RING? That is what I think I need to do now! I need to achieve this before I proceed any further!

Thanks, bagchip

bagchip · Jul 24, 2009, 07:29 PM

Your procedure, Milo, is close to GROHE Cleamup Procedure.

Can you tell me "What is the handle Screw?"

Integrated Grohmix clean out
1) Remove escutcheon screws rotate 90 degrees and with a regular head screw driver
Close the water stops.
2) Remove thermo handle by unscrewing end cap counterclockwise and removing handle
Screw.
3) Remove temperature limit ring and retaining circlip and pull off lever assembly,
Once done remove the two pan head screws from the ends of the yoke plate and
Pull off yoke assembly.
4) Now with a 17mm socket remove both stop valves and with a 24mm wrench remove
The thermo element.

5) Clean and flush off both stop valves and the thermo cartridge

6) Once all is cleaned and relubricated reinstall stop valves and thermo cartridge.

7) Before using the valve you will need to calibrate the temperature, this is done by

Turning the water on and having the scale handle removed measure the temperature

With a thermometer turn the brass cone on the cartridge until the temperature reads

100 degrees and hold there, once done install the handle with the 100 degrees

In the 12:00 position.

Milo Dolezal · Jul 24, 2009, 07:42 PM

BagChip, Look at #2 in exploded view. I think you did not remove that one. I think you unscrew it. That is what actually holds the entire cartridge in. You will not be able to remove the cartridge unless #2 is out.

Handle screw is what you list in your last post under #2

I suggest that you remove the oval trim plate , too. It is held in by two long screws. This way, you will have better access to the other parts mentioned above. If your faucet is set too deep, or if you happen to have extension kit installed, you may not even see the body sleeve. It would be buried deep inside the wall. Remove the trim, it will by much easier for you to work on it...

Excuse me... but what's the problem with your existing cartridge ? Not enough hot water ?

bagchip · Jul 24, 2009, 08:00 PM

Look at #2 in exploded view. I think you did not remove that one. You unscrew it. That is what actually holds the entire cartridge in.
Handle screw is what you list in your last post under #2

I removed the screw that held the handle and I thought that it is part 1.2. I removed it, which allowed me to remove the handle. Under the handle is semiconical part that is held by another screw! This one I could not remove and I think is holding the TEMPERATURE LIMIT RING. How do I remove this screw. It is visible in the picture of the valve I provided.

Excuse me... but what's the problem with your existing cartridge ? Not enough hot water ?
No hot water is coming through. That is why I went through all this! I think you got it. I was under the impression that hard water crud has jammed everything up!

Thanks, bagchip