[jakester]

First off, I am not Jewish... I am a gentile. I do believe that Jesus Christ is the promised Messiah in the Old Testament, so I wanted to be up front about that. I have had an interest in Jewish culture since the first time I traveled to Israel more than 10 years ago. Since that time, I have come to believe in Christ and his teachings.

One of the things that I have learned about my faith is that Christianity has not always been demonstrative of Christ's command to "love your neighbor as yourself." What I mean is that things have been done in the name of Christianity that were diametrically opposed to Christ's words. Because of this, many Jews I have met have a disdain for Christianity because it is their impression that Christianity is an enemy of Jews. But the more I have studied both the Old Testament and the New Testament, I have seen that Jews are to be respected because they are the recipients of the promises of God and will one day see the fulfillment of all that God has promised to the nation of Israel.

I am excited about this and I want to try and dialogue with others Jews about who the real biblical Jesus of Nazareth was. If people want to respond angrily to me and curse me, I would hope that they would at least provide reasons for why they hate Jesus or simply do not see him as the Messiah. Perhaps there are some who are already curious about who this Jesus is. I have met several Jews who do believe Christ is the Messiah prophesied of in the Torah. They are fascinating but often maligned by their own people because of their faith. Yet they remain committed.

What do others say or think? All comments are welcome!

[mudweiser]

I'm not Jewish. I'm not a Christian nor am I Catholic. I don't like religious labels but if you'd have to smack one on me I'd go with Unitarian Universalist.

I think Jesus was a man who came to earth and was directed by God to do his works. I do believe however that what was written about what Jesus said or did isn't exact- maybe some words got tossed here and there and there has been some "addition" to several stories.

I believe that praying to Jesus is the same as praying to God. The only difference is that Jesus paid for our sins.

This is what I believe.

MRS.S

[excon]

Who is Jesus Christ?

Hello jake:

Jesus was a nice Jewish boy. I don't think there's any Jews who hate him. Why would they? HE didn't establish Christianity. He was a Rabbi being Jewish. As a matter of fact, The Last Supper was a Seder celebrating Passover.

It was others who made a religion out of him.

excon

[N0help4u]

I agree 100% Jake
My Bible teaches me LOVE the Jew

P.S. When you want really great answers from a Jewish perspective I think ETWolverine is the best.

[ScottGem]

I just came from a Sedar held by a messianic Jewsih temple. Messianic Jews believe that Jesus Christ (or Yeshuah as they refer to him) was the promised Messiah. But they don't believe in Christianity as a splinter sect.

One of the things the rabbi (yes a rabbi not a priest) stressed was that Christianity was founded on judiasm and that Jesus' teachings do not end judiasm as a faith but they just add to it. As excon said he was a nice Jewish boy being a rabbi.

Now I'm not saying I believe this (my wife is a member of the temple not I). But if one wants to believe that Jesus was the messiah, it makes more sense to me to believe this as part of being Jewish, not to start a whole new religion.

As to why I don't believe in Jesus as the messiah, the coming of the messiah was supposed to be preceded by certain signs. Many of those signs were not present to announce jesus as the messiah.

[N0help4u]

Exactly right about Chistianity not being its own religion Scott.
I would be interested in what signs were not fulfilled by Jesus.

[jakester]

Exactly right about Chistianity not being its own religion Scott.
I would be interested in what signs were not fulfilled by Jesus.

Scott - it's interesting to hear your thoughts. I would also like to hear about which signs were not fulfilled by Jesus.

[ScottGem]

I'm not an expert on this, but the main issue was the prophet Elijah did not precede the coming.

This article http://www.aish.com/spirituality/phi..._in_jesus$.asp

May help.

[N0help4u]

That is referring to the second coming because the anti Christ of the end times has to be revealed. It is referred to in revelation.

[Fr_Chuck]

Since we have not had someone Jewish answer (?? excon I though you were jewish )

But in general most don't think anything of him, they don't think he existed and if he did, he was just a man whose followers were mislead or wrong.

At best he would have been a teacher of the time who died and had followers who basically made up all the stories.

[N0help4u]

At most they believe Jesus was a great prophet

[lighterrr]

Jake I am no longer a christian nor am I jewish I now see jesus as a great prophet, someone who came to show jews & gentiles how we should live by loving thy neighbour as thy self.

Jesus is no longer my lord or saviour there is only 1 god and that is the creator in my opinion.

[BABRAM]

What do others say or think? All comments are welcome!

He was a man. The person of subject became a historical reference that was presented by the church via canonized texts in what became known as the New Testament. Jake, for most Jews, even less practicing Jews like myself, we recognize that we have yet to live in an accomplished messianic age. If such person exists in the future and is up to the tasks, then I would be glad to label them messiah, but it hasn't happened.

[ibrown]

There is one God ,Jesus and Christ. So all that other means nothing to me because he is a mighty god and he never leaves us nor forsake us Man has many heads messed up that they don't know what to believe... be bleesed

[ETWolverine]

There are quite a few people here who are answering this post that are NOT Jewish, have not studied Judaism, and do not know Jewish history or culture, but are answering as if they do. That bothers me. Just for the record, I am an Orthodox Jew, generally observant of Jewish Law, and a student of Jewish History, Talmudic studies and the Old Testament. I have also taken the time to read the New Testament so that I can speak on the subject of the NT when it comes up.

Before I answer the original question, I would like to comment on Messianic Judaism. Messianic Judaismis not accepted by any of the "mainstream" sects of Judaism as a Jewish sect. Orthodox, Reform and Conservative Judaism all resoundingly reject Messianic Judaism for a number of reasons, including the fact that Messianic Judaism (most especially but not exclusively "Jews For Jesus") is supported by the Southern Baptist Church and is actually an extension of Southern Baptism, not Judaism. Furthermore, their beliefes are diametrically opposed to that of all other Jewish sects.

It would be like calling a sect that believes that Jesus was not the Messiah a Christian sect. It would be an untrue statement, because Christianity is DEFINED as the beliefe that Jesus was/is the Messiah and the son of G-d. Anything that is contrary to that beliefe cannot be defined as Christianity.

Now... on to the original post.

Who was Jesus (according to Jewish beliefe)?

That's a difficult question to answer. The Talmud mentions the name "Yeshu Hanotzri" or Yeshu of Nazareth on two occasions. However, these events take place centuries apart from each other. There is also reference to someone called "Oto Ha'Ish" or "That Man" which could be an oblique reference to Jesus. However, the reference seems to predate the story of Jesus by about a century.

There are those who believe that the story of Jesus that is told in the NT are actually an amalgam of several people. That is, there was no single person named "Jesus" to whom all these events occurred, but rather these were events that happened to a few different people over a few centuries, and were combined into a single story.

I personally disagree with that. I think that there was a guy named Jesus, born of a mother named Miriam and a father named Joseph. He was a student of some of the greatest Rabbis of the time, and he attempted to teach Roman citizens about monotheism. Because the power of the Roman Senate stemmed from beliefe in the Roman pantheon of gods ("divine right of kings" and all that), and because Jesus was starting to have some success in his recruiting of Rman citizens to monotheism, he became a threat to the power base of Rome. As a result, the Roman Senate, and a particular governor named Pilate, decided to take action to get rid of this rabble-rouser. They put him to death... perhaps in the manner described in the NT, perhaps not. Doesn't matter from my perspective.

The followers of this "Jesus" guy continued to follow his teachings, and continued to spread the word about him. However, for the first three centuries of their existence, they were too weak a group to take on Rome in a straight-up fight for their survival and the survival of their philosophy. Since they didn't want to insult Rome for fear of being wiped out, they had to change the story of their genesis so that Rome wasn't seen as the bad-guy. Romans didn't like it when they were seen as the bad-guy in historical records. So these early followers of Jesus needed someone else to blame it on. The Jews were in no better political shape than they were, and couldn't effectively fight back against the revised history, so they were a good target for becoming the bad-guy in the Jesus story. Furthermore, these early Christians had tried to recruit Jews into their group and had pretty much failed, so they looked upon the Jews with enemity. So the Jews were a perfect target for a host of reasons.

There are a number of parts of the Jesus story in the NT that do not ring true. For instance, the story is told that Jesus was called before the Sanhedrin immediately following the "last supper". The Last supper was the first night of Passover (the first Seder), which is the beginning of a 7-day holiday (8-days outside of Israel, but the story takes place inside Israel, so I'll use that as my reference). What most people outside of Judaism (and many inside Judaism) don't know is that the Sanhedrin is prohibited from meeting on Jewish Holidays like Passover. Which means that the story could NOT have occurred as it was written in the NT. This leads me to believe that major parts of the story were changed from whatever really occurred by people who didn't really know or understand Jewish law.

