[XM8]

Hi,

First let me apologize if this is too long or annoying, I just really need help. To sum this up my parents have been married for about 20 years now. I am their oldest child (male, 16) and there's my little sister (14).

My dad went on holiday for about 2 weeks and came back 2 days ago. He told me now that I have the choice to either stay with my mother or with him because he's intent on getting a divorce and that's it.

He says it just can't work out anymore between them and this is it. However from September to December my parents were at war about divorcing.

My dad got my mum kicked out the house by the police, he wanted to divorce her and she didn't want to. My dad was going to marry some other women but in the end he realised she was a crazy b*tch and my parents reconciled in December.

Anyway you're probably thinking my dad is a b*stard or something but that's not true and well what happened is done and it just happened so never mind.

My mum thinks that he is trying to get a divorce for another woman (who is presumably in England).

The thing is we live in Austria right now and if I chose to stay with my father I can go and live in England (where my dad's from). I'm english but I never had the chance to live there before.

If I chose to stay with my mother I have to go and live with her in Syria (where she's from).

I'm torn between the two and don't know what to do.


Can anyone help me? This isn't a funny subject and I need help from experts who know what they're talking about.

Thanks,

-Xm8

[bugaboo19]

As the youngest of a bunch of 5 kids and having to walk in on my dad cheating on my mom wasn't easy and it didn't make it easier to find out they are getting a divorce. Yes its hard but for sum they just face it unlike for me I was given a decision also but I took a stand don't let them make you choose tell them strait up I'm not going to decide one parent over another you two made this decision so you two can fix it and if you think separation is really the answer then your only thinking of yourselves not others around you or how it would effect your kids so the best thing to do is just keep an open mind about it don't be afraid to talk about it to your parents and also its good to keep a good friend,brother,or even a sister to stick by you and talk to.. it helps keep your mind off things

[Ana52408]

I say don't decide. Don't let them make you decide. They are both your parents and have been there for you since you were born, the best thing to do is don't get stressed or go into depression because you can't decide. Just don't choose at all!

[artlady]

I would say that you need to make a pro and con list. One list with Moms name and one with Dads.

Understand what the culture is like in both places,and what be more appealing to you personally.

Look at all of your options.Language barriers ,if any,making new friends.Are you able to communicate more easily with one parent.

I would also suggest that you could do a joint custody,if your parents are agreeable.Six months with one and six with the other.

It's a tough decision and I wish you the best !

[XM8]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

My mother thinks that I shouldn't decide and I should make my dad understand that I shouldn't have to go anywhere or decide anything.

Damn this whole story sucks. My mother is trying to reconcile but my dad just doesn't want to and is sticking with his belief that "it just can't work anymore after 20 years of fighting".

I have to admit they ALWAYS fight, like all the time. Not everyday but very often and it got ugly a couple of times.

I'm not sure what I want to do. I guess staying here is the best because I'm used to it but I'd also like to live in England because I want to, it's my damn country.


-Xm8

[artlady]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

My mother thinks that I shouldn't decide and I should make my dad understand that I shouldn't have to go anywhere or decide anything.

Damn this whole story sucks. My mother is trying to reconcile but my dad just doesn't want to and is sticking with his belief that "it just can't work anymore after 20 years of fighting".

I have to admit they ALWAYS fight, like all the time. Not everyday but very often and it got ugly a couple of times.

I'm not sure what I want to do. I guess staying here is the best cus I'm used to it but I'd also like to live in England cus I want to, it's my damn country.


-Xm8

I know you are being put in a very difficult position and I hope you have good friends who can help you though this tough time.

[XM8]

Thanks artlady.

The thing is I don't have any good friends but whatever.


-Xm8

[talaniman]

What has your sister decided? I think you'll be happier in England though, because that's what you seem to want.

[XM8]

My sister is kind of... alien to this whole thing. She hugs my mother etc when she cires and is very supportive but she basically seems to be in her own world right now and doesn't mind much I guess. If she had to take a side, she would take my mother's I think, but she loves both parents equally just as I do.

And like you said I think England would be better for me, but I'm not so keen of living with only one parent. I know I'm supposed to act my age and be cool with whatever happens but it is kind of hard.

-Xm8

[talaniman]

I imagine it is difficult, and divorce is hard on everyone. Adjustments will have to be made. And some hard choices for sure. But you can still love your family, whether they are together or not, no matter the circumstances.

[XM8]

Yea that's true but my mother told me that if I decide to leave her and even accept that my parents should sepperate at all, she'll stop talking to me.

I don't think she's serious but when she says things like that I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do.

I want to become a doctor and it will only be easier for me to study in England from now, not wait until I start University to actually go there, so that is one of the main reasons I want to go to England and I told my mother buit she doesn't seem to want to understand.

-Xm8

[taoplr]

XM8,

Here is a little more input.

As tough as it might be, you can navigate this situation.

Your dad is initiating the divorce, so it's predictable for your mum to resist and to try to get you to refuse to make a decision. Let her have time to assimilate and adapt to this change.

You love both your parents and don't want them to fight all the time, or separate, or suffer. You and your sister don't want to suffer either. So, make sure you deal with it as it is, and don't interpret any of the fault as belonging to you. Be clear that your parents are creating this, not you or your sister.

What would happen if you tell your parents that before anything happens, you insist that they see a family therapist or marriage counselor? The goal would not be to keep the family together. That would get your dad to resist. The goal would be, in fairness to you and your sister and in fairness to them, for your parents to determine the best way to create a satisfactory arrangement between them. That would include having the family as a whole devise an arrangement for the two of you. Don't be afraid of using little guilt to get them into therapy.

Tell them that it would be irresponsible to not take this step. Stand up for yourself and your sister. Counseling will give you time to figure out where you want to live (looks like England) and to work out a plan to see them both periodically. Get ready for more independence and responsibility.

[DoulaLC]

You might also consider discussing it as a question of where best you would be able to obtain the sort of education and career opportunities you want. It doesn't have to be an issue of who you want to live with, but more of what location is going to give you the most opportunities.

Unfortuantely, sometimes when the idea of divorce is being raised, adults don't always think about what they say and the potential impact. They are speaking out of anger and hurt, fear and frustration. At times, the kids can almost be more of an adult in the situation than the adults will be.

Try to keep that in mind with what your mother said. Let her know you understand that she is hurt and angry, that you love her dearly and that you know she wouldn't stop talking to you because you know that she loves you too much to hurt you like that. You also know that she and your father would want you to pursue what dreams you have for your own future and that includes the sort of education and career path you want to take.

If they divorce, you will always be able to have visits between the two. It is a difficult and sad situation to have to consider, but sometimes all you can do is try to make the best of it.

[XM8]

Sorry about this long post.

Tell them that it would be irresponsible to not take this step. Stand up for yourself and your sister. Counseling will give you time to figure out where you want to live (looks like England) and to work out a plan to see them both periodically. Get ready for more independence and responsibility.

I'd like to stand up to them but the thing is I don't know if they'll listen to me. My dad will just shrug off the idea of seeing a marriage counselor.

Before yesterday we went for a lovely drive and we got talking. When I asked him why he just can't patch the situation up he told me he's had 20 years of "this crap" and it just won't work anymore.

My mother is.. oh well she's not taking this well and just wants everything to fall into place.

I'm standing in the middle of this because I can see the faults of both my mother and father. My mother only sees my father's faults but not hers, and vice versa. As for my sister, she's just staying out of all this and I assume she's just going along with the breeze.

I want to help but I feel like this is going nowhere. I may seem like a real assh*le for saying this but I'm not so worried about my parents getting divorced. I say to myself : What is the point of us all being together if my parents are just going to keep on fighting and maintaning a negative environment?

In the past 5 years so much crap has happened to all of us. My mother and I got into a fight, she called the police on me and my dad. Then a few months ago my dad got my mother thrown out the house by the police for a month.

I didn't talk to my mother from September until December because I was so ashamed of myself.

Pretty crazy I guess, but the point is that although all of this happened, my parents got along as if nothing had happened. And now my dad suddenly comes along with this new plan...

I'm so worried about my school work I don't really want to get involved with this. I'm just thinking that I'll finish school here and move to England at the end of this school term and that's that.

You might also consider discussing it as a question of where best you would be able to obtain the sort of education and career opportunities you want. It doesn't have to be an issue of who you want to live with, but more of what location is going to give you the most opportunities.

I know exactly what you mean. I tried telling my mother that I want to go to medical school in England and work their as a doctor anyway, so what would be the harm in moving there now?

She told me that she wouldn't mind if my father said that the whole family is moving there, but since that isn't what he's planning, it's not OK.

I told her that what she said sounds a bit selfish and she told me that me and my sister are in need of a mother and a father figure.

My dad sees it as I'm old enough to be in the armed forces now (I'm 17 in a few months) and that I should start acting like a man.

Maybe true but what about my sister? She's barely 14 and a half.

This whole situation is really confusing and I have no idea what to do.

-Xm8

[DoulaLC]

Your father had the nerve to tell you to start acting like a man?? That's something he should have been thinking about himself in regard to some of his choices in the past. Hopefully he has learned some hard lessons himself from all that has gone on. Besides, I'd say you are handling the situation quite maturally... better than most your age likely would.

Is there anyway your family could move to England and if they want to divorce, do so after the move? Would your father do that much to make the transition easier for everyone else? That way you would be closer to both of them.

I know your mom would like you to stay with her, but you might point out to her that you are at an age when many kids move away for school anyway.

In an ideal situation, a child would have both a mother and father, but that obviously doesn't always work out... for a variety of reasons, and it isn't always in the child's best interest anyway.

Can she honestly say to you that having the family together, with the frequent fighting and negative atmosphere is a better environment for the children than if they separated and could find happpiness and contentment elsewhere?

She is hurt and fearful, and I fully understand that. She is facing the prospect of her marriage dissolving and not having both of her children with her. Certainly not what a woman expects to experience when she gets married and has a family.

Continue to try and talk to both of them, if possible at the same time, to discuss (not argue... and make that a request upfront!) the best ways to help you and your sister through this. Acknowledge their feelings, but remind them that they need to put those aside for a moment and consider you and your sister and your needs, wants, goals, etc.. They owe it to you both to make sure you have the opportunities you would have normally if there was no divorce looming.

Do keep an eye out for your sister. She may appear to be handling this in a quiet and reserved way, but more than likely she is scared, hurt, and confused. Sometimes being too quiet, when something so major is occurring, is a way to deal with things when they are too overwhelming. Just let her know you are there for her and she can count on you when so much else around her is changing.

I wish you well, I hope your parents will be able to put aside their anger towards each other and not lose sight of what is really important.

[taoplr]

Don't give up on your dad. Make the case that the purpose of seeing a counselor is to get professional help to make the transition work the best way possible for all of you. Tell him clearly that it's not just the two of them who are separating. It's all of you. Tell him that you are confused and worried about your schooling and that you would benefit from a therapeutic process. So will your sister and mother. Remind him that no matter where you live, you still count on him to act as your dad and will continue to do so. He might be giving up on his relationship with your mum, but he will always be your dad.

There is nothing that will make this easy, but saying what needs to be said under therapeutic supervision and hearing what you all need to hear will make things go much better. Maybe you are old enough to take it "like a man" but there is no need to make this harder. There is no benefit in moving apart a reactive or thoughtless manner. If you succeed at getting everyone before a good counselor, you all will get time to process this change. Maybe your parents will come to terms with their divorce and get to a reasonable understanding. Maybe not, but it's worth a try.

Plus, a smart counselor will spot your parents' patterns and get them to own up to their contribution to this situation. Again, the goal is clarity, not staying together. If you can be a man, so can your dad. Since the fights have reached the point of involving the police and getting your mother out for a month, your home is not completely safe; both your parents have some work to do.

