[shazamataz]

I'm asking this question on behalf of my mother.
They have a patch of bush next to their house and a few weeks ago someone dumped a pregnant cat there.
We couldn't get anywhere near the cat to catch it so we called the RSPCA and they said that we had to hire a cat trap for $50 to catch it... we did that and it is one smart kitty, it didn't go anywhere near the trap.
My mum felt really sorry for the cat because it was starting to lose weight and she started leaving food out for it, trying to gain it's trust.
3 days ago the cat came out near their fence looking rather flat in the tummy... she had her kittens in the bushes somewhere. We have tried following the mother from a distance to find them but she knows we are there and won't go to them.
Now this afternoon we saw the cat over in the bush again kind of dragging it's back legs behind it and it's tail is completely limp, we don't know whether it was hit by a car or what.
We called the RSPCA back to see if they would come out to catch the cat and find and take the kittens but they just told us to hire that cat trap again... I don't know how they think 3 day old kittens are going to crawl into a cat trap.
Anyway my question is...
What do I do? I feel awful watching the poor thing in so much pain.
Can the RSPCA do that? Don't they have a duty to help sick animals? They have all the equipment and experience to catch her and hopefully save her.

[Silverfoxkit]

I am horrified at the lack of care and responsibility by the RSPCA! What are they there for if not to help animals in need, as this one clearly is! I have gained the trust of a colony of feral cats before, but that took me nearly a year and you don't have that sort of time! I'm struggling to put myself in your shoes and figure out what I would do and it's a tough situation.

My goal, I think, would be to find those babies! In her state she might not be able to take care of them well or at all anymore. Do you have a general idea of where her babies are? Newborns tend to be kind of loud when they get hungry so if you get close enough you might hear them. I'm found orphaned litters by ear before. If not then you may have to try and follow her, even if it takes hours for her to go there, maybe even set up a camera to record where she goes. This may not be the right thing to do, but this is what I would do. Find the babies and put the cat trap in the bushes where they are, then put the babies at the back of the trap. They are so you I don't think they would be able to move enough to spring it. Momma won't like this. She will want to move her babies, but I don't think you can move a baby without springing the trap, especially if she is dragging her legs, *hopefully* catching her. WATCH THAT TRAP! Though if you do this. If she manages to move them then you are unlikely to find them again. If she does not attempt to move them then you are probably going to have to raise these kittens by hand.

[starbuck8]

This makes me heartsick. You are trying to help, and all you are getting is a bandaid from the RSPCA. I agree that sometimes the SPCA in certain areas really drop the ball. They are the ones that are suppose to step up and help, yet their only solution is to put out a trap? That's crazy! I also don't understand why they made YOU pay!

Have they not come out at all? I would call them back and ask them what those letters stand for in RSPCA! Call them out on that! We know what they stand for... DO THEY? Tell them if they don't want to do their job, then you will contact other agencies and make them aware of their practices!

Have you tried to call Animal Control at your local police dept. They would be obligated by law to at least send a car out to check on the situation. I don't know where you live, but this is mandatory where I live, in Canada. I also am pretty sure this is also the case in the States. You said "R" SPCA. Are you maybe in the UK? There must be somewhere else other than the SPCA to call. If the UK is where you are, I might be able to ask my sister in-law for idea's on where to call.

Have you put food out for the mama? Both in the trap and in other places where you might be able to get to her? Maybe some sardines, or tuna? Something that has a strong scent. Also, how about some catnip, or maybe dangling some strings/toys on the bushes that may lure her out for a short break to play. I know she's more in moma mode right now, and likely hurt like you said, but it may be worth a try. I'm just grasping at straws to try and think of something. Maybe if you made a bed of some sort for her and her babies, and put some high scent food in it, maybe she might come there?

If I think of anything else, I will post it for you, but that's about all I can think of for now. God bless for being so kind and trying to help these kitties. I sure hope you can get them to come out, or be able to find the babies to lure the moma. She quite obviously needs some vet care.

Please keep us updated.

[linnealand]

Shaz, bless you for caring and trying to do the right thing. I know it's going to take some action on your part to follow through on plans beyond the RSPCA if they're really not willing to do more than they offered, but everything you try can help.