As to the question of whether Jesus was the Messiah or not, the universal Jewish beliefe (meaning the beliefe of all sects of Judaism) is that he was NOT the Messiah. According to Maimonides, there are 4 things that the Messiah must accomplish in order for him to be recognized as the Messiah. These are:

1) The ingathering of the Jews to Israel,
2) An end to war, hunger, pain, disease and strife,
3) The beliefe of all mankind in monotheism, and
4) The rebuilding of the Great Temple.

Jesus did NONE of these four things.

The majority of Jews were already in Israel at that point. They weren't exiled for another 35 years, after the destruction of the second Great Temple in 70 AD.

We do not have an end to war, pain, hunger and strife. In fact, there has NEVER been a period in human history in which we have not been at war with each other. And take a look at Africa and tell me if there is an end to hunger, disease, pain and strife.

Despite 2000 years of Jesus' followers being missionaries to the world regarding beliefe in monotheism, the majority of the world is NOT monotheistic.

The Great Temple has still not been rebuilt. In fact, the Second Great Temple was still in existence at the time Jesus was supposed to have been crucified.

Since these requirements have not been met, Jesus cannot have been the Messiah according to Jewish beliefe.

On the subject of the "enemity" between Jews and Christians, yes there is quite a bit of bad history between us. But while you might think that all of that stuff is in the past, from the Orthodox Jewish perspective, that "bad stuff" is still going on. Missionary groups, Messianic cults, etc. still target Jews for protelization, especially unaffiliated or uneducated Jews. While you may see this as "bringing them closer to Christ", WE see it as an attack on Jewish souls, and one that continues through this day. Christianity once tried to convert us through the sword. Today they do it using kind words. The EFFECT from the Orthodox Jewish point of view is the same, though... Jewish souls lost. And that is why there continues to be a level of distrust by many Jews of Christians.

I refuse to take this discussion to the level of cursing and name calling. I simply wish to explain a (as in "ONE") Jewish perspective on Jesus and Christianity. I see no advantage to the name-calling. Dialogue is preferred 90% of the time, and I happen to enjoy such dialogues.

Please feel free to post any questions you might have on the subject or on anything I have posted here.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Elliot

[lighterrr]

There are quite a few people here who are answering this post that are NOT Jewish, have not studied Judaism, and do not know Jewish history or culture, but are answering as if they do. That bothers me. Just for the record, I am an Orthodox Jew, generally observant of Jewish Law, and a student of Jewish History, Talmudic studies and the Old Testament. I have also taken the time to read the New Testament so that I can speak on the subject of the NT when it comes up.

Before I answer the original question, I would like to comment on Messianic Judaism. Messianic Judaismis not accepted by any of the "mainstream" sects of Judaism as a Jewish sect. Orthodox, Reform and Conservative Judaism all resoundingly reject Messianic Judaism for a number of reasons, including the fact that Messianic Judaism (most especially but not exclusively "Jews For Jesus") is supported by the Southern Baptist Church and is actually an extension of Southern Baptism, not Judaism. Furthermore, their beliefes are diametrically opposed to that of all other Jewish sects.

It would be like calling a sect that believes that Jesus was not the Messiah a Christian sect. It would be an untrue statement, because Christianity is DEFINED as the beliefe that Jesus was/is the Messiah and the son of G-d. Anything that is contrary to that beliefe cannot be defined as Christianity.

Now... on to the original post.

Who was Jesus (according to Jewish beliefe)?

That's a difficult question to answer. The Talmud mentions the name "Yeshu Hanotzri" or Yeshu of Nazareth on two occassions. However, these events take place centuries apart from each other. There is also reference to someone called "Oto Ha'Ish" or "That Man" which could be an oblique reference to Jesus. However, the reference seems to predate the story of Jesus by about a century.

There are those who believe that the story of Jesus that is told in the NT are actually an amalgam of several people. That is, there was no single person named "Jesus" to whom all these events occured, but rather these were events that happened to a few different people over a few centuries, and were combined into a single story.

I personally disagree with that. I think that there was a guy named Jesus, born of a mother named Miriam and a father named Joseph. He was a student of some of the greatest Rabbis of the time, and he attempted to teach Roman citizens about monotheism. Because the power of the Roman Senate stemmed from beliefe in the Roman pantheon of gods ("divine right of kings" and all that), and because Jesus was starting to have some success in his recruiting of Rman citizens to monotheism, he became a threat to the power base of Rome. As a result, the Roman Senate, and a particular governor named Pilate, decided to take action to get rid of this rabble-rouser. They put him to death... perhaps in the manner described in the NT, perhaps not. Doesn't matter from my perspective.

The followers of this "Jesus" guy continued to follow his teachings, and continued to spread the word about him. However, for the first three centuries of their existence, they were too weak a group to take on Rome in a straight-up fight for their survival and the survival of their philosophy. Since they didn't want to insult Rome for fear of being wiped out, they had to change the story of their genesis so that Rome wasn't seen as the bad-guy. Romans didn't like it when they were seen as the bad-guy in historical records. So these early followers of Jesus needed someone else to blame it on. The Jews were in no better political shape than they were, and couldn't effectively fight back against the revised history, so they were a good target for becoming the bad-guy in the Jesus story. Furthermore, these early Christians had tried to recruit Jews into their group and had pretty much failed, so they looked upon the Jews with enemity. So the Jews were a perfect target for a host of reasons.

There are a number of parts of the Jesus story in the NT that do not ring true. For instance, the story is told that Jesus was called before the Sanhedrin immediately following the "last supper". The Last supper was the first night of Passover (the first Seder), which is the begining of a 7-day holiday (8-days outside of Israel, but the story takes place inside Israel, so I'll use that as my reference). What most people outside of Judaism (and many inside Judaism) don't know is that the Sanhedrin is prohibited from meeting on Jewish Holidays like Passover. Which means that the story could NOT have occured as it was written in the NT. This leads me to believe that major parts of the story were changed from whatever really occured by people who didn't really know or understand Jewish law.

As to the question of whether Jesus was the Messiah or not, the universal Jewish beliefe (meaning the beliefe of all sects of Judaism) is that he was NOT the Messiah. According to Maimonides, there are 4 things that the Messiah must accomplish in order for him to be recognized as the Messiah. These are:

1) The ingathering of the Jews to Israel,
2) An end to war, hunger, pain, disease and strife,
3) The beliefe of all mankind in monotheism, and
4) The rebuilding of the Great Temple.

Jesus did NONE of these four things.

The majority of Jews were already in Israel at that point. They weren't exiled for another 35 years, after the destruction of the second Great Temple in 70 AD.

We do not have an end to war, pain, hunger and strife. In fact, there has NEVER been a period of time in human history in which we have not been at war with each other. And take a look at Africa and tell me if there is an end to hunger, disease, pain and strife.

Despite 2000 years of Jesus' followers being missionaries to the world regarding beliefe in monotheism, the majority of the world is NOT monotheistic.

The Great Temple has still not been rebuilt. In fact, the Second Great Temple was still in existence at the time Jesus was supposed to have been crucified.

Since these requirements have not been met, Jesus cannot have been the Messiah according to Jewish beliefe.

On the subject of the "enemity" between Jews and Christians, yes there is quite a bit of bad history between us. But while you might think that all of that stuff is in the past, from the Orthodox Jewish perspective, that "bad stuff" is still going on. Missionary groups, Messianic cults, etc. still target Jews for protelization, especially unaffiliated or uneducated Jews. While you may see this as "bringing them closer to Christ", WE see it as an attack on Jewish souls, and one that continues through this day. Christianity once tried to convert us through the sword. Today they do it using kind words. The EFFECT from the Orthodox Jewish point of view is the same, though... Jewish souls lost. And that is why there continues to be a level of distrust by many Jews of Christians.

I refuse to take this discussion to the level of cursing and name calling. I simply wish to explain a (as in "ONE") Jewish perspective on Jesus and Christianity. I see no advantage to the name-calling. Dialogue is preferred 90% of the time, and I happen to enjoy such dialogues.

Please feel free to post any questions you might have on the subject or on anything I have posted here.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Elliot

Elliot thank you for a very informative and insightful post. I am not jewish nor do I follow judiasm or christianity. Now I don't belong to any form of religious following but I am deeply spiritual, and I do believe that there is only one God. I believe that jesus lived but he was only a great prophet, I don't see him as the messiah or the son of God. I think jesus came to show us how to live to set an example, and I also see his crucifixion as being more methaphysical than physical.
In terms of the NT well I believe that a lot of the scriptures we read today where changed by the catholic church to further brainwash the masses and make the church appear to be the only means of getting close to God. I also agree that when the REAL messiah comes the end of wars, hunger etc. will be no more. Jesus came to show us that God lives within us and we are all gods within ourselves.

[Pokerface5]

Jesus is a Man who came to earth born of the virgin Mary to Die in order to take our place of eternal death. I am labeled a chritian but really I'm just a follower and lover of Jesus.

