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dtvonfossen · Sep 16, 2006, 04:57 PM

Well, I was not raised in church, My in-laws quilted me into it when I was about 21. I believed every thing I heard for years, I tried to "prove" it. I felt like I had to see evidence of the spirit. I rasied two kids in church until they were old even to make up their own mind. THEN I started looking with new eyes. I saw people. Just plain people who didn't know what else to do. They closed their eyes to what was going on in the choir loft or in the pastors office. They didn't bother to veryify in the "book" what they were hearing in the pulpit. I figure no one really knows. That's OK with me. In the last two years I have lost my Dad, my Mom, and my Brother, and my ex-husband. They all believe different things. Right now I figure they know more then I do. I don't judge and ask the same from others and that's about it. I feel more power and order in nature then I ever have in church, maybe that makes me a pagan. So be it!! Pagans were around long before christians or jews or muslums... any pagans out there who are not too scared to admit it?? Debbie

J_9 · Sep 16, 2006, 05:43 PM

Well, what about Paganistic rituals?

Many of the items that we use during religious ceremonies/traditions are paganistic in nature.

Take the wreath for instance, it represents the circle of life. As the seasons change the leaves turn, fall off the trees, then spring revives them. It is a circle.

Many things that are used were taken from paganistic beliefs.

dtvonfossen · Sep 16, 2006, 07:26 PM

My point exactly!:D

Fr_Chuck · Sep 17, 2006, 07:12 AM

Sadly one does not prove any religion or church, Faith is required no matter what belief or religion you wish to follow. And I am sorry if a few people who were not following teachings that you believed have caused you to lose this faith, but honestly if you are judging what you should believe by what you see in some others, you will be disappointed in anything you do. You will have to find the faith for yourself and believe in it despite what others say or you see.

Next if you wish to find doubt in Christianity the devil will be glad to show you lots of it, but if you want to know the power and feel the spirit then you have to let it be part of you and accept it without doubts.
I have seen God's hand work so much in other people, and many miricles of all sorts. And yes nature shows you the real power of God, the power is not in the nature itself, but merely the sign of the power of God who created all things.

dtvonfossen · Sep 17, 2006, 08:10 AM

Well Chuck, I did all of that for 20 years. That's how long I was in the church. I use to tell people almost word for word everything you wrote. I am a much happier person now. LIke I said, I don't judge. I have friends and relative who still go to church and I would never take that away from them or put them down for that. The church helped me through a lot of very bad times, but you "can't unknow what ya know" no matter how hard you try.
Here's an example of just one of the reason I don't go to church anymore. When I was in college I met a girl from India, She was Hindu. This was a Christian college and she had to take old and new testment in order to pass. I helped her with her classes and she shared her faith with me. I could see plainly that her faith meant as much to her as anyone's meant to them. I tried to share this with my Sunday School class (I was teaching the young adults at the time) The things they had to say about her almost made me cry right there. It wasn't long before I quit teaching. Then later I just gave it up all together. We all came from the same place, wherever that is. No one has a corner on the gates to heaven. At least, that's how I feel.

RickJ · Sep 17, 2006, 09:32 AM

Typically, "paganism" is essentially atheism. Regardless of your experiences with weak people of "faith", are you really prepared to deny a Creator altogether?

Cassie · Sep 17, 2006, 09:37 AM

Are you saying you do not believe in God? Or are you saying you do not believe in church?

dtvonfossen · Sep 17, 2006, 09:37 AM

If you will re-read what I wrote you will see that I never said that.

Cassie · Sep 17, 2006, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by dtvonfossen

If you will re-read what I wrote you will see that I never said that.

I apoloigize, from reading your post I got that you were disappointed in church. You believe in church. You believe in God. Great, what is the problem?

dtvonfossen · Sep 17, 2006, 12:20 PM

No problem. I didn't mean to offend. I was just expressing my thoughts. I didn't mean to stir anyone up. I only found this site to ask a question about my dog, then I found all this other stuff. I guess I'll just leave you all alone now. I got my answer and I thank you very much for it.
Bye now,
Debbie