[Jesus4me]

Yes, Jesus is god-the Father.Isaiah 9:6 says that he is the everlasting father.Is this just because he has the same substance as the father, no.If it did, it would be funny how two members of the trinity have the same name, father.Malachi 2:10 states that we have one father.In John 14:9 Jesus said that he was the father.In John 12:44-45, Jesus said again that he was the father.if Jesus is not the father, then we run into many problems.Isaiah 63:16 says that the Lord is our Father.Ephesians 4:4-6 says that there is one Lord.Luke 2:11 says that there would be born a savior that day called christ the Lord.So if you look at all three of these verses, you will see that Jesus is the father.John 1:1 says thaty the word was with god.The meaning of word in the greek is logos.Which means a plan in one's mind.rEVELATIONS 13:8 SAYS THAT THE LAMB WAS SLAIN BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.WELL, HOW could this be he wasn't slain until the new testament.God had this plan in mind before he created man.he knew that man would sin which would separate our communion with him.so he planned on coming down himself in the flesh to save his people.there was no one worth to do it.We needed a sinless man to do it.That man was jesus christ.what about Genesis 1:26.Well, it doesn't say the father, it doesn't say the son, and it doesn't say the Holy Ghost.Jews say that he was communicating with the angels.Job 38:7 staes that the angels were present at creation.Well, I have to go, Ihope this helped you out.God bless.

[shygrneyzs]

Jesus said, "I and the Father are One". You can argue the Trinity until the last days. I used to be a Roman Catholic and during a period a time, a United Pentecostal, finally finding home in Assembly of God. I believe in the Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost and it is all God.

[Starman]

The Scriptures referred to show conclusively the personality of the Father, and a portion of the quotations presented, point to the fact that He is a separate personage, and entirely distinct in person from His Son Jesus Christ.


MRGANITE

I totally agree with you on this one. I would also like to commend you the skillful usage of scripture which is the foundation of Christian doctrine. Incidentally, the expression God the Father which is so often brandished about as if it were somewhere in the Bible is nowhere to be found within its pages. So I will assume that the expression began to be used only after the Trinitarian view became predominant within Christendom.

[Morganite]

Yes, Jesus is god-the Father.Isaiah 9:6 says that he is the everlasting father.Is this just because he has the same substance as the father, no.If it did, it would be funny how two members of the trinity have the same name, father.Malachi 2:10 states that we have one father.In John 14:9 Jesus said that he was the father.In John 12:44-45, Jesus said again that he was the father.if Jesus is not the father, then we run into many problems.Isaiah 63:16 says that the Lord is our Father.Ephesians 4:4-6 says that there is one Lord.Luke 2:11 says that there would be born a savior that day called christ the Lord.So if you look at all three of these verses, you will see that Jesus is the father.John 1:1 says thaty the word was with god.The meaning of word in the greek is logos.Which means a plan in one's mind.rEVELATIONS 13:8 SAYS THAT THE LAMB WAS SLAIN BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.WELL, HOW could this be he wasn't slain until the new testament.God had this plan in mind before he created man.he knew that man would sin which would seperate our communion with him.so he planned on coming down himself in the flesh to save his people.there was no one worth to do it.We needed a sinless man to do it.That man was jesus christ.what about Genesis 1:26.Well, it doesn't say the father, it doesn't say the son, and it doesn't say the Holy Ghost.Jews say that he was communicating with the angels.Job 38:7 staes that the angels were present at creation.Well, I have to go, Ihope this helped you out.God bless.

Isaiah 9:6

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


There is nothing in this verse indicative of any trinity.

The Jewish translation of verses 6 (Heb. 5), and 7 (Heb. 6), is:


Chapter 9

(6) 5 For a child has been born to us, A son has been given us. And authority has settled on his shoulders.

He has been named "The Mighty God is planning grace; The Eternal Father, a peaceable ruler" —

(7) 6 In token of abundant authority And of peace without limit Upon David's throne and kingdom, That it may be firmly established In justice and in equity Now and evermore.

The zeal of the Lord of Hosts Shall bring this to pass.


The Hebrew version provides an interesting reading, but there is absolutely no trinitarian content whether in the Christian rendition or in the Jewish one.



M:)RGANITE



.

[Morganite]

Jesus said, "I and the Father are One". You can argue the Trinity until the last days. I used to be a Roman Catholic and during a period a time, a United Pentecostal, finally finding home in Assembly of God. I believe in the Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost and it is all God.

Jesus also said, "My Father is greater than I," and speaking directly to the Father, he said, "Not my will, but thine be done." etc. etc.

In many other passages Jesus stressed the unity of purpose and intent that exists between himself and the Father, but at the same time made significant differentiation between himself and the Father.

"Why callest thou me good?" he asked the rich young man, adding, "There is no one good except One." Clearly, although he said he was from God, he did not claim to be his own Father.





M:)

[krystal22]

Jesus was God in the flesh. That is why the Bible calls this a mystery. He exists as three entities, yet is One.

[Morganite]

Jesus was God in the flesh. That is why the Bible calls this a mystery. He exists as three entities, yet is One.

Jesus was [IS] the Son of God, incarnate. The Bible does not promote, speak of, indicate, hint at, or otherwise support a trinitarian godhead.

Of course people believe otherwise, and that is their privilege, but they have to move outside the pages of the Bible to do so. That's all.

M:)

[DrJ]

Are we not all the Son of God incarnate? Didn't Jesus himself say that He is no different than you or I?

[Morganite]

Are we not all the Son of God incarnate? Didn't Jesus himself say that He is no different than you or I?

Do you have a reference for that?


M:)

[DrJ]

Are you saying that you don't?

Hmmm... I bet I can find it first

[Morganite]

Are you saying that you dont??

Hmmm... I bet I can find it first

Didn't Jesus himself say that He is no different than you or I?


Where is it? I cannot recall him saying anything like that. "I am no different from any other man, etc"

I look forward to you kindly pointing it out to me.


M:)



.

[Gods Child]

Ok, most christians in believe in the trinity, I on the other hand am far from believing in the trinity. Jesus is God according to Isaiah 9:6, 1 Timothy 3: 16.

Trinitarians say that God the Son manifested himself in flesh but this is not true. 1 Cor 8: 6 claims the Father is the ONLY ONE God... and God (Father) manifested himself in flesh which is Jesus Christ according to 1 Timothy 3:16 and in Jesus dwells the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Jesus is God but not by the so called God the Son manifesting himself in Jesus. The Father is the Only God, God is the Father.

Many have misinterpreted the bible with their own opinion instead of letting the Holy Spirit give them understanding. Jesus revealed that he was the Father to the apostles in
John 14: 9-10, he told the apostles that he was the Father because they had been with Jesus along time and should have figured it out but they didn't until Philip asked Jesus to "Shew us the Father" Jesus told him "have i not been with you so long Philip? Jesus said "from now on you shall know that the Father is IN me. Some trinitarians ask "If he is the Father, then why didn't he just say so plainly"? The same reason why he never told the public he was "God". Jesus never put himself out as if he knew and could do anything (Philippians 2: 6-8).

John 8: 19, 24-25, 27 ~ The said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also. 24... for if ye believe not that I am HE, ye shall die in your sins. 25 Then they said unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus said to them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning. 27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.

Jesus said "when you see me, you see the Father"

[Gods Child]

When it comes down to the resurrection of Jesus Christ, the question is "Who rose Jesus?"

Was it the Father?

Was it the Spirit?

Was it Jesus himself?

Lets search the scriptures:

John 2: 19, 21 ~Jesus said, Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.

21 ... he spoke of the temple of his body.

John 10: 18 ~ No man taketh it from me, but i lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down and i have power to take it up again. This commandment have i recieved from my father.

IN THESE TWO VERSES JESUS IS SAID TO HAVE ROSE HIMSELF.

Gal 1:1 ~ ...but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;

Rom 8: 11 ~ ...that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father

IN THESE TWO VERSES THE FATHER IS SAID TO HAVE ROSE JESUS.

Rom 8: 11 ~ But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead...

IN THIS VERSE THE SPIRIT IS SAID TO HAVE ROSE JESUS.

Now we see that God the Father, Jesus, and The Holy Spirit rose Jesus.
If these three are distinct, why would they need to all raise him at the same time, that seems unnessecary, WE CAN CLEARLY SEE THAT JESUS HAS A LAW FROM THE FATHER TO RAISE HIMSELF BUT YET THE FATHER ROSE HIM BUT YET THE SPIRIT ROSE HIM. This would be confusing to trinitarians but to oneness, this is simple.

The Father and Holy Ghost are the same person. The Holy Spirit gives life, the holy spirit proceeds from the Father. The Holy Ghost is the God in action, notice that in every instance of the Holy Ghost, he is always doing something.

JESUS IS ALSO THE HOLY GHOST

John 14: 17-26 ~ Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot recieve, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19 Yet in a little while
Verse 26 goes on to say the comforter is the Holy Ghost and the Father will send him.

Notice that the Holy Spirit has many nick names (Spirit of God, Spirit of truth, Spirit of Christ etc. The bible also says that there is only ONE spirit, if the Father has a Spirit and Jesus has the Spirit of Christ and they are three distinct person as trinitarians claim then their would be more than one Spirit, we would have more 3 spirits in us but theirs only ONE. Jesus said in the above verses that " i will come to you yet in a little while" and he also said "the spirit of truth is with the you", now take heed to this "I will not leave you comfortless, i will come to you". The apostles were in comfort because they had the Spirit of Truth but the Spirit was soon to leave this is why Jesus said I will not leave you comfortless, the Holy Spirit is Jesus come back to comfort us. The Holy Ghost was not considered a person of the Trinity until it was decided upon hundreds of years after the death of Christ

If the Trinity is True and God the Son is equal to God the Father then why does God the Father speaks through Jesus rather than God the Son speak? Isn't God the Son all powerful? Isn't God the Son all knowing? Isn't God the Son no less than the Father? God the Son doesn't speak because there is no God the Son, Jesus is the I AM because the FATHER IS SPEAKING and in Jesus (flesh) not a God the son. Doesn't Jesus say only the Father speaks? Does Jesus ever say God the Son speaks through the flesh of Jesus? No

Trinitarians admit that the concept of their belief is hard to comprehend and is a mystery. The bible never says God is a mystery, it only says "The wisdom of God is a mystery" the assets of God is a mystery not the nature of him. The Council of Nicea has messed up everything, its funny how constantine already believe he was God incarnated and was the leader of the council, he also believed in pagan gods. Turtillian and the rest of the Fathers of the Trinity all over a period was never established on the concept of the trinity until many years later others have put the final touches on the belief. Some of the Fathers of the Trinity took their aspects from pagan philosophers and tried to fix it in with the christian belief, the final result was God was three in one which makes no since anyway.

We all need to continue to study the word and study history and not be deceived by philosophy and vain deceit. God bless

[Morganite]

Are you saying that you dont??

Hmmm... I bet I can find it first

Have you found it yet, Dr Jizzle? It still eludes me.


M:).

[Retrotia]

Ok, most christians in believe in the trinity, i on the other hand am far from believing in the trinity. Jesus is God according to Isaiah 9:6, 1 Timothy 3: 16.

How can a Christian not be a Trinitarian? Do you not believe in the Deity of Christ?http://http://www.neirr.org/believeint
rinity.htm

[Morganite]

How can a Christian not be a Trinitarian? Do you not believe in the Deity of Christ?http://http://www.neirr.org/believeint
rinity.htm

The Trinity and Trinitarian formulations are not found in the Bible except by the expediency [?}of special pleading and reading back, both of which are unreliable. It comes down to a choice of believing either the creeds or believing the Bible. Which of these is the most reliable?

Being a Christian has nothing to do with the trinity, as the person you responded to indicated clearly that he/she was a Christian but not a trinitarian. It is extremely unlikely that any early Christian even heard of the trinity. God is not, says the scripture, the author of confusion. What is more confusing than the doctrine of the trinity?

Being a Christian has to do with believing that Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah, the Redeemer and Saviour of mankind. The trinity is a late-comer into the Christian fold compared with the clear teaching of the New Testament writers and the testimony of Jesus himself that he is the Son of God, not the Father, and that he submits his will to the will of the Father when his will differs from that of his Father.

[Retrotia]

Morganite,
Yes, I can see it is one's choice to believe in the Trinity or not. But if some wanted to claim otherwise, why do they so with established doctrine? Did you read all of my link? I never heard of this Unitarian belief from a Christian. What about the authority Jesus has when you are JUDGED? What about John 5: 19-30?

All these other beliefs do is divide us on doctrine. I know the basic elements for being a Christian, like you said. I just hate to see something like "unitarian" mentioned at all!
Just as there came to be so many denominations of Christianity- God never gave approval to dividing his church. The church is supposed to be one body(Eph.4:3-6) with Christ as its Head (Coloss.1:18)

If you just stick to answering your original question from Scripture- the answer is no. But to go on and say that Jesus was not God in the flesh- oh, I could just pinch someone. La, who do you think is inside you? HINT: the same Spirit!
I don't like the watered-down version of the PEACE & POWER. Amen.

[Gods Child]

Morganite,
Yes, I can see it is one's choice to believe in the Trinity or not. But if some wanted to claim otherwise, why do they so with established doctrine? Did you read all of my link? I never heard of this Unitarian belief from a Christian. What about the authority Jesus has when you are JUDGED? What about John 5: 19-30?

All these other beliefs do is divide us on doctrine. I know the basic elements for being a Christian, like you said. I just hate to see something like "unitarian" mentioned at all!
Just as there came to be so many denominations of Christianity- God never gave approval to dividing his church. The church is supposed to be one body(Eph.4:3-6) with Christ as its Head (Coloss.1:18)

If you just stick to answering your original question from Scripture- the answer is no. But to go on and say that Jesus was not God in the flesh- oh, I could just pinch someone. La, who do you think is inside you? HINT: the same Spirit!
I don't like the watered-down version of the PEACE & POWER. Amen.

I wrote a whole bunch but it got erased because I went back and then forward and it was erased but I will tell you this. Everyone who is a christian does not believe in a trinity, We believe Jesus is God but not by second person. We believe The Father is the only God (1 Cor 8: 6) who manifested himself in flesh which is Jesus (1 Tim 3: 16) and in Jesus dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily (Colo 2: 9). There is much to tell you and I would love you to ask me some questions. I am a 20 year old Apostolic man and my name is Troy, I am young but God has blessed me with the gift of knowledge and I have studied hard on both Trinity and Oneness. Please ask me some questions. I will leave you some sites to check out in my next post. God bless

[Gods Child]

Morganite,
Yes, I can see it is one's choice to believe in the Trinity or not. But if some wanted to claim otherwise, why do they so with established doctrine? Did you read all of my link? I never heard of this Unitarian belief from a Christian. What about the authority Jesus has when you are JUDGED? What about John 5: 19-30?

All these other beliefs do is divide us on doctrine. I know the basic elements for being a Christian, like you said. I just hate to see something like "unitarian" mentioned at all!
Just as there came to be so many denominations of Christianity- God never gave approval to dividing his church. The church is supposed to be one body(Eph.4:3-6) with Christ as its Head (Coloss.1:18)

If you just stick to answering your original question from Scripture- the answer is no. But to go on and say that Jesus was not God in the flesh- oh, I could just pinch someone. La, who do you think is inside you? HINT: the same Spirit!
I don't like the watered-down version of the PEACE & POWER. Amen.

PLEASE CHECK OUT THIS SITE:
226 Questions - Table of Contents

I will talk to you later. God bless

[Morganite]

When it comes down to the ressurection of Jesus Christ, the question is "Who rose Jesus?"

Was it the Father?

Was it the Spirit?

Was it Jesus himself?

Lets search the scriptures:

John 2: 19, 21 ~Jesus said, Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.

21 ... he spoke of the temple of his body.

John 10: 18 ~ No man taketh it from me, but i lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down and i have power to take it up again. This commandment have i recieved from my father.

IN THESE TWO VERSES JESUS IS SAID TO HAVE ROSE HIMSELF.

Gal 1:1 ~ ...but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;

Rom 8: 11 ~ ...that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father

IN THESE TWO VERSES THE FATHER IS SAID TO HAVE ROSE JESUS.

Rom 8: 11 ~ But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead...

IN THIS VERSE THE SPIRIT IS SAID TO HAVE ROSE JESUS.

Now we see that God the Father, Jesus, and The Holy Spirit rose Jesus.
If these three are distinct, why would they need to all raise him at the same time, that seems unnessecary, WE CAN CLEARLY SEE THAT JESUS HAS A LAW FROM THE FATHER TO RAISE HIMSELF BUT YET THE FATHER ROSE HIM BUT YET THE SPIRIT ROSE HIM. This would be confusing to trinitarians but to oneness, this is simple.

The Father and Holy Ghost are the same person. the Holy Spirit gives life, the holy spirit proceeds from the Father. The Holy Ghost is the God in action, notice that in every instance of the Holy Ghost, he is always doing somthing.

JESUS IS ALSO THE HOLY GHOST

John 14: 17-26 ~ Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot recieve, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19 Yet in a little while
verse 26 goes on to say the comforter is the Holy Ghost and the Father will send him.

Notice that the Holy Spirit has many nick names (Spirit of God, Spirit of truth, Spirit of Christ etc. The bible also says that their is only ONE spirit, if the Father has a Spirit and Jesus has the Spirit of Christ and they are three distinct person as trinitarians claim then their would be more than one Spirit, we would have more 3 spirits in us but theirs only ONE. Jesus said in the above verses that " i will come to you yet in a little while" and he also said "the spirit of truth is with the you", now take heed to this "I will not leave you comfortless, i will come to you". The apostles were in comfort because they had the Spirit of Truth but the Spirit was soon to leave this is why Jesus said I will not leave you comfortless, the Holy Spirit is Jesus come back to comfort us. The Holy Ghost was not considered a person of the Trinity until it was decided upon hundreds of years after the death of Christ

If the Trinity is True and God the Son is equal to God the Father then why does God the Father speaks through Jesus rather than God the Son speak? Isn't God the Son all powerful? Isn't God the Son all knowing? Isn't God the Son no less than the Father? God the Son doesn't speak because their is no God the Son, Jesus is the I AM because the FATHER IS SPEAKING and in Jesus (flesh) not a God the son. Doesn't Jesus say only the Father speaks? Does Jesus ever say God the Son speaks through the flesh of Jesus? No

Trinitarians admit that the concept of their belief is hard to comprehend and is a mystery. The bible never says God is a mystery, it only says "The wisdom of God is a mystery" the assets of God is a mystery not the nature of him. The Council of Nicea has messed up everything, its funny how constantine already believe he was God incarnated and was the leader of the council, he also believed in pagan gods. Turtillian and the rest of the Fathers of the Trinity all over a period of time was never established on the concept of the trinity until many years later others have put the final touches on the belief. Some of the Fathers of the Trinity took their aspects from pagan philosophers and tryed to fix it in with the christian belief, the final result was God was three in one which makes no since anyway.

We all need to continue to study the word and study history and not be decieved by philosophy and vain deceit. God bless

Who rose Jesus - that is, who was the engineer of his resurrection - is of less importance than the question of whether Jesus literally rose from the dead and whether others will also rise from the dead to everlasting life.

Who does what in these matter seems to be of much less significance than whether these events have taken and will take place for all mankind at a future time.

Your thoughts on the Trinity or NOT the Trinity are interesting but, and please forgive me for saying this, they appear a little confused and confusing. Although I am not a believer in the Trinity of the creeds, I find your arguments against the credal Trinity less than convincing. Principally because it appears that you interpret your prooftexts in peculiar ways.

M:)RGANITE