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    Coolhandluke31's Avatar
    Coolhandluke31 Posts: 71, Reputation: 1
    Junior Member
     
    #1

    Jul 22, 2009, 08:15 PM
    Questions about getting service
    Hi...

    New homeowner, I appreciate any help anyone can offer.

    I have 2 zone AC, compressors are Lennox HS29-261-3P. I have no idead how old they are or how good they were new.

    1 for upstairs, 1 for downstairs. Cooling approximately 1900 square feet.

    The system works fine downstairs. The upstairs blow and seems to dehumidify, but it doesn't chill.

    The upstairs air handler is in an attic space, should I expect to pay more because the service tech will have to go through a square hole in the closet to get at it?

    What should I tell the service tech so he doesn't sell me a new system. Is this problem obvious? I live in Westchester, NY. What should I expect to pay for a service call?

    I appreciate any info anyone is willing to share.
    hvac1000's Avatar
    hvac1000 Posts: 14,540, Reputation: 435
    Heating & Air Conditioning Expert
     
    #2

    Jul 23, 2009, 02:16 AM
    No one can really tell you about pricing since that is a local issue and the prices around the USA all differ. You can always call a few service companys to see what there service call and hourly rate is.

    There is nothing you can tell the service tech to prevent him from trying to sell you a new system except to say I want a estimate for the repairs on this unit since I do not plan on replacing it. If the price seems to high then get another estimate from a different company. Many times having two or more estimates for a expensive repair can help you to make the best decission as to what to do.

    You will have to pay for the service calls but with some of the prices I heard from the NY area I would get at least two unless the first person can repair it at a reasonable price.

    The problem you have might not be huge in nature so the first company can make the repair. Any repair over 400.00 I would question. Fell free to post back here with all the details so we may see exactly what they are saying is wrong. We will then be able to better advise you on your next move.

    Note: some info on the model you posted

    LENNOX HS29-261 / CB30M-31 / 5 KW 12.05 5 / 10 / 5 1 $2,269 > rebate> $103.00 total $2,166

    This price from 1999

    Note the A/C unit is a 12.5 SEER so it is a relative efficient unit

    The link

    http://www.arthurhewett.com/HTMLobj-1974/Splits_All.pdf
    Coolhandluke31's Avatar
    Coolhandluke31 Posts: 71, Reputation: 1
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    #3

    Jul 23, 2009, 07:13 AM
    Thanks for the info. Some of this new homeowner stuff is a little daunting. I wasn't expecting this problem the second month.

    I did call three places. Three prices in the same general range. I just need to cross my fingers it is nothing too serious.

    I realize this is not technical in nature, but if these compressors are 10 years old, how much longer should I expect them to last? They are in reasonable condition on the side of the house. Also, is that price including the air handler and the compressor? Or each compressor is $2,300?

    Another question, inside the house, there is the honeywell dial thermostat for the AC, and an older rectangular thermostat next to it. Can I get a heat/cool thermostat and just have one? It seems like something that can be done, although if it wasn't done from the start, I am not sure.

    Again, thank you for your help.

    Tom
    dac122's Avatar
    dac122 Posts: 463, Reputation: 17
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    #4

    Jul 23, 2009, 08:57 AM

    Hvac's price is an entire system, not including some small additional parts and labor. But as stated that price will vary in your locale, with labor being an important part of the system cost.

    Without seeing the system, or knowing how much it was used, it is hard to say how much life span is left. If in average shape and used regularly, perhaps the unit only has 1/3 of its life left. Realize that is huge wag.

    Find out what's wrong first before jumping to conclusions.

    If you are saying you have two thermostats, one for cooling and one for heating, yes they can be combined.
    Coolhandluke31's Avatar
    Coolhandluke31 Posts: 71, Reputation: 1
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    #5

    Jul 24, 2009, 07:28 AM

    The tech came to the house today. He is the same tech who has been coming to the house for the past 10 years. He says he knows the system on the house inside out, there has never been any trouble, but it is old and anything can happen.

    He told me there is no refrigerant in the system. The previous homeowner had the yearly brush up in April and it was fine so there is a leak somewhere. He also said that because is was fine in April and is empty now, it is a dramatic leak, for which trying to put refrigerant at $30 a pound isn't worth my money. The unit could hold up to 10 pounds he said.

    He also told me the leak could be in the condenser or the air handler, given their age, 1996, it would make more sense to replace the system rather than fix it. Why did I know this was coming.

    He quoted the price on eqipment and told me to mull it over.

    So I guess my question now would be is there any way to narrow down where the leak in the line might be or it isn't worth the effort. The tech said it could be anywhere, and at the hourly rate to look for it is wasted money, considering the age of the equipment.

    He didn't go into the attic to look at the air handler, he looked at the box outside, and came to the conclusion.
    wmproop's Avatar
    wmproop Posts: 3,749, Reputation: 91
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    #6

    Jul 24, 2009, 07:46 AM
    Get a 2nd opinion, maybe even a 3rd,, 12 -13 years old unless improper maintenance in the past /shouldn`t need replacing this soon,, should have at least another 5 years left in it, or more
    Coolhandluke31's Avatar
    Coolhandluke31 Posts: 71, Reputation: 1
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    #7

    Jul 24, 2009, 08:26 AM

    Assuming there is a leak in the system, how hard would it be to find? The outside box (compressor? ) has about 30 feet of piping to the attic to the air handler.
    Coolhandluke31's Avatar
    Coolhandluke31 Posts: 71, Reputation: 1
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    #8

    Jul 24, 2009, 08:34 AM

    Let me add this. He called me back a little while ago. He says my system takes R-22 Refrigerant which will not be available after the 12/31/09?
    dac122's Avatar
    dac122 Posts: 463, Reputation: 17
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    #9

    Jul 24, 2009, 08:34 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Coolhandluke31 View Post
    So I guess my question now would be is there any way to narrow down where the leak in the line might be or it isn't worth the effort. The tech said it could be anywhere, and at the hourly rate to look for it is wasted money, considering the age of the equipment.

    He didn't go into the attic to look at the air handler, he looked at the box outside, and came to the conclusion.
    Yes, there are many techniques for finding leaks, but sometimes it is more cost effective to replace the system than chasing leaks.

    I just spent many hours for a relative chasing a leak on the exact 2 ton version of your model, only one year newer. After fixing one leak from a bad factory braze we got tired of finding leaks and decided to just replace the unit and line set.

    Ask what they charge to find and fix leaks, or find someone else interested in doing that. You will have to weigh that cost with a new system. If you go that route I would only invest in one round of find-and-fix before just replacing.
    hvac1000's Avatar
    hvac1000 Posts: 14,540, Reputation: 435
    Heating & Air Conditioning Expert
     
    #10

    Jul 24, 2009, 08:36 AM
    How hard to find? Well it really depends upon exactly where it is at. Usually it is the outside or inside units the copper lineset unless improperly assembled or hit by a lawnmower usually do not leak. If the service person knows the usual leak points it will not be hard to find. Usually the leak area will have oil residue around it.
    dac122's Avatar
    dac122 Posts: 463, Reputation: 17
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    #11

    Jul 24, 2009, 08:38 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Coolhandluke31 View Post
    Let me add this. He called me back a little while ago. He says my system takes R-22 Refrigerant which will not be available after the 12/31/09?
    He is wrong, R-22 will be available for the next 10 years. And that doesn't include R-22 drop in replacements. Find someone that will not engage in scare tactics.
    wmproop's Avatar
    wmproop Posts: 3,749, Reputation: 91
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    #12

    Jul 24, 2009, 08:45 AM
    Sometime pretty easy,, do a visual at the lineset(copper lines)from start to finish,especially anywhere there is a joint or solder connection. Look/feel for oily residue, (sorry for the spelling) where there's oil there is a leak, also both inside and outside coils. If you find any it will make the job cheaper for you. From April till now (3 months) means its not a great big leak but not a tiny one either.
    Also at the condenser itself where the copper lines first start,under a cap you will find where the refrigerant guages are to be connected,, sometime they will leak there,, if you can help the tech it will make his stay a little shorter and save you some $$,, goodluck
    wmproop's Avatar
    wmproop Posts: 3,749, Reputation: 91
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    #13

    Jul 24, 2009, 08:49 AM
    PS,, r-22 will be around much longer than your 10 year old unit will last
    Coolhandluke31's Avatar
    Coolhandluke31 Posts: 71, Reputation: 1
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    #14

    Jul 24, 2009, 08:57 AM

    What is the story with the refrigerant? I can't get it next summer if I need it?

    What is a 2 ton unit? Is that sort of like BTU's for heaters? It is cooling about 900 square feet. Is that the right size?
    wmproop's Avatar
    wmproop Posts: 3,749, Reputation: 91
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    #15

    Jul 24, 2009, 09:24 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Coolhandluke31 View Post
    What is the story with the refrigerant? I can't get it next summer if I need it?

    What is a 2 ton unit? Is that sort of like BTU's for heaters? It is cooling about 900 square feet. Is that the right size?

    don`t worry about the r-22, it will be around a good while
    2 ton unit means its 2x12,000 btu`s =24,000 BTU ,each ton is 12,000 BTU in hvac lingo
    if house is insulated good and tight doors and windows that should be pretty close to what you need,, better to be a little to small than to be to big. Help to get rid of the humidity
    siberianair's Avatar
    siberianair Posts: 360, Reputation: -4
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    #16

    Jul 24, 2009, 12:45 PM

    r22 is no longer made after than but it will be available for a long time. The price will go up but it will be avaialable. I can get refridgerant they stopped making 60 years ago in 20 minutes if I need it.
    Coolhandluke31's Avatar
    Coolhandluke31 Posts: 71, Reputation: 1
    Junior Member
     
    #17

    Apr 9, 2010, 08:01 AM

    I am resurrecting this posting since the information is the same.

    4 tech's have looked at my AC system, they all want me to replace the system. I am still royally peeved the roofer almost a year later who shot a hole in my line set, but I need to move on.

    I am constantly told, there is no reason to repair a leaky evaporator coil on a 10 year old unit with a 30 foot lineset with a hole in the line at the roof joint. Plus new ones are SOOOO much more efficient and use 401. If I hear that one more time, I am going to scream.

    My question is how do I know that for about 1000 square feet, how do I know a 2 ton unit is too big or too small? Was this the right size to have had installed in the first place?
    dac122's Avatar
    dac122 Posts: 463, Reputation: 17
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    #18

    Apr 9, 2010, 09:18 AM

    The old rule of thumb says a 2 ton should cool that amount of area, but to know for sure you should do a Manual J. Who knows maybe you only need a 1.5 ton.

    I would say run the other way if someone wants to sell you highly efficient unit when you have so few days you need cooling in your region. You will never realize your ROI.
    Coolhandluke31's Avatar
    Coolhandluke31 Posts: 71, Reputation: 1
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    #19

    Apr 9, 2010, 10:07 AM

    The tech I am currently working with thinks a Goodman 2 ton 13 Seer unit would be a good replacement for the Lennox that was there. I have heard mixed reviews on Goodman. Anyone have any thoughts? Am I allowed to say what he wants to charge?
    hvac1000's Avatar
    hvac1000 Posts: 14,540, Reputation: 435
    Heating & Air Conditioning Expert
     
    #20

    Apr 9, 2010, 10:44 AM
    Look over the doc below. Always get more than one estimate.
    Attached Images
  1. File Type: pdf How to pick a Contractor.pdf (309.7 KB, 151 views)

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