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eah78 · Jul 15, 2009, 10:30 PM

I live in Texas and had my daughter's father's parental rights terminated 4 years ago. Now so much has changed and we are both in much healthier places in our lives. I am confident that he is now fit to be a good father to our daughter even though we are still and will stay separated. Is there a way we can have his rights reinstated or was the decision made by the state permanent and irreversible?

eah78 · Jul 15, 2009, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by eah78

I live in Texas and had my daughter's father's parental rights terminated 4 years ago. Now so much has changed and we are both in much healthier places in our lives. I am confident that he is now fit to be a good father to our daughter even though we are still and will stay separated. Is there a way we can have his rights reinstated or was the decision made by the state permanent and irreversible?

One more question... If his rights are reinstated will he be held responsible for back child support or will we just be able to move from this point going forward? I am not concerned so much with receiving back support I am just curious.

stinawords · Jul 15, 2009, 10:53 PM

Once a judge signs off on a termination of rights it is final. You may be able to get a lawyer to take your case to court and see if (because both you and the father) a judge would allow it but basically it is final. If he by some chance would be able to get rights again there would be no back support because it wasn't his kid to support. The two of you can always have a healthy relationship and he and the child can still get to know each other even though he isn't legally the father though.

ScottGem · Jul 16, 2009, 04:30 AM

I'm going to back up what stinawords said. In Texas a TPR is complete, final, and irrevocable. But even if you can't get it revoked, I'm not sure it matters. You can still allow him to see the child, that's your right.

I am curious, though, how you got a TPR in the first place. Generally courts are very reluctant to grant them. And your situation is one example of why.

One possibility that you might explore with a lawyer is having him adopt the child. That MAY get around the TPR.

eah78 · Jul 19, 2009, 02:30 AM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

I'm going to back up what stinawords said. In Texas a TPR is complete, final, and irrevocable. But even if you can't get it revoked, I'm not sure it matters. You can still allow him to see the child, that's your right.

I am curious, though, how you got a TPR in the first place. Generally courts are very reluctant to grant them. And your situation is one example of why.

One possibility that you might explore with a lawyer is having him adopt the child. That MAY get around the TPR.

I was just wondering. He did abandon me from the time I was pregnant, was not present for the birth and did not show for the hearing, though properly notified on multiple occasions which is why his rights were terminated. I am not really terribly concerned with getting them reinstated as I feel that is the consequence he must face for the decision to abandon us for the first 4 years. I want to have have a healthy relationship with her father and his longtime girlfriend, who I am to understand he plans to marry however, My fear is that he may decide that without legal rights he will just come and go as he pleases and hurt my daughter by doing so. He has done this a few I'm since she was born but every time the issue of financial support comes up he bails. I feel that it is only fair that if I allow a shared custody situation that he should follow a standard 20% monthly Child support payment. If there were legal papers that's how it would be done right? It's difficult because my daughter gets very excited to spend time with her father because she remembers him from when we tried this a year ago and then it failed. Am I just making a huge mistake all together? He's not a drug addict, he has a stable job and place to live and is in a healthy relationship... It's hard for me to just say no when he has changed so much. Thanks for your advice.

ScottGem · Jul 19, 2009, 04:37 AM

I repeat, in Texas a TPR is complete, final, and irrevocable. Note the emphasis on complete. Some states terminate only rights and not responsibilities, others, like Texas, do both. So you cannot get support from him, but you can prevent him him from having anything to do with your daughter.

If you allow contact with your daughter, that is your decision. There is no legal basis for him to have contact and if you allow it, you have no legal basis to even ask for support.

This is why TPRs are so hard to get. I'm really surprised the courts granted you one. Just not being there should not have been enough. You made a big mistake in pushing for it, because you ended any possibility of getting support from him.I suspect one of the reasons the court granted it was because you showed that you can handle it financially so it was unlikely you would turn to the state for assistance.

