[albear]

were doing better than most countries with straight honest cops.

Reeeeeeeeeealy?

[JudyKayTee]

I don't believe or disbelieve people based on their profession - I know, a little too White Bread America for your taste.

I would also not believe or disbelieve if one party were a mechanic and the other a waitress.

If you are asking about my quasi-professional opinion - which party hired me?

[Couchcarrot]

I wouldn't instinctively take sides either. At one time, I would have believed the
Cop, having been one for over 20 years and retired. I know from personal
Experience and the experiences of a few other good cops that if you get
"on the wrong side" of either of the aforementioned, you'd probably be a
Lot safer being on the wrong side of the accused. The cops have so many
Ways of mustering a battallion of other supposedly ethical and forthright
Agencies against you if they're "pissed off" enough.

[Fr_Chuck]

I know I can not count the times, I had someone in custody, often locked in the back of the car, they would beat their head against the screen or window and then claim I beat them on the way to the police station.

I had one where I had three suspects all handcuffed, going down a flight of stairs, the one in the back slipped and knocked the other two down the flight of steps, of course all three claimed I pushed them.

So yes, from years of personal experience I would opt to believe the officer first

[excon]

Its really about WHY this is happening. I'm sure we love to demand less violence. The bad dudes won't allow that.

I wouldn't instinctively take sides either. you'd probably be a lot safer being on the wrong side of the accused. The cops have so many
ways of mustering a battallion of other supposedly ethical and forthright
agencies against you if they're "pissed off" enough.

Hello again:

Couple things... I'm going to take the above votes as a YES, they believe the prisoner. Although the Padre talked about all the times when the CONVICT was lying, he didn't mention any times he knows about when the COP was lying...

I'll bet he knows of a few...

But, I'm not looking for tit for tat. It doesn't make it EVEN when a prisoner is assaulted because cops get assaulted by other prisoners. I believe we should expect BETTER.

Apparently, 21 agrees with me, but he says it's not the cops fault - because "the bad dudes won't allow it". I don't, of course, subscribe to that notion.

I appreciate Couch for saying what he did... My post, although it was about punching a prisoner, is really about retaliation. There is no doubt about what he's saying. Cops DO retaliate.

What's my point?? I don't know. How is it working for YOU, having your cops DO that?

excon

[21boat]

My post, although it was about punching a prisoner, is really about retaliation.

Retaliation as in hating the officer or suspect or a racial problem, or just against the repeated conditions in re-acting by an officer?

We are humans and at times we make rash decisions. Re -act instead of Act. It happens as kids and at home family/friends and at the work place. At times everyone becomes susceptible. I've worked in a prison and it was amazing when you talk with the prisoners how many supposedly are Innocent. I view the policemen job as a soldier in a war. There is always collateral damage in that environment. Yes there are innocent people at the wrong place at the wrong time. Same as a police officer could make a wrong decision on re acting and not acting. Personally I would believe more the law abiding citizen ( officer) than the suspect. We have the courts to figure out the rest. An officer is our first and last line of defense on the streets, other than the national guard. They are and should be held to a higher accountability for honesty and trust that we citizens ask and expect of him/her. If not then its back to the cave man old west days. Which may still happen at this rate.

I guess the equation here is how often police brutally happens and its all about percentiles of what's acceptable or not and at what level. In turn as I hear about police brutality when its made public. I would think its only fair to also put on the news the brutality the police officer deals with and goes through on a daily basis. The true Equal. Not what the liberal media chooses to edit and take out of context. At least the show "cops" shows how often a suspect cries brutality and after watching the chase to arrest all on tape form beginning to end, and see the suspect scream brutality after we saw none. The to watch them beat there heads against the car window to try and get a bruise to get BACK at the arresting officers speaks for itself.

They day we loose all faith in our police is the day we lose our cities and towns and the U.S. Back to the dark ages.

[twinkiedooter]

21Boat - I guess you figured out that everyone in prison/jail is innocent. Yep.
Being a cop is not easy. Being a criminal is.

Excon - He got punched as he deserved it.

My question - Did they have it on video?

[21boat]

Yep is amazing how we spent all that money to build a jail for all those Innocent people. It seems to go along with, how many prisoners say " I found Jesus" I didn't know He was lost.
Or I was drunk when it happened or drug ed and its not my fault. I have yet to see someone force a person to drink alcohol or take the drug. It's the people that makes the drugs fault that put me in jail. The classic is. "I din't do nothin" , and its all on tape. And then its "Thats not me"

[JudyKayTee]

Yep is amazing how we spent all that money to build a jail for all those Innocent people. it seems to go along with, how many prisoners say " I found Jesus" I didn't know He was lost.
Or I was drunk when it happened or drug ed and its not my fault. I have yet to see someone force a person to drink alcohol or take the drug. Its the people that makes the drugs fault that put me in jail. The classic is. "I din't do nothin" , and its all on tape. And then its "Thats not me"

I'm an investigator and I hear the same thing all the time. "I didn't do it and if I did, I had good reason."

