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beckychurcher · Jun 22, 2009, 11:27 AM

I need some help in getting my mind clear, we have been married 20 yrs, 3 kids and have been happy. Around 18 months ago I started to suspect something was up, things like hiding mobile phone from me obsessively, occasionally not coming home at night without any real explanation except that he was playing cards with friends, he works shifts but started staying out really late on numerous times. I know because he told me that a female single co worker are best friends, and he spends time with her and other co workers drinking and socialising. I had him followed because I didn't believe a lot of the crap when I challenged him. He said nothing in it, he loves me, she is just a friend etc etc. I have met her and she has told me she thinks he is wonderful, clever, intelligent kind caring etc etc.. Well I have photo's of them arm in arm, running holding hands getting a taxi together, when he should have been home, and apparently they got excited, giggling like teenagers together, when the co worker left them to be alone, he says she was drunk and falling over so he had to hold her up! Now I have confronted him so many times and he still says it is nothing, and agrees that he acted inappropriately. He has started to come home earlier, but I can't trust him, feel very betrayed, he has a work mobile and I have asked him to get me copies of the bills, which so far he is refusing to do, another excuse! He said to my best friend (who knows) that he is thinking of actually sleeping with her because he is being blamed anyway, and/or that he will lie to me and say he has had a sexual relationship with her because I might be able to move on! What do I do?

ZoeMarie · Jun 22, 2009, 11:32 AM

I would start with marriage counseling. Not that you're wrong, but the accusations will push him farther away. If you want to save this marriage one or both of you will need to talk to a counselor.

jmooney527 · Jun 22, 2009, 01:10 PM

Usually what your gut is telling you is correct... USUALLY. I'm not sure he is ready for marriage counseling because if he's lying to you, he'll most likely lie to the marriage counselor also. The fact that he refuses to give copies of his work cell phone bill is a little alarming... if he had nothing to hide then he would gladly give them up (especially to prove you wrong).

I agree that badgering him isn't going to get you anywhere. There have been signs that something is up... it's obvious if you're married to someone for 20 years you can pick up on the slightest change in behavior. Unfortunately I can't give you some clear advice on this... only you will know what the right thing to do is.

You can approach him one last time, be calm and clear. Say you've been married for 20 years and you've noticed a great change in behavior on his end. You know that it isn't you and you wanted to give him an opportunity to voice any concerns/actions/incidents that you might not be aware of.

If he keeps up the behavior, get the proof you need to clear your mind. If you really think he's cheating... then chances are he probably is :(

I apologize if I can't give you any better advice than this... for your sake and your family's sake I hope your gut feeling is wrong... best of luck to you.

liz28 · Jun 22, 2009, 02:13 PM

You already knows this female co-worker of his likes him and he knows it to. Drinking under these circumstances is wrong because anything can or could have happen and the blame will place on the alcohol.

To be honest giving you a print out of his work cellphone bill isn't going solve anything. He can easily lie and say any communication to her via the work phone was work related. Also, if it is the company phone how do you expect him to do such a thing if the company isn't his?

His actions aren't doing anything to ease what your feeling. If he is getting defensive then something is up. And since the two of you been married for 20 years you should know when he is up to no good especially if you had no insecurities in the past. Sadly, I don't think he would ever admit to doing wrong.

Also, how much do you trust this best friend that is telling you stuff? When you said, "you had him followed", was it by a PI?

artlady · Jun 22, 2009, 02:27 PM

The evidence that you have seems to point in the direction that he is indeed being unfaithful.That is just my gut feeling.
What I find equally disturbing is his statement to your friend.

He said to my best friend (who knows) that he is thinking of actually sleeping with her because he is being blamed anyway, and/or that he will lie to me and say he has had a sexual relationship with her because I might be able to move on! What do I do?

Why would your husband want you to move on? That makes no sense to me unless he is willing to give up your marriage for this woman.
Unless he meant that you could both begin anew with a clean slate,if he confessed.