This situation calls for some good brainstorming. So far, I think there have been some very good ideas. I will add a couple of extra thoughts just in case they might be able to help in some way. I was also going to recommend trying to set up a number of nests with bedding and very strong smelling food for the mother and her kittens. Just try to make sure that the materials you use for bedding do not have the odor of other animals or a very strong human scent. In terms of what you can use, local supermarkets will usually give away their boxes for free. Boxes are good because they're free, they're disposable, they can be found in appropriate sizes, and they can provide some shelter too (of course, the best thing would be to put the boxes on their sides, not with the top up, and remove or intelligently tape down the flaps to prevent the boxes from accidentally shutting).

Do you have any idea whatsoever about the general direction or the area where the mother's nest might be? In the past, when we were looking for the possible owner of a stray cat (we never found any claimants, so we adopted her) and looking for someone's lost cat, on top of calling all of the local animal rescue organizations in our area, we also called our local radio station to use them as a resource. They were extremely helpful, and they sent out the messages we were hoping might get more people aware of the situations. It can't hurt to call your local radio station (if you have one) to find out if they can help you and send out your message, perhaps asking for people who would like to volunteer to find these kitties or to at least be on the lookout for them around their homes.

Another idea would be to put posters all around your neighborhood explaining the situation, asking people to be on the lookout for this cat and these kittens, and having them contact you with any information they might have.

You might even consider speaking to your local newspaper about this situation. You could get some more attention brought to these cats, and you might consider speaking to them about the situation your situation with the RSPCA. I'm with everyone in the heartache. I wish you, the mama cat and her kittens the best of luck. I really hope you can save them.

[Akoue]

This is such a gut-wrenching predicament. I'd like to thank Silver, Starby, and Linny for their excellent suggestions.

What makes this especially difficult is the fact that you have to avoid separating the mother from her babies, since without her they will quickly starve to death. At the same time, they may starve to death anyway since, if she is as badly injured as it sounds, it is unlikely she is going to be able to secure enough food for herself, let alone enough for them.

I am increasingly inclined to think that the best thing you can do for the time being is to try to provide her as much food as possible. This will allow her to forego the dangerous business of hunting and foraging for food, and will allow her to stay closer to her babies. Since she is badly injured, she needs as much rest and as little stress and strain as possible. It may be best, for the time being, to do everything you can to get food to her and to try, very slowly, to win her trust. Right now the babies are nursing and aren't ready for solid food. That will begin to change quickly. My hope is that you can help the mother to keep her strength up while she (hopefully) heals from her injury, while at the same time allowing her to begin to get used to you and trust you. This means that you'll have to be around, let her see you, but from a distance at first. With any luck, she will come to trust you and will bring her babies out for food where you can see them.

This will take some time, and we can only hope the mother's injuries don't prove fatal. If they do, the babies are almost certain to starve to death. I think you should avoid doing anything that will separate the mother from her litter or frighten to mother into moving the babies farther away from you. Again, ideally she will come to trust you and see you as a source of food and so gradually move her kittens closer to you. For this to happen, it is imperative that you not go hunting for the kittens, as this will lead the mother too see you as a threat to her babies.

Once you've seen the kittens and know how many there are, perhaps you can begin trying to find people willing to take one or more, thereby sparing them a shelter in which they may well end up being put to sleep.

I know this is a huge burden for you. I have been there a few times myself, although never where the mother was badly injured. I can't adequately express my gratitude for the care and concern and you taken regarding this poor mother and her babies. I wish you the very best of luck and hope for an outcome that sees all of these cats in loving homes.

All the best, to you and to them.

[rex123]

I know what you mean, the SPCA by my house is no better. We've asked countless times when we were going through a rough time financially, with some possible financial help with getting rex neutered, and again when we got his needles. Both times they were appalled, that we had asked.

Also when my cousins cats had kittens, they wouldn't help out either. I mean, many families around here sadly kill unwanted kittens or puppies and the SPCA doesn't help for they won't even take them...

[Akoue]

I know what you mean, the SPCA by my house is no better. We've asked countless times when we were going through a rough time financially, with some possible financial help with getting rex neutered, and again when we got his needles. Both times they were appauled, that we had asked.

Also when my cousins cats had kittens, they wouldn't help out either. I mean, many families around here sadly kill unwanted kittens or puppies and the SPCA doesn't help for they wont even take them...

While I'm sure this isn't true in every case, it has been my experience over the years that most animal shelters, and the organizations that run them (SPCA, Humane Society, what have you) are arguably no better for the animals kept in them than is life as a stray. And this is a difficult thing for me to say as I am strongly opposed to leaving animals to roam the streets. This is why I so rarely advise people on these boards to take an animal to the shelter. They are, again in my experience, far from humane.

I find a similarly sad state of affairs to prevail with the veterinary care most animals receive--through no fault of their "owners" (those of you who know me know that I hate that word in this context). The standard of veterinary care, in the US at least, is mostly appallingly low. I don't say this in order to dissuade people from taking their furry loved ones to the vet, but rather to register the fact that all to often the care animals receive even from reputable vets is not significantly better than the care they would receive were they not to be taken to the vet. Again I emphasize that this has been my experience; and I hope that I am very much in the minority on this score. But it should, I think, be a matter of more scandal than it is the often very poor training that vets receive and the very low standards to which many of them hold themselves.

So I guess this post has turned out to be more rant than anything. I am just unsurprised that the RSPCA was not of more, or any, help--even though I am profoundly disappointed. My own view is that these organizations do far less good than their advertising suggests and all too often, in situations like that faced by the OP (and indeed in even less extreme circumstances) we are, each of us, on our own to do what we can to help these animals and ameliorate their suffering. For as often as we urge posters to ask vets to make payment arrangements with them, we know full well that it is the very rare vet indeed who will make such an accommodation. Given what vets charge for even the most basic services, it is too often the case than unless one has several thousands of dollars tucked away in an emergency vet bill fund, veterinary care is simply not an option. And relatively few people--people who are perfectly responsible pet owners--can afford that. Especially these days. Sad to say that many pet owners who aren't affluent live in constant fear of their dog or cat taking ill or being injured because they know what that will almost inevitably mean. I remember being a poor grad student and living in the grip of that fear. And yet, means testing would be adopters is no solution because that would only guarantee that far more animals would be put to death than already are. As it is the numbers are crushing.

Okay, rant over. Thanks for obliging me everyone. I feel better to have got that off my chest.

Now I need a smoke and a stiff drink. Is 8:30 in the morning too early to start drinking Scotch? Anyone? Good, I didn't think so.

[shazamataz]

Thank you to everyone for your suggestions and comments, there are some really good ideas.
After much debating with my mum we are going to take Akous advice and stay away for now, We are pretty sure they are actually inside a big blackberry thicket which we would have to partially cut down to be able to get inside, and that would stress her out for sure.
I'm a bit of a newbie with newborn kittens... how long does it take before they would be able to walk, or come out of their hiding spot?

After reading we are going to make up a nest out of an old cardboard box and put a blanket in it and put it near the thicket. Mum just bought normal cat food but I'll make sure she gets some sardines or something to put next to it.

She came out of her hiding spot this morning and she actually looks a little better, she was actually walking... albeit very slowly and her tail still hangs limp but at least it is an improvement which I am thankful for.

I like the idea of calling our local paper also, maybe that will kick the RSPCA into gear when they get some bad rep from the paper, or even if I just call them and threaten to go to the papers.

Oh and thanks for the kind offer starbuck but I'm in Australia :)

[shazamataz]

Update!

Mums house has like a storage bit underneath that's like a concrete wall with a couple of little openings along it (the house is on a bit of a hill) and the mum cat has brought the kittens up one by one up under the house... we saw her carrying one of them in there and when she went back out into the bush we snuck down and had a peek... there were 5 adorable little kittens, 4 grey and white and one black and white. All looked very healthy. We had an old whelping box under there so we put some blankets in there and moved the kittens into the box. A few hours later we looked under the house and the mum cat was sitting in the box so I hoping that's a sign that she is going to stay there. Last night mum told me she put some food out near the entrance and sat back about 10 meters and the mum was a little skittish but she still came out with my mum sitting there and eat the food.

There isn't much more improvement on her legs/back problem. She still can't walk properly but if something scares her she can still get up a bit of speed.

Now that we know where the kittens are what do you guys think we should do?
I know the proper thing to do would be to take them to the RSPCA but I'm worried because they are so little they will put them down. Should we take the kittens in... socialize them and try to find homes? Would the RSPCA help with vaccinating and worming etc because to be honest we really can't afford to do it :confused:

Any help/insight/opinions appreciated

[Akoue]

Update!

Mums house has like a storage bit underneath that's like a concrete wall with a couple of little openings along it (the house is on a bit of a hill) and the mum cat has brought the kittens up one by one up under the house... we saw her carrying one of them in there and when she went back out into the bush we snuck down and had a peek... there were 5 adorable little kittens, 4 grey and white and one black and white. All looked very healthy. We had an old whelping box under there so we put some blankets in there and moved the kittens into the box. A few hours later we looked under the house and the mum cat was sitting in the box so I hoping that's a sign that she is going to stay there. Last night mum told me she put some food out near the entrance and sat back about 10 meters and the mum was a little skittish but she still came out with my mum sitting there and eat the food.

There isn't much more improvement on her legs/back problem. She still can't walk properly but if something scares her she can still get up a bit of speed.

Now that we know where the kittens are what do you guys think we should do?
I know the proper thing to do would be to take them to the RSPCA but I'm worried because they are so little they will put them down. Should we take the kittens in... socialize them and try to find homes? Would the RSPCA help with vaccinating and worming etc because to be honest we really can't afford to do it :confused:

Any help/insight/opinions appreciated

The best thing you can do now is to try to keep the cats safe and feed them. Kittens shouldn't be separated from their mother before the age of eight weeks. They need to be with her, to nurse and be taught by her. And they need the companionship of one another in order to be properly socialized.

I would encourage you to keep doing what you're doing: Let them stay near you, so that you can keep an eye on them. This means going slow, since if the mother gets spooked she'll just take the kittens away. Feed them, so that the mom doesn't have to hunt or scavenge (which she is clearly in no shape to do). She'll get used to you and your mom and as the kittens get older and stronger she'll be okay with you spending more time with them.

As I say, if you separate them now the kittens will suffer mightily for it. Try to keep them together and healthy until the kittens are at least eight weeks. Then you can take them to a shelter or, even better, find them homes. I would starting working now on finding people who may be willing to adopt one or more of them, since any that end up in the shelter are more than likely going to be killed. That goes for the mom too, since she is injured and an adult, and people will be especially reluctant to adopt her. It would be a tragedy if any of these cats had to end up in a steel cage and then end up being killed (in a pretty brutal way--euthanasia at a shelter isn't a peaceful and painless death, and life in a shelter is just a form of psychological, and often physical, torture).

Thanks you for keeping us posted. And thank you for helping this struggling family. You and your mom are doing a good thing.

Ps: Try to make sure that they have plenty of fresh water. Kittens can die of dehydration very quickly.

[shazamataz]

Thank you for replying Akoue. They are pretty safe where they are so we will leave them there. Hopefully the mother will warm to us eventually, considering we couldn't get within a mile of her a week ago and now she eats fairly close to us it's a big improvement.
Originally I wanted to get them taken away by the shelter but thinking about it, the odds of them looking after the mothers leg and bottle feeding 5 kittens isn't good, so when they are a bit older I will take your advice and try to find homes ourselves. I'll ask around and in a few weeks I can put up some flyers :)
Sorry to be a pain, neither of us are real experienced with kittens and I just don't want anything bad to happen to them. It's not their fault their old owner so cruel.

[Emily94]

The mom will be skittish at first, but since she didn't abandon the kittens after you touched them, she knows your not dangerous(or she would have disowned or killed the kittens if she thought you would hurt her or them), she also brought them closer to you. So as long as you don't do anything to scare her it won't take long for her to trust you, but keep an eye on the kittens,under a house is not the cleanest place and that could cause infection, also watch when they become older and leave the shelter, a lot of animals wouldn't mind killing them... :(. So just do what your doing and keep a good eye:)

[shazamataz]

Update again!
The kittens are now about 5 weeks old.
The mother has had a complete turn around. She lets us pet her and touch her kittens and rubs against our legs!

I'll get some pictures of the kittens because they are adorable! We have been handling them every day since the mother has allowed us to be with them and they are friendly and very playful, we should have no trouble finding homes for them.

The mothers health has improved. She no longer walks tentatively although her tail still hangs limp. She doesn't appear to be in any pain and we are hoping that we will be able to coax her into a crate with food soon to get her proper treatment.

Thank you to everyone who helped me out with this problem :)

[starbuck8]

That is so cool Shaz! I'm so glad the mother took to you, and let you take care of her babes, and so nice to hear she is doing better! It's great to hear good news around here. Bless you for caring so much about them and helping them all of this time!

[morgaine300]

I'm glad I got myself to read through all this before replying, because now I can just say I'm glad this seems to be working out OK in the end. I only had one comment anyway, which I will still make... just in case something does happen to the mother at this point, you might check and see if you can get kitten milk where you are. Hopefully it's a moot point.

Bless you for caring and trying so hard!

[morgaine300]

Akoue - wow, seems you've got some pretty terrible shelter experience. I don't see anything like that around here. We have two fairly close county shelters, and while living in a cage isn't all that great, they do take care of them properly and actually let them live for a reasonable time (for adoption) before PTS, unlike a lot of places. There's a bad stray problem around here, but perhaps not as bad as some other places, or maybe we just have more facilities, but people are always surprised they are kept alive as long as they are. If they do PTS, there isn't anything bad about it - done correctly, the animal should just peacefully go to sleep. I don't know what's going on that you're seeing.

I don't know what's with that RSCPA. Since it's Australia I have no clue what's happening there. But it seems there ought to be something governing that which could be reported. And I'd want my $50 back! I still like the local newspaper idea. :-)

I do, however, have to agree with your vet rant. :-) I run a group online and am a member of some others, so I hear a lot of things about what happens at vet's. They seem to be OK at general care, but not too cool on special care or sick cats. I've found the caregivers online to know a heck of a lot more about certain subjects. I went through six vets before settling on one that I like. We don't always agree of course, but he's pretty cool and isn't a control freak - he's always cool with me making the final decisions on everything and trusting I'll do the right thing.

[shazamataz]

Thanks starbuck :) I know she's just a stray but she's become part of the family now! Poor mum sits down in the driveway for hours so she can get used to her. It has definitely paid off though, hopefully she will be able to come inside eventually. Mum also wants to keep her and get her spayed eventually. (she is shocking for taking in animals, they have a whole zoo there :) )

morgaine300 - yep we got them some kitten milk from a pet store to take the strain off the mother as she was losing weight. They are having a saucer of kitten milk and some mashed up tuna flavor kitten food. They haven't quite mastered dry foods yet. Thanks for the advice though, a lot of people wouldn't think of it :)

I've actually been working on a letter to the local paper but I've re-written it about a thousand times. I want to get my point across but I want to be careful about bad mouthing the RSPCA as I don't need a big law suit.

[shazamataz]

You guys aren't going to believe this...

We now have a total of 13 cats!!

We have no idea where these one's came from but another female cat has bought her litter up under our house!
There are 6 kittens in total, they look a little older than the ones we already have and they are completely FERAL, you can't get within a mile of them or they dart under the house.

To make matters worse the council is building a road next to the house so there is noise from excavators and trucks (I'm guessing this drove them out of the bush)

*sigh* I have no idea what we are going to do with these ones as they cannot be re-homed.

The 5 original kittens are going strong and are extremely playful... they love people because we have been playing with them every day and feeding them. We have spoken to a local petshop (one my moms friend owns) and they will take the kittens and give them homes once they are old enough.
We didn't want to take them to the shelter as they simply do not have the room there and any animals not adopted within a certain time get put to sleep.

We are getting the mother spayed and keeping her. She is a gem, and a real fighter!

[Silverfoxkit]

I'm glad to hear that the kittens are okay. Now I have tamed older feral kittens but that took me nearly a year to do. Its not easy but its possible. You need to at least try and catch them so they can be spayed and neutered. Or else that whopping number 13 is going to multiply itself a few times!

[shazamataz]

Thanks Silver, I thought it was going to be hopless but if we hold out we might just be able to tame them :)

Yes, spaying is going to have to be a must! Hopefully the shelter will help us out with that as we can't afford to get a total of 8 cats altered! :eek: