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    mygirlsdad77's Avatar
    mygirlsdad77 Posts: 5,713, Reputation: 339
    Plumbing Expert
     
    #1

    Mar 23, 2009, 04:33 PM
    Looking for some info from an old post
    Can't remember if it was from plumbing, or heating and ac, but someone was asking if they got charged too much for a job. Then one of the pros gave a list of expenses that a contractor has. It was a long list, and was true but also had some humor to it. I really would like to find this post, if any of you guys remember it, please help me find it. Im sure this isn't the right place to ask this, but I know it was one of you regular pros that posted it. Have a good day guys.
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
    Eternal Plumber
     
    #2

    Mar 23, 2009, 04:46 PM
    It wasn't me Dad! I don't give prices. ( It makes me cry when I see how much plumbers get now days.) Cheers, Tom
    mygirlsdad77's Avatar
    mygirlsdad77 Posts: 5,713, Reputation: 339
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    #3

    Mar 23, 2009, 06:09 PM

    Lol. Thanks for the reply. The poster didn't actually give a price(as I recall), he just put up a list of company expenses(no actuall dollar amounts).

    It looked something like this, except much longer.


    Building insurance
    Company truck insurance,
    Tool insurance
    Life insurance
    Donuts
    Unemployment insurance
    Shipping of parts
    Land line telephone bills
    Cell phone bills
    Gas for company trucks
    Bonuses for workers
    Tool expense
    New siding for company building.
    Heating a cooling for company buildings
    Plumbing repairs for company buildings
    Repair of company trucks
    Bail for employees
    Microwave for employees
    Beer fridge for employees(mostly for boss)
    Secretarys
    Etc, etc, etc

    All the things that you don't see on the bill, but things that are very important to keep a business running. Some are required by government, some are just to keep employees happy so they can be more productive.

    I just want to find this post because they gave so many true costs, and some silly ones(but still true) Whether we charge 50 an hour or one hundred and fifty an hour, there is a reason for it. What most people don't understand, is that the owner of the business isn't putting all of this money in his pocket, and (trust me) neither is the worker. Most of it goes right out the window for expenses to keep the business legal and safe.

    Still hoping to find that original post. If you guys agree with me, please add some humor to this. If you don't agree, then you don't understand what your bosses really have to deal with on a day to day basis.
    ballengerb1's Avatar
    ballengerb1 Posts: 27,378, Reputation: 2280
    Home Repair & Remodeling Expert
     
    #4

    Mar 23, 2009, 06:13 PM

    Check with Milo and Mark, I think one of them was outlining why a plumber charged what he did. Sent each a PM and I'll bet one replies affirmatively.
    Milo Dolezal's Avatar
    Milo Dolezal Posts: 7,192, Reputation: 523
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    #5

    Mar 23, 2009, 11:42 PM

    Not my post. But it could be Mark's...
    mygirlsdad77's Avatar
    mygirlsdad77 Posts: 5,713, Reputation: 339
    Plumbing Expert
     
    #6

    Mar 24, 2009, 05:05 PM

    Thanks guys, Marks looking into it. For some reason I had a thought today that it may have been HVAC1000. Ill hit him up and see what he has to say. Is anyone interested in seeing it when I find it?
    Milo Dolezal's Avatar
    Milo Dolezal Posts: 7,192, Reputation: 523
    Plumbing Expert
     
    #7

    Mar 24, 2009, 05:15 PM

    Sure, post it...
    mygirlsdad77's Avatar
    mygirlsdad77 Posts: 5,713, Reputation: 339
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    #8

    Mar 24, 2009, 06:12 PM

    Ok, I found it. I had to look through almost all of hvac's post. Here it is, and I think I could add a hundred or so other expenses, but ill let you guys do that. Keep them coming.