So do you. As confusing as this is, you can focus on school, take care of your body, take care of your emotions (You might insist on counseling for your sister and you to reduce the affects of this event and the years of bad behavior that led up to this event; then, seeing benefit in you, maybe your dad will become willing to participate) and refuse to be put in between them like something being used as a bargaining tool.

Your mum's argument that you need both parents falls flat. Nobody needs two parents who are fighting all the time.

Keep your head on straight. You will be OK.

[XM8]

Thank you both DoulaLC and Taopir for your help.

Is there anyway your family could move to England and if they want to divorce, do so after the move? Would your father do that much to make the transition easier for everyone else? That way you would be closer to both of them.

I don't think that my father would accept because he just wouldn't want to. He's pretty set on leaving, and without my mother. He's already seen someone to sell his car (I was with him) and he's leaving again for England in less than a week, so he's not joking about going there.

Even though he's leaving, my dad's still there for me as he told me that I have the choice to join him in England but I can't wait too long before telling him, meaning he needs to know in a few weeks.

I know my dad is putting me in a difficult situation, but I can't say he's a bad person, because he obviously didn't just pack up and leave. He provided us with a beautiful home and sends us to a private school so I know he works hard to support us all.

Plus, it's not as if he hates my mother, he still talks to her like he usually does, I'm guessing because he told me he wants to "part peacefully" and not by leaving a big piece of crap in everyone's hearts and minds.

Can she honestly say to you that having the family together, with the frequent fighting and negative atmosphere is a better environment for the children than if they separated and could find happpiness and contentment elsewhere?

I asked my mother that same question and she answered me by saying that "I'm not the one who makes the problems".
When I tell her that she's changing the subject, because I obviously didn't ask her who or what is the reason behind the problems, she immediately tells me to go away or to stop talking to her.

I think that she is trying to avoid the truth, the truth she doesn't want to accept. I'm not blaming her, I feel sorry for her because she has this image in her mind that all should be perfect and it isn't.

Do keep an eye out for your sister. [... ] Just let her know you are there for her and she can count on you when so much else around her is changing.

I'd like to but I think it would be a bit awkward for me. I know it's pityful, it's just one of my character flaws. I can't be straight forward about emotions, or anything personal with people I know too well - especially my family, it's kind of embarrassing.

But I'm always doing my best to have as much fun as possible with my sister and just keeping both our spirits up, so I think everything should be OK.

Taopir, I fully understand the benefits of counselling however I'm afraid seeing a counselor isn't really a likelihood for any of us, especially my dad.

My dad is so busy working and doing things that he doesn't have time for that, and wouldn't want to see a counselor anyway. For him the marriage is over and that's just the way it is. I asked him why does this have to happen and he just tells me the same thing over and over : He can't stand the fighting anymore, it's not working with my mother, the situation is giving him health problems (high pressure, back pains).

I know he's not lying to me, all of the above is true but isn't there some way to fix this?

How am I supposed to be looking at this whole situation anyway?

To be honest I think I'm being a bit selfish here. Just for my fantasies of finally being able to live in England and going to school in English, I'm doing a horrible thing of secretly being for my parents' divorce.

I haven't said it to any one of them yet that I want them to get divorced, I've said the opposite.

But what if it's a good thing for my parents to get divorced? Is that even possible? Would it be right?

-Xm8

[DoulaLC]

Oddly, sometimes it is a good thing for parents to divorce. When the situation becomes so toxic that it literally causes health concerns, then it can be a very good thing. If one, or both, can't see a reason to keep trying, if they feel it is not something they want to keep working at, then they are better off separating. Chances are they, your mother in particular, will see this more clearly as time goes on and she finds she enjoys not having the arguing and tension that was there before. It is quite likely your father will experience fewer health concerns due to the change in stress level as well. Sometimes you just don't see things for how they really are until you are out of the situation.

It is not wrong of you to feel some sense of relief that they are going to divorce, or that it will be a reason to open the door for you to study in England. You didn't make the situation happen, you can't stop it from happening. Unfortunately the children of divorce are along for the ride and hopefully the parents can work towards making is as smooth as possible.

You've spoken to your mother, she knows your feelings and what you would like to do, there is not much else you can say to her. She will likely be giving it some thought now that she has been made aware. Hopefully she will come around... but she might not, at least not right away.

You are going to have to do what you feel is best for you now, your parents will have to sort their own lives out.
If you go to England, keep reminding your mom how much you love her and keep in as close of contact with her as possible. That is likely one of her greatest fears is that she will lose contact with you if you are separated.

As for your sister, maybe write her a letter. Sometimes putting your thoughts, and what you want to say, down on paper is much easier than talking face to face... look what a brilliant job you have done here!

[taoplr]

...he told me he wants to "part peacefully" and not by leaving a big piece of crap in everyone's hearts and minds.

Sounds like he is determined just go. He might feel that if he doesn't move now, he won't have the strength and stamina to endure any more. It's complicated, what he's doing, and painful, expensive, and emotionally draining for everybody. He's got to feel serious guilt. He's probably done telling himself that he can make it work if he only tries harder, but some part of him will remain disappointed in himself. Having failed at this, and feeling awful about it, he will also feel elated, liberated, and energized. That's because it's a new start.

You're feeling some of that, too. Your secret desire to have them split so you can exchange a battleground for school in England comes as no surprise. It's not a horrible thing. You'd have to be twisted to want that way of being a family to continue. The wise thing to do is to either change it or, if you can't change it, leave it.

"I'm not the one who makes the problems".

Your mum is having a hard time with this. I don't know what you can do for her except pay attention to her, listen to her and be truthful to her. For her, as well as for yourself and the others, be present (if that term makes sense). You're right. She's in denial, and your dad appears to be on a track for which she is not prepared. My suspicion is that she wouldn't see a counselor either, but she has work to do to sort this out. But, she's waiting for your dad to actually leave.

I would advise you to go to work on your mum, too. Get to therapy. Deal with yourself. But your statement below leads to another conversation.

"I can't be straight forward about emotions, or anything personal with people I know too well."

This illuminates a piece of work that you can do to help improve the situation. The one thing that all of you will need going forward is the ability to communicate with each other, and you won't need to be communicating about the weather. Your difficulty being straightforward with people close to you is like a key that, once you resolve it, fits a lock that holds your family in a kind of mental/emotional prison. What would it be like if you made resolving this difficulty an area of study, something you take from all of this, your personal art? Can you see yourself having a good time unraveling this knot?

Right now, your dad is making a break, and it looks like you might be going with him. Teach yourself to be present.

[XM8]

Sorry for having taken so long to post back. School work and such..

Well my dad left this morning to England and it's been very hard on my mother. She's been cleaning the house and crying throughout the whole day. Actually, she's been doing that all week.

My parents had a huge fight 2 days ago while I was out, my dad basically smashed everything up in the house and my mother ended up cleaning it as usual.

Anyway, we're in a pretty crappy situation, one which I thought I'd never be in. My dad left my mother, my sister and I with only 150 euros and said that after 3 months he'll stop paying for the school and house and.. well what the hell is that? Plus he left his bank account with an overdraft of -2500 euros believe it or not, so we can't withdraw any cash. School fees and the mortgage payments are due in less than 2 months, what do we do?

He's basically black mailing us into moving away at the end of June. And now I'm not even sure I can go to England and stay with him because he said it "might be too late for me to enroll".

I'm busting my chops trying to get good marks at school and this situation right now is not helping at all.

Any advice? What do we do about the money? How are we going to get through, and how do I comfort my mother?

Just on a side note, I feel like I've been cheated out of a good life and this is real b*ll.

Please help me, I'm stuck.

Thanks,

-Xm8

P.S.

My mother is even more mad/sad because she told me she overheard my father on the phone, speaking to some woman about getting married and I don't know what. She thinks it's this same chick who sent my father an X-Mas card ; an old friend from high school or something.

Damn... wth is going on here?