[ETWolverine]

Jesus is a Man who came to earth born of the virgin Mary to Die in order to take our place of eternal death. I am labeled a chritian but really I'm just a follower and lover of Jesus.

In the original post, Jakester said

I am excited about this and I want to try and dialogue with others Jews about who the real biblical Jesus of Nazareth was.

I appreciate that lots of people want to answer the question. But why would anyone who is not Jewish, has never studied Judaism, and does not know what Jews believe feel that they are qualified to answer this question on behalf of Jews?

I respect your points of view, but it is NOT the Jewish belief, and this is the Judaism answer board. If you wish to discuss the Jewish point of view and debate it, that's fine. If you wish to state why the Jewish point of view may be flawed, I'll be happy to debate that topic. But stating your own views as if it were the same as the Jewish point of view? I have a problem with that.

This post refers to:
Pokerface
Ibrown
Mudweiser
Lighterr

I am NOT referring to:
Excon, who is Jewish and therefore has SOME knowledge of what Jews believe,

Babram, who is Jewish and somewhat educated on the subject,

Fr Chuck, who correctly stated what he believes the Jewish view is rather than stating his own opinion,

NoHelp4U, who tried to state what she thinks the Jewish opinion is (incorrect though it was --- we do not see Jesus as a prophet... he was born about 589 years after prophesy left us at the destruction of the First Great Temple) instead of stating her own opinion.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here. I am trying to point out that, whatever your personal opinions may be, if they are Christian or if they believe that Jesus was the Messiah or the Son of G-d, then they are NOT the Jewish concepts of Jesus. Therefore they are NOT correct answers to the original question, which askes for the Jewish, not the Christian, concept of Jesus.

Elliot

[jakester]

There are quite a few people here who are answering this post that are NOT Jewish, have not studied Judaism, and do not know Jewish history or culture, but are answering as if they do. That bothers me. Just for the record, I am an Orthodox Jew, generally observant of Jewish Law, and a student of Jewish History, Talmudic studies and the Old Testament. I have also taken the time to read the New Testament so that I can speak on the subject of the NT when it comes up.

Before I answer the original question, I would like to comment on Messianic Judaism. Messianic Judaismis not accepted by any of the "mainstream" sects of Judaism as a Jewish sect. Orthodox, Reform and Conservative Judaism all resoundingly reject Messianic Judaism for a number of reasons, including the fact that Messianic Judaism (most especially but not exclusively "Jews For Jesus") is supported by the Southern Baptist Church and is actually an extension of Southern Baptism, not Judaism. Furthermore, their beliefes are diametrically opposed to that of all other Jewish sects.

It would be like calling a sect that believes that Jesus was not the Messiah a Christian sect. It would be an untrue statement, because Christianity is DEFINED as the beliefe that Jesus was/is the Messiah and the son of G-d. Anything that is contrary to that beliefe cannot be defined as Christianity.

Now... on to the original post.

Who was Jesus (according to Jewish beliefe)?

That's a difficult question to answer. The Talmud mentions the name "Yeshu Hanotzri" or Yeshu of Nazareth on two occassions. However, these events take place centuries apart from each other. There is also reference to someone called "Oto Ha'Ish" or "That Man" which could be an oblique reference to Jesus. However, the reference seems to predate the story of Jesus by about a century.

There are those who believe that the story of Jesus that is told in the NT are actually an amalgam of several people. That is, there was no single person named "Jesus" to whom all these events occured, but rather these were events that happened to a few different people over a few centuries, and were combined into a single story.

I personally disagree with that. I think that there was a guy named Jesus, born of a mother named Miriam and a father named Joseph. He was a student of some of the greatest Rabbis of the time, and he attempted to teach Roman citizens about monotheism. Because the power of the Roman Senate stemmed from beliefe in the Roman pantheon of gods ("divine right of kings" and all that), and because Jesus was starting to have some success in his recruiting of Rman citizens to monotheism, he became a threat to the power base of Rome. As a result, the Roman Senate, and a particular governor named Pilate, decided to take action to get rid of this rabble-rouser. They put him to death... perhaps in the manner described in the NT, perhaps not. Doesn't matter from my perspective.

The followers of this "Jesus" guy continued to follow his teachings, and continued to spread the word about him. However, for the first three centuries of their existence, they were too weak a group to take on Rome in a straight-up fight for their survival and the survival of their philosophy. Since they didn't want to insult Rome for fear of being wiped out, they had to change the story of their genesis so that Rome wasn't seen as the bad-guy. Romans didn't like it when they were seen as the bad-guy in historical records. So these early followers of Jesus needed someone else to blame it on. The Jews were in no better political shape than they were, and couldn't effectively fight back against the revised history, so they were a good target for becoming the bad-guy in the Jesus story. Furthermore, these early Christians had tried to recruit Jews into their group and had pretty much failed, so they looked upon the Jews with enemity. So the Jews were a perfect target for a host of reasons.

There are a number of parts of the Jesus story in the NT that do not ring true. For instance, the story is told that Jesus was called before the Sanhedrin immediately following the "last supper". The Last supper was the first night of Passover (the first Seder), which is the begining of a 7-day holiday (8-days outside of Israel, but the story takes place inside Israel, so I'll use that as my reference). What most people outside of Judaism (and many inside Judaism) don't know is that the Sanhedrin is prohibited from meeting on Jewish Holidays like Passover. Which means that the story could NOT have occured as it was written in the NT. This leads me to believe that major parts of the story were changed from whatever really occured by people who didn't really know or understand Jewish law.

As to the question of whether Jesus was the Messiah or not, the universal Jewish beliefe (meaning the beliefe of all sects of Judaism) is that he was NOT the Messiah. According to Maimonides, there are 4 things that the Messiah must accomplish in order for him to be recognized as the Messiah. These are:

1) The ingathering of the Jews to Israel,
2) An end to war, hunger, pain, disease and strife,
3) The beliefe of all mankind in monotheism, and
4) The rebuilding of the Great Temple.

Jesus did NONE of these four things.

The majority of Jews were already in Israel at that point. They weren't exiled for another 35 years, after the destruction of the second Great Temple in 70 AD.

We do not have an end to war, pain, hunger and strife. In fact, there has NEVER been a period of time in human history in which we have not been at war with each other. And take a look at Africa and tell me if there is an end to hunger, disease, pain and strife.

Despite 2000 years of Jesus' followers being missionaries to the world regarding beliefe in monotheism, the majority of the world is NOT monotheistic.

The Great Temple has still not been rebuilt. In fact, the Second Great Temple was still in existence at the time Jesus was supposed to have been crucified.

Since these requirements have not been met, Jesus cannot have been the Messiah according to Jewish beliefe.

On the subject of the "enemity" between Jews and Christians, yes there is quite a bit of bad history between us. But while you might think that all of that stuff is in the past, from the Orthodox Jewish perspective, that "bad stuff" is still going on. Missionary groups, Messianic cults, etc. still target Jews for protelization, especially unaffiliated or uneducated Jews. While you may see this as "bringing them closer to Christ", WE see it as an attack on Jewish souls, and one that continues through this day. Christianity once tried to convert us through the sword. Today they do it using kind words. The EFFECT from the Orthodox Jewish point of view is the same, though... Jewish souls lost. And that is why there continues to be a level of distrust by many Jews of Christians.

I refuse to take this discussion to the level of cursing and name calling. I simply wish to explain a (as in "ONE") Jewish perspective on Jesus and Christianity. I see no advantage to the name-calling. Dialogue is preferred 90% of the time, and I happen to enjoy such dialogues.

Please feel free to post any questions you might have on the subject or on anything I have posted here.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Elliot

Elliot - thanks for taking the time to address my post. I'm very glad that a Jewish person responded and even more glad that someone of an Orthodox background would do so.

I'd like to follow up with some additional comments, questions, etc. I will do so during the week when I've more time.

Again, thanks for what you have done so far.

Sincerely.

[ScottGem]

In terms of the NT well i beleive that a lot of the scriptures we read today where changed by the catholic church to further brainwash the masses and make the church appear to be the only means of getting close to God.

I'm not saying I agree with this, but there was a column in Newsday this Saturday that bears on this. In the column a Rabbi who writes for Newsday was discussing quotations that a reader had made to prove a point from an earlier column. In that column he made a statement that grabbed my attention:

"One of the most important things to understand when quoting the Bible (the Hebrew Bible or the Christian Testament) is that it was not written in English. This means you're not only reading a translation from Hebrew or Greek, but you're also often reading an interpretation masquerading as a translation." God squad: The biblical roots of hell and the devil -- Newsday.com

He went on to reference some quotations as examples. One specific example he referred to which is often used to justify Jesus Christ as the Messiah was the Greek translation of Isaiah 7:14; "and behold a virgin shall give birth". But, according to Gellman, the original Hebrew uses the word alma, which means young woman, instead of betula, which means virgin.

I really thought this was an important point for those people who quote the King James (or other english transalation) of the Bible to keep in mind.