    As to mark up or costs of business, keep in mind a quality contractor that will be there for you when you need him may have some or all of the following business expenses:

    Not limited to;

    401K
    Coffee
    Health Insurance
    Holiday Pay
    Office Benefits
    Sick Pay
    Uniforms
    Vacation Pay
    Air Conditioning Equipment Maintenance
    Building Repairs
    Cleaning Service
    Electric Utilities
    Facility Mortgage Payments
    Furniture
    Gas/Oil Bill
    Landscaping
    Office Rent
    Parts Storage Racks
    Security System
    Shop Tools
    Callbacks
    Miscellaneous Hardware
    Air Conditioning License
    Answering Service
    Bad Debt
    Business Licenses
    Cash Reserves
    Certification Tests
    Chamber of Commerce Dues
    Collections
    Company Picnic
    Dealer Meetings
    Employment Testing
    Help Wanted Advertising
    Interest Expense
    Internet Access
    Inventory
    Inventory Shrinkage
    Invoices
    Legal Services
    Liability Insurance
    Management Training
    Mobile Phone Charges
    Mobile Phones
    Office Training
    Pagers
    Property Insurance
    Recycling
    Subscriptions
    Tax preparation
    Technician Training
    Trade Association Membership
    Brochures
    Charitable Contributions
    Customer Satisfaction Surveys
    Door Hangers
    Home And Garden Shows
    Magnets
    Newsletter
    Newspaper Advertising
    Other Advertising
    Outdoor Advertising
    Patches
    Radio Advertising
    Sales Commissions
    Warranties
    Website
    Yellow Pages
    Youth Sports Team Sponsorships
    Accounting
    Calculators And Adding Machines
    Computer System Maintenance
    Computers
    Copier
    Copies
    Fax Machine
    Files And File Cabinets
    Network
    Office Supplies
    Phone Bill
    Phone System
    Postage
    Postal Equipment
    Printing
    Software
    Stamps And Pads
    Telephone Bill
    Telephone Equipment
    Training Equipment
    Trash And Disposal
    Water Bill
    Call Taker
    Dispatcher
    Employee Incentives
    Employee Pay
    Management
    Office Staff
    Receptionist
    Technician Pay
    Federal Taxes
    Local School Taxes
    Local Taxes
    Municipal Property Tax
    Other property Taxes
    Sales Tax
    Social Security Taxes
    State Taxes
    Unemployment Insurance
    Worker's Comp
    Gasoline
    Ladders
    Radios
    Tires
    Tools
    Truck Decals
    Truck Depreciation
    Truck Insurance
    Truck Inventory
    Truck Ladder Racks
    Truck Maintenance
    Truck Shelves
    Trucks
    Profit
    Tool Insurance
    Truck Plates
    Life Insurance
    Equipment Insurance
    Warranty Expenses
    Code updates
    Other trade book updates
    Permits
    Dental / Vision Insurance
    Equipment Consumables
    Inventory Tax
    Research & Development
    massplumber2008's Avatar
    massplumber2008 Posts: 12,832, Reputation: 1212
    Senior Plumbing Expert
     
    #9

    Mar 25, 2009, 04:09 AM
    Don't forget, Employee "borrowing" or as I call it... STEALING! But we probably don't want to mention that... huh... :D

    Tool loss and replacement, too! You can see I am feeling negative this morning... :p

    Business cards.

    I am sure I will think of others to add.

    Good day all...

    MARK
    johnxlogue's Avatar
    johnxlogue Posts: 12, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #10

    Mar 25, 2009, 08:49 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by mygirlsdad77 View Post
    As to mark up or costs of business, keep in mind a quality contractor that will be there for you when you need him may have some or all of the following business expenses:

    Not limited to;

    Profit
    I knew I'd find it in there (line 13 from the bottom). Plumbers are outrageous. They always want to make a profit.
    massplumber2008's Avatar
    massplumber2008 Posts: 12,832, Reputation: 1212
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    #11

    Mar 25, 2009, 01:38 PM
    You jealous Johnxlogue... a little plumber's envy going on over there... hmmm..?
    mygirlsdad77's Avatar
    mygirlsdad77 Posts: 5,713, Reputation: 339
    Plumbing Expert
     
    #12

    Mar 25, 2009, 03:34 PM

    Ohh yes the profit. The reason we do it day after day. The profit is what feeds our children, pays our home heating bills etc etc. The profit is the what's left over after paying all the other stuff. And it isn't as much af a profit as people would be lead to believe. This is my whole point with this, the profit is minimal. The rest of our hard earned cash goes to others.
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
    Eternal Plumber
     
    #13

    Mar 25, 2009, 04:03 PM
    Profit John! That's the name of the game. Can you really believe thatwe climb up on a roof and snake a sewer for the fun of it. Dad came up with a list of the expenses that a shop owner incurs. Let me give you one from a working plumber.

    THE PLUMBERS CREED
    COLD WATER'S ON THE RIGHT
    SH-T WON'T RUN UP HILL
    THE BOSS'S A SOMABIT-CH
    PAYDAY'S ON FRIDAY
    AND , NEVER,NEVER BITE YOUR NAILS AFTER YOU SNAKE A SEWER.
    And now you know the rest of the story. Tom
    mygirlsdad77's Avatar
    mygirlsdad77 Posts: 5,713, Reputation: 339
    Plumbing Expert
     
    #14

    Mar 25, 2009, 04:35 PM

    Exactly right Tom. I'm still a working plumber, not quite sure if I still want to try the ownership thing after hearing the horror storys about it. That hourly paycheck is pretty nice when you look at all things involved.

    PS, I kind of like the taste of my nails, kind of reminds me of how hard of a day I had.lol.

    Being a plumber brings a whole new meaning to... smell my fingers.
    ballengerb1's Avatar
    ballengerb1 Posts: 27,378, Reputation: 2280
    Home Repair & Remodeling Expert
     
    #15

    Mar 25, 2009, 06:12 PM

    Name a trade who does expect to make a profit?
    mygirlsdad77's Avatar
    mygirlsdad77 Posts: 5,713, Reputation: 339
    Plumbing Expert
     
    #16

    Mar 26, 2009, 04:00 PM

    Exactly. (im sure you meant doesnt).


    I had a gas guy tell me that we should only charge from the time we get to a house till the time we leave. No travel time, to time getting parts, etc. He thought this was a great idea because that's what his gas company does.

    I told him that his company was making money 24/7, 365 days a year from their gas sales. ( I guarnatee that there is a gas meter running somewhere at some point, most likely hundreds or thousands of them, year round, our meter stops running when we close the doors for the day, and stops frequently for call backs and such) We don't have the pleasure of making money when we are sleeping. He just couldn't grasp the concept of small business charges. He couldn't understand that his company is charging all the time, which covers his hourly rate, and then some. None of us have a twenty four hour guaranteed income(except for utility companys) So we have to charge travel time etc etc,(because the employees are still getting paid an hourly rate, so the money to pay them has to come from somewhere. Otherwise we would be out of business.
    csavage1's Avatar
    csavage1 Posts: 86, Reputation: 5
    Junior Member
     
    #17

    Mar 26, 2009, 06:53 PM

    Great post thanks for sharing.
    johnxlogue's Avatar
    johnxlogue Posts: 12, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #18

    Mar 26, 2009, 08:53 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by massplumber2008 View Post
    You jealous Johnxlogue....a little plumber's envy going on over there...hmmm...??
    Of course my remark about profit was a joking way of reminding the reader that tradespeople are entitled to a profit on top of the cost of doing business. I'm sure all plumbers find that some customers try to negotiate the profit out of the estimate or bill.

    I don't begrudge plumbers one penny.
    iamgrowler's Avatar
    iamgrowler Posts: 1,421, Reputation: 110
    Ultra Member
     
    #19

    Mar 27, 2009, 06:40 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by johnxlogue View Post
    Of course my remark about profit was a joking way of reminding the reader that tradespeople are entitled to a profit on top of the cost of doing business. I'm sure all plumbers find that some customers try to negotiate the profit out of the estimate or bill.

    I don't begrudge plumbers one penny.
    At the moment, I can point to a number of my peers who are forgoing profit altogether for the sake of keeping their employees employed and paid.

    Personally, I think this sets a bad precedent; When things do finally pick up, these customers are going to expect the trend to continue.

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