cdad · Jul 19, 2009, 05:49 AM

Originally Posted by eah78

I was just wondering. He did abandon me from the time I was pregnant, was not present for the birth and did not show for the hearing, though properly notified on multiple occasions which is why his rights were terminated. I am not really terribly concerned with getting them reinstated as I feel that is the consequence he must face for the decision to abandon us for the first 4 years. I want to have have a healthy relationship with her father and his longtime girlfriend, who I am to understand he plans to marry however, My fear is that he may decide that without legal rights he will just come and go as he pleases and hurt my daughter by doing so. He has done this a few im since she was born but every time the issue of financial support comes up he bails. I feel that it is only fair that if I allow a shared custody situation that he should follow a standard 20% monthly Child support payment. If there were legal papers that's how it would be done right? It's difficult because my daughter gets very excited to spend time with her father because she remembers him from when we tried this a year ago and then it failed. Am I just making a huge mistake all together? He's not a drug addict, he has a stable job and place to live and is in a healthy relationship... It's hard for me to just say no when he has changed so much. Thanks for your advice.

The sad part is that since you removed his rights you also removed her rights. She has no inheritance from him or anything. Hes not obligated in any way. If you tell him to send support so he can see his daughter or he can't see her that's illegal. Its called extortion and you could go to jail or prison for it. The bottom line is your in a mess and you just have to deal with it. Like Scott has said in many many posts that's why its not easy nor prefferable for a parents rights to be removed without someone else in the wings to take their place. You have no right to ask for support in any way.

Fr_Chuck · Jul 19, 2009, 06:51 AM

First there has to be more to what the father had to do. What you listed really does not seem like enough to end rights. Normally there has to be some serious danger to the child for this.

But if they were terminated in Texas there is nothing you can do, to get them back.

As the mother you can always just let him be part of the child's life

stinawords · Jul 19, 2009, 09:26 AM

To go along with what everyone else has said... you are not entitled to support in anyway. He is nor will he be the legal father and therefore has no responsibilities toward your daughter. If you want to let them have a relationship that is your chioce but you have to remember that he has no obligations toward your child because he is not her father legally. This is exactly the reason that TPR's are hard to get and I'm surprised that you were able to get one (Texas is about a twin of Indiana in family law) I don't know of a judge that would grant one unless you were remarried for at least a year to a man that wanted to adopt or he was a danger to the child.

s_cianci · Jul 19, 2009, 09:38 AM

I'm a little curious as to how you "had your daughter's father's rights terminated." Did you petition the court to do this? And they did, unequivocally, not even allowing him supervised visitation? Did he not contest or even respond to this motion? If so, then the circumstances at the time must have been pretty extreme. Anyhow, it would be up to him to petition the court to modify the existing order to allow him whatever type of visitation arrangement he wants to negotiate. Your being in agreement will certainly help things along. Ultimately it'll be up to the judge.

s_cianci · Jul 19, 2009, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by eah78

One more question... If his rights are reinstated will he be held responsible for back child support or will we just be able to move from this point going forward? I am not concerned so much with receiving back support I am just curious.

Having "lost his rights", if that's what indeed happened, did not relieve him of child support obligations if they were ever ordered and arrearages would have accrued. The judge will order a certain arrearage payment as well as current payments if they are not already in effect. You don't have the discretion to refuse support on behalf of your child even if you don't feel that you need or want it.

JudyKayTee · Jul 19, 2009, 12:22 PM

It's my understanding that when the Court terminates parental rights in Texas all child support obligations are also terminated. That's the reason Judges are so reluctant to grant the Order to terminate and why Courts try to discourage the non-custodial parent from filing for one.

ScottGem · Jul 19, 2009, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by s_cianci

Having "lost his rights", if that's what indeed happened, did not relieve him of child support obligations if they were ever ordered and arrearages would have accrued. The judge will order a certain arrearage payment as well as current payments if they are not already in effect. You don't have the discretion to refuse support on behalf of iyour child even if you don't feel that you need or want it.

This has been discussed before. Different states treat this differently. Some states terminate BOTH rights and responsibiliites. Other states only rights, leaving the parent still responsible for support. Texas terminates both. So, if the father did actually get a TPR from the courts, then he is no longer the legal father and its unlikely he every will have those rights restored.

timothy friel · Jul 19, 2009, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by eah78

I live in Texas and had my daughter's father's parental rights terminated 4 years ago. Now so much has changed and we are both in much healthier places in our lives. I am confident that he is now fit to be a good father to our daughter even though we are still and will stay separated. Is there a way we can have his rights reinstated or was the decision made by the state permanent and irreversible?