[twinkiedooter]

excon agrees: Why does this not surprise me, twink?

Ex - I like to surprise you! It's too much fun.

Well, was there a video tape of this guy punching himself in handcuffs?

[Jake2008]

Hello:

As you read your morning paper, you notice a complaint made by a prisoner about being punched by a cop while handcuffed. The cop denies it.

Who do you instinctively believe?

excon

I hate to say it, but instinct would probably tell me the cop punched him.

There was a time when I wouldn't have thought that, but not anymore.

[this8384]

I have to say I'd discredit the prisoner's recollection.

I think the whole issue here is that while some officers are very rotten(Hello, Frank Jude, Jr.! ), there are some who get the crap end of the deal because of it. Remember when your brother/sister disobeyed your parents, and you all got punished for it regardless of who started it? Yeah, like that.

Can you even imagine having to go to work everyday, do your job and then get told that someone's going to kill your kids just because you caught them selling crack? I'd probably punch the s.o.b. too...

Not all cops beat people. Not all cops are good. But I don't think it's right to throw them all together just because there's a couple d-bags out there in uniform who deserve to be handcuffed and punched in the face themselves.

[excon]

Hello again:

Let me tell you a story.

Good or bad, I've seen the inside of MANY jail cells. With ONE exception, they were as you'd expect them to be - cops who have no respect for the prisoners - and the prisoners having even less respect for the cops.

The one exception was the Pueblo County, Colorado jail.

It was the ONE place where prisoners RIGHT OFF THE BAT, were treated respectfully and politely... It was NOTICEABLY different.

Would you believe that none of those cops got spit on or lied about?? I think, to some extent, you would.

THAT is my point.

excon

[JudyKayTee]

Let's see - I've never abused anyone. I am only investigating liability matters. I understood when I worked for the Feds that I was the enemy. I was called names, verbally abused, on a regular basis.

As an investigator within the past three years I have been pushed backwards over a porch railing, had a gun pulled on me and had someone "hold" me in his house, waiting for the Police to arrive - needless to say, when the Police arrived, HE was arrested, not me.

So it doesn't follow that an abuser becomes abused and a non-abuser is never abused.

If you are in law enforcement (or quasi-law enforcement) you get tarred with the same brush as the good/bad/indifferent Officers.

[excon]

Hello again, Judy:

I'm not talking about individual officers. Hard as it may be to believe, I think there are many fine and honorable cops.

Not so hard to believe, is that I think there are many fine and honorable prisoners too.

But, I'm not talking about THEM.

I'm talking about a SYSTEM. I'm talking about a mindset within that system. I'm talking about MANAGEMENT of that system that seems to produce a different and desired result.

Finally, I'm talking about FIRST hand experience with that system, and the fact that it actually HAPPENED. It isn't pie in the sky, left leaning, liberal, soft on crime ideology.

Plus, I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts, that the Pueblo County sheriff didn't implement his system to protect the bad guys either. I'll bet he did it to protect his own. Funny how that works.

excon

[21boat]

It was the ONE place where prisoners RIGHT OFF THE BAT, were treated respectfully and politely.... It was NOTICEABLY different

excon. In that prison did you see much or if any difference from how the prisoners treated the guards and staff. I would be curious. I hope its yes.

It's a shame that there isn't a quick fix there. Our prisoners are so overcrowded and it seems to help create More Territorial problems.

I feel the sad part is TOO many children grow up seeing the crime on the streets and the 3rd world mentality of get or be gotten. They don't see enough respect or compassion and healthy morals. Ie the grown up child, Prisoner. Do you think if more respect is shown to the prisoners and stern politeness that the prisoners well get it. Or at lest a measurable amount to show it can or does work to make that difference. Or are they so used to aggresion that seems to be most all there seem to understand?

Or is has there been so much long term damage and attitude that its half hopeless?



Signed 21 Boat

If I Helped To Answer Your Question Please Rate My Answer

[excon]

Excon. In that prison did you see much or if any difference from how the prisoners treated the guards and staff. I would be curious. I hope its yes.

Hello again, 21:

Yes, absolutely. I thought I made that clear. That's not to say that some prisoners weren't disrespectful.. I'm sure there were plenty... But if there were, it WASN'T because the cop started it.

excon

[21boat]

Excon I just wanted to be sure and not assume. I'm glad to hear there is a glimmer of hope there. It sounds like that prison could be use a model for another approach on running a prison. That could be a positive step in the right direction

How's that for a Cheap Gov survey on prison protocol. Of course there is so much privatizing going on now.

Signed 21 Boat

If I Helped To Answer Your Question Please Rate My Answer

[jdgriffith18]

I would have to believe the cop

[ballengerb1]

When I gave that answer while being questioned as a prospective juror I got booted out of the court room. Good to know if you want out of jury duty.