I think you need to decide what you can and can not forgive.Can you repair the damaged trust?

You need to have a serious discussion and tell him that you need the truth in order to move on.If he is still denying it than you need to get positive proof that something was or is happening between them.

You can't begin the process of forgiveness and understanding why this happened until you have all the facts.

I wish you the best!

beckychurcher · Jun 22, 2009, 02:54 PM

I have re read my question, I am sorry if its not that clear.. but he told my best friend ( who I have told what is happening) that he is thinking of sleeping with this woman as I am blaming him anyway, and he also said to me that he is thinking of lying to me and say he has had an affair with her because that way I should be able to get over it. Either way why would he say that, it just does not make any sense to me. And yes it was a PI who followed him, and in his opinion something was definatley going on. Apparently they were in a pub with a group of co-workers and they all left to catch a train home, my husband and her were walking behind the other group untouching (and she wasn't falling over drunk then) and as soon as the others left them alone they turned to each other and put arms around one another, laughing and giggling. The PI lost them as they got into a taxi. That night he lied about the time he came home, he said around 2am, but I was still up, then he said 3am, my son came home then and he wasn't in.. so it was after 3am, he still hasn't told me exactly. I want to see the phone bills so I can assess when he had contact with her and what times, day, night etc and for how long. I need him to prove to me he is not having an affair and he doesn't want to help prove it.. he says that I should just believe him. I know he has lent her money, been a shoulder to cry on in the past, whatever has happened he has chosen to spend more time with her than at home with his family. He is her boss.

liz28 · Jun 22, 2009, 03:09 PM

Yes, your husband is up to no good and your never going get the truth out of him.

MsMewiththat · Jun 22, 2009, 03:18 PM

OK, this is a very inappropriate boss-worker relationship. Loaning money, drinking, touching etc. Not professional at minimum.
Secondly anytime a man/woman puts more time and attention into someone else in my book it is cheating. Whether physical or emotional it's cheating.
The one thing that would make me step through this slowly would be if I was being irrational. It doesn't appear that you are, however I don't know you. Chatting with your friend and saying the things he said very well could have been a guilty man testing the waters or a frustrated man saying "what do I have to do to prove myself to her, she should trust me?"
I don't live with this man, so I can't answer these questions for you, what I can do is tell you what I would think if it were me in your shoes. I would assume that he is cheating.
I agree with Liz when she says that the phone bills may be dificult to obtain given that this is a bill generated and sent most likely to the company.
I will say that the simple fact that you have had to go to the extreme that you have, you can answer this question without our help. It smells like a rat, loks like a rat 9 out of 10 it is a rat. Go with your first mind on this. I tend to say never second guess yourself when it comes to these matters. Don't let him get away with blaming it on the "AH AH AH AH AH Alcohol"

sully123 · Jun 22, 2009, 03:24 PM

I am sorry for you! Very rarely do they ever change, once they have cheated they will continue to do so. I have a friend that just went through the same thing last year, 36 yrs her marriage lasted, said he would never do it again. Went to counseling and everything. Five times till she got smart and left him. He asked for the divorce last year. She gave it to him. Now today she met a wonderful person, who is honest and caring and loves her to pieces. She said he did her a favor. They think the grass is greener on the other side, till they have no one, when the marriage is over. Then its too late, and he is sorry today, but she wants no part of him.. good luck.. and don't look back, you deserve better. You will never trust him again.

artlady · Jun 22, 2009, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by beckychurcher

I have re read my question, I am sorry if its not that clear..but he told my best friend ( who I have told what is happening) that he is thinking of sleeping with this woman as I am blaming him anyway, and he also said to me that he is thinking of lying to me and say he has had an affair with her because that way I should be able to get over it. Either way why would he say that, it just does not make any sense to me. And yes it was a PI who followed him, and in his opinion something was definatley going on. Apparently they were in a pub with a group of co-workers and they all left to catch a train home, my husband and her were walking behind the other group untouching (and she wasn't falling over drunk then) and as soon as the others left them alone they turned to each other and put arms around one another, laughing and giggling. The PI lost them as they got into a taxi. That night he lied about the time he came home, he said around 2am, but I was still up, then he said 3am, my son came home then and he wasn't in..so it was after 3am, he still hasn't told me exactly. I want to see the phone bills so I can assess when he had contact with her and what times, day, night etc and for how long. I need him to prove to me he is not having an affair and he doesn't want to help prove it..he says that I should just believe him. I know he has lent her money, been a shoulder to cry on in the past, whatever has happened he has chosen to spend more time with her than at home with his family. He is her boss.

Even if they have not progressed to actually having an affair,they have both crossed lines that should not be crossed and are at least in an emotional affair.Equally as dangerous as a physical affair.
It does not sound as if he is going to admit anything to you so the most you can do at this point is continue to have him monitored.
From this vantage point his behavior does indeed look very suspicious.

talaniman · Jun 22, 2009, 03:43 PM

Let the PI earn his money, and have evidence for a confrontation.

but he told my best friend ( who I have told what is happening) that he is thinking of sleeping with this woman as I am blaming him anyway, and he also said to me that he is thinking of lying to me and say he has had an affair with her because that way I should be able to get over it

I have heard this excuse before, and it comes from being blamed for doing something he hasn't done. So if something does happens, guess where the blame is??

This leads me to believe this is an old story between you, about his boss.

she is just a friend etc etc. I have met her and she has told me she thinks he is wonderful, clever, intelligent kind caring etc etc

Don't know what the etc is, but a denial of anything going on is something to consider, but I doubt you would believe her any way.

Back away, and let the PI work, speaking of work, do you? Just curious.

Personally, I smell smoke, and you need facts not feelings.

bizygurl · Jun 22, 2009, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by beckychurcher

I have re read my question, I am sorry if its not that clear..but he told my best friend ( who I have told what is happening) that he is thinking of sleeping with this woman as I am blaming him anyway, and he also said to me that he is thinking of lying to me and say he has had an affair with her because that way I should be able to get over it. Either way why would he say that, it just does not make any sense to me. And yes it was a PI who followed him, and in his opinion something was definatley going on. Apparently they were in a pub with a group of co-workers and they all left to catch a train home, my husband and her were walking behind the other group untouching (and she wasn't falling over drunk then) and as soon as the others left them alone they turned to each other and put arms around one another, laughing and giggling. The PI lost them as they got into a taxi. That night he lied about the time he came home, he said around 2am, but I was still up, then he said 3am, my son came home then and he wasn't in..so it was after 3am, he still hasn't told me exactly. I want to see the phone bills so I can assess when he had contact with her and what times, day, night etc and for how long. I need him to prove to me he is not having an affair and he doesn't want to help prove it..he says that I should just believe him. I know he has lent her money, been a shoulder to cry on in the past, whatever has happened he has chosen to spend more time with her than at home with his family. He is her boss.

Now even though you don't have any "hardcore" evidence that he is cheating on you. His behavior is not appropriate of a married man. I don't care how good of friends you are with someone of the opposite sex, you don't go out drinking on a numerous occasions with a co-worker, stay out into the wee hours of the morning, get drunk with them. You are absolutely right, he needs to be spending time with you, his wife. Not some girl he knows from work. Why not take you to these "night out" excursions once in awhile? If he flat out refuses, then that may show you that something is up.

Unfortunately you are going to have to trust your gut instinct. The fact that he knows that hanging out with her is bothering you and he hasn't made any attempt to ease your feeling about it or stop all together is troublesome. . What if it was switched... how would he feel if you were hanging out with a male co-worker all the time, giving him money etc.. Im sure he would hate it.

You guys really need to sit down and talk about this. Don't come out accusing him.and don't demand to see phone bills. Talk to him and tell him that you are really concerned about where this relationship with this woman is going. Tell him your not comfortable with the drinking, and staying out late together. Tell him your very scared for your marriage, If he doesn't listen or just becomes angry and doesn't want to hear you. Then I guess my gut instinct is that he would be carrying on something with her. Because not to take his wife's feelings into account can say volumes. I hope things work out for the best. Good luck.

dincher · Jun 22, 2009, 05:42 PM

I feel for you, honestly. I hate to tell you what happened to me, because it may not happen to you, but my ex husband had an emotional affair with his coworker - she was older than he was. She used to "look out" for him as he would describe when I asked.

My alarm went off when I went to the office christmas party, and when I put my hand on my husband's leg, that woman gave him a dirty look and I wondered why would she be jealous?? Later on, she offered to drive us home and she had my husband sit in the front seat with her, while I sat in the back. That made me angry, as I saw her flirt with him in a touchy way while I sat in the backseat.

I later found out that he was having an affair - by his cellphone -I just took it one night while he was sleeping and read everything. (Maybe you should do this? )

Anyway, I came home one day two weeks after that, and he and his stuff were gone. Two weeks later, I got divorced papers served to me.

There is something definitely going on with your husband. I hate that you have to go through this, as this makes one grow old overnight. These kinds of situations are delicate - you can't accuse, because if you do, they'll get defensive and see you as the "bad guy" and you can't NOT say anything or else you'll lose your mind.

beckychurcher · Jun 23, 2009, 04:31 AM

Ahh have already done that, there is always contact from her although nothing incriminating, things like where they were going to meet for a drink etc, he now deletes all from caller ID as he knows my feelings. He has eventually understood how innapropriate he has behaved although extremely reluctantly. He now says that I have changed (how dare I) and he doesn't like it, he turns it all around to the way he is feeling all the time. I challenged him to take a lie detector, he went mad...

beckychurcher · Jun 23, 2009, 05:02 AM

Also to answer a few of your questions, yes I do work, I am not generally considered to be an irrational, silly person. I am not even the jealous type, until now that is. I have just been a normal, loving supportive wife, working, running the home and bringing up the kids. He has a very stressfull job that does involve long hours (but not as long as he led me to believe). The woman in question is a very very attractive 31 yr old, single. He says she is like one of the lads as they work in a very male dominated environment (believe me, she does not look like one of the lads). He has told me many times how she is his best friend, then he clarifies it by saying "at work". He also says he is her mentor, in otherwords he has taught her all she knows work wise and she is now considered to be very good at her job because of him, he said she values him & he doesn't think I do. Great!. he also said that he goes out with her because of the late hours he arrives home, me and the children are not around for him... that made me wild... The list goes on on on. I first became suspicious a while back when he told me he had lent her money, very inapropriate as he is her boss after all. She did leave the country for 6 months, then tried to convince him to join her abroad to work? Alarm bells were really ringing then. I have met her 2/3 times and since accusing him of having an affair have spoken to her but of course the stories matched up completely. The PI has tailed him for over a week, caught him out on that Saturday night. They are always in the pub together but because he his her boss they try to avoid each other, just little clances then getting more friendly towards the end of the evening. I think it is when opportunity knocks that they go off together after other colleagues have left them alone. PI advice is to leave it for a few weeks, as he knows I am onto him so he is being ultra careful. He just wants me to forget about it, he says it is ruining our marriage, upsetting him, he can't concentrate on anything, he has a funny feeling that I won't forget about it, makes you laugh really doesn't it? Oh another thing is the amount of money that he gets through, always cash so no paper trail. Says he is just crap with money.. and can't justify what he spends it on.

talaniman · Jun 23, 2009, 08:51 AM

PI advice is to leave it for a few weeks, as he knows I am onto him so he is being ultra careful

Do as he says, and get about your own normal life. Don't play victim, your not. You do have choices to make for yourself, and being aware of the need to have your personal business in order, is never a bad idea.