Yes you can have his rights reinstated, and its wondeful that you would reconcider, every child deservies the right to know the father if the conditions permit; what you and he need to do is file a petition to modify the custody order, and show cause to the situation and the court will (Always) except the mothers wishes after reviewing the evidence; as well; he will then be required to pay support and it seems that you are both willing to work things out (Parentaly) so write up a stipulated custody and support agreement and give him joint legal custody or joint physical custody as u see fit, and that agreement when filed with both of your signitures acts as a temporary order and agreement until a final order is made, you may never even have to go to court.

stinawords · Jul 19, 2009, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by timothy friel

yes you can have his rights reinstated, and its wondeful that you would reconcider, every child deservies the right to know the father if the conditions permit; what you and he need to do is file a petition to modify the custody order, and show cause to the situation and the court will (Always) except the mothers wishes after reviewing the evidence; as well; he will then be required to pay support and it seems that you are both willing to work things out (Parentaly) so write up a stipulated custody and support agreement and give him joint legal custody or joint physical custody as u see fit, and that agreement when filed with both of your signitures acts as a temporary order and agreement untill a final order is made, you may never even have to go to court.

It isn't just a matter of custody. It wasn't his custody that was removed it was his parental rights in full. So he is no longer the legal parent.

Synnen · Jul 19, 2009, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by timothy friel

yes you can have his rights reinstated, and its wondeful that you would reconcider, every child deservies the right to know the father if the conditions permit; what you and he need to do is file a petition to modify the custody order, and show cause to the situation and the court will (Always) except the mothers wishes after reviewing the evidence; as well; he will then be required to pay support and it seems that you are both willing to work things out (Parentaly) so write up a stipulated custody and support agreement and give him joint legal custody or joint physical custody as u see fit, and that agreement when filed with both of your signitures acts as a temporary order and agreement untill a final order is made, you may never even have to go to court.

What state is THIS law in?

Once parental rights are gone--they're gone for GOOD. We're not talking about CUSTODY, here. We're talking about parental rights.

If parental rights could be so easily reinstated, I know HUNDREDS of birthmothers who changed their mind after a year or two that would LOVE to know that they can just get them reinstated because the court will (always) accept the mother's wishes after reviewing the evidence.

ScottGem · Jul 20, 2009, 05:25 AM

Originally Posted by timothy friel

yes you can have his rights reinstated, and its wondeful that you would reconcider, every child deservies the right to know the father if the conditions permit; what you and he need to do is file a petition to modify the custody order, and show cause to the situation and the court will (Always) except the mothers wishes after reviewing the evidence; as well; he will then be required to pay support and it seems that you are both willing to work things out (Parentaly) so write up a stipulated custody and support agreement and give him joint legal custody or joint physical custody as u see fit, and that agreement when filed with both of your signitures acts as a temporary order and agreement untill a final order is made, you may never even have to go to court.

I really don't want to pile on, but your's was post #14 in this thread. ALL of the previous 13 posts agreed that, in Texas where the OP is, A TPR is final and irrevocable.

So please cite any rule of law in any state, that allows the revocation of a TPR even if the other parent agrees to it.

eah78 · Dec 10, 2010, 06:47 AM

Wow... I am glad to have received so many responses. It's been quite some time since I posted this thread. Update. When I filed to have his rights terminated I did it with very good reason. I was not easy and took lots of money and time in court. I never wanted or needed his child support has he goes on and off unemployment constantly. I will say that I am glad I never had his rights reinstated. People generally don't change. It's sad that her father is such a douche bag (and that's putting it kindly). He would leave her waiting for him for hours , days, weeks, no phone call, no show... She's better off with the consistency I provide her as a single parent than with the inconsistency of trying to involve him. I now understand why right in TEXAS are NOT reinstated once they are removed.

eah78 · Dec 10, 2010, 06:52 AM

Yes, I filed a petition with the court. He was served 3 times of what I was filing for. The state then provided an attorney that looked in to my finances and came to my home to see the conditions in which my daughter and I lived...

eah78 · Dec 10, 2010, 06:54 AM

After all that was done (which took about 9 months and over 2000.00 in legal fees) I went to court. He didn't show. He didn't fight for her at all. I am a rare case I know, however I am very happy with the decision I made.