[Grayfox]

Hi everyone,I'm writing this for myself and for anyone who feels they have the time to read it. For the last few days I've been looking at posts and reading about people's relationships and problems and I must say I'm very surprised but in a way comfortable. I'm not sure why I didn't expect a lot of similar situations, but to be very honest, mine is nothing compared to those I've read about. This whole thing is almost pointless, I know what steps to take but its a lot easier for me to spend time trying to give good advice then to spend time taking my own advice. Therefore, any and all words are appreciated and noted.

I haven't dated many girls in my life, a lot of the time I was just shy, but honestly... I knew what I wanted in a girl and didn't want to date just to have fun because something seemed so wrong and pointless about that. I finally met a girl during a period of insecurity and loneliness in my life.This was my first relationship. She was everything I could've wanted and more, more than I would've ever expected. However, due to my lack of experience and overall facsination with this new relationship and girl, we moved way too fast. I was very cautious toward the beginning because I cared about her and I wanted to take the right respectful steps. However, on the first date she kissed me in a way that was very provocative. One thing led to another and we were mildly fooling around. However we both confessed to be in love with each other. We continued to go out and were very serious about each other but very immature. We had both found somebody we never thought could've existed and we were overtaken with each other. We talked all the time, and saw each other about 3 times a week. We never spent a day without making some sort of contact with each other. She was by nature an extremely sweet individual, the type that writes you notes with little pictures to make you feel better. However she was also slightly needy and didn't really seem to blatantly express her opinions or views on anything. She'd rarely just begin a conversation about something she'd thougth about just for the hell of it. However, she did agree with me about a lot of things although we had our differences.
For some reason unknown to me, I began to feel like she'd always be there and no matter what I did she'd still want to be with me. I am not sure if this made me respect her less but I am sure that it caused me to become selfish. I thought I was happy but I don't believe I was. I believed I loved her, but at the same time, I wanted so much more out of her even though she was the most considerate person id ever met. I did a lot of things to make her happy, but they were mostly on special occasions. I don't think I gave her want she needed on a day to day basis. The little things, like what movie to watch, or going to feed the ducks. Things that I used to think were so sweet began to frighten me and seemed immature and thus I allowed them less. At first I lived for her, but I soon began to want more and did things to try to make myself happy like play video games and sometimes they carried in to our relationship. I got her involved in one of them and it led to a very serious situation in which she had given a little too much information to a guy. At the time I had been talking to a childhood friend of mine who was a girl, and my girlfriend claimed that the only reason she let the information slip is that she was worried about me being interested in other girls and she felt she needed a guy to talk to. However, this information didn't fall under the category of personal help it was more personal in general. As a result I lost a lot of trust in her and broke it off. She cried harder than I had ever thought possible and called incessantly saying she was sorry and that she loved me, bleeding every detail of the situation at my request. I agreed to get back with her but still didn't fully trust her.
Now I realize that even though I knew she didn't, I felt like she owed me something and I put myself on a higher pedestal than her. Every now and then I would lie to her about something just to see her reaction, normally it had to do with another guy or something. I tested her becausei didn't trust her to trust herself. I was sick and absolutely diluted to the point that I couldn't think rationally anymore. We had a lot of good times as the future progressed but I became bitter and confused about what I wanted in life. I often felt like I was the only one who considered the future and that she was just living in the moment, professing false love and sucking me into believing her and putting my heart on the line. I didn't want to allow myself to make a fatal mistake so I broke it off a few times in attempts to understand myself and my feelings, but I never stayed consistent. I wanted to feel what it would be like to end it, but I didn't really want it to fully end. I exposed her to a lot she had never seen before and normally would've never considered. Such as explicit movies or terms. She was innocent, but before we had gotten together she had been dating the wrong guys simply because she wanted someone to love, she just didn't understand. Not that I was the right guy, but I wanted a relationship, not a whore.
She became equally argumentative after a lot of time, and we had little fights off and on, I had allowed a lot of pride to build up and sometimes found it hard to realize I was wrong about something. During all of this, we had a lot of good days, but I began to wonder if I was being too sexual with her. Meanwhile her twin sister is dating guy after guy, doing sexual stuff with all of them and getting hurt over and over. Her dad had cheated on her mom they get a divorce and the mom runs off with some other guy( total loser) after the dad attempts to work it out. Now her dad, having not been involved in her daily life is running a house previously run by her mom and is changing a lot of things. Her feelings are constantly unclear, she says things from time to time but never really has any burst of emotion, other than the constant crying that preceded the beginning of our relationship (she'd cry over the sillyest of things). After about a year and 7 months of being together, she began to change, she wasn't as sweet, and most of the crying had turned into anger. I broke up with her again because I thought she had become too involved in myspace and rapidly been changing. I guess I just wanted to see the old girlfriend I knew, and the only way was to see her reaction again. Although I felt more prepared to end it this time or at least go on a break. Now I might add that I have a very stable family life and I am very lucky. Anyway, this time I had ended it in a way that was nice and not vindictive sounding. So she accepted it, and I felt good about her reaction. I realized later that it wasn't what I wanted and I tried to get her back underr the condition that she'd get rid of her myspace (early on in the relationship she had agreed to delete her myspace if I deleted mine, but mine was used for connections to old friends in japan, but I was still in the wrong).
Due to my sadness and the potential realization that she was prepared to end the relationship, I quickly deleted my myspace and attempted to get her to do the same. Eventually she agreed she would after a very dramatic night in which I saw the old girlfriend I knew, she cried and begged me to not care about things like that. However, a few days later she hadn't deleted her myspace and said she felt we should go on a break. This break hadn't really happened because she wanted to talk to me still. She later finally started to call me less and I began to feel the pain of misssing her. So I attempted to repair the relationship again and found that she wanted to end it for a while and possibly permanently. I have grown more and more convinced that she was very serious about this decision, we were a year apart ( me beign older) and I feel she gained some maturity. We still talked , kissed, and even participated in a couple of benefits. Now we've agreed to stop most of it, although we still talk. We have the same job, so I can't avoid seeing her, and have given up attempting to prevent communication considering even when the job ends for this summer, I will see her everyday in school. I spent a lot of time thinking about everythign, and came to the conclusion that there was and probably still is something wrong with me. I cried many nights thinking about what I put her through and what kind of person I had allowed myself to turn into, but I think I've permanently scared her away, not to mention all the stress she's going through, she probably feels she doesn't need a boyfriend. HOwever she said she wants to date other people, even though I doubt she will or would want me to. Its been a few weeks and I have never suffered so much. I wouldn't have it any other way, I deserve to suffer and it's the only way I would've changed a lot about myself. I want a second chance on this relationship for its sake, to say that we both changed and tried to work it out as changed people, so even if it does end it can end on a better note. Please forgive me for the length, but I thank you tremendously if you actually put the time in to read this incoherent blob of thought and regret. If I made any inconsistancies or failed to provide any information, let me know. Any opinions are most appreciated!

[chuff]

You need to not date anybody and find out first what it is you want in a woman. Second you need to quit beating yourself up. Just stop. It's depressing and the truth is it's never going to help you get her back.

The problem with trying to go back with someone you've already been with is you always bring the baggage with you even if you both agree not to. It will always pop up and both of you will always be thinking about it even if you don't say anything about it.

Give yourself permission to grow as a person and learn from this experience.

[talaniman]

I think you know yourself, and what the deal is very well. You know this is going to hurt for a while, but don't just sit and worry about it. The time will go faster if your enjoying it. Of course you've figured that out or am I giving you too much credit. No one knows what the future holds but for now work on you and get a better perspective in 6 months or a year. Time will clear the head.

[Wildcat21]

You really need to learn about balance in a relationship... you need to learn to pull back when she pulls back.

You kept LOWERING her interest level. Ever time she pulled back - you came on stronger... big mistake.

I don't think yo ugave her any space to breath and be herself.

This why you date A LOT - you learn this stuff.

Women HATE, resent, take for granted - guys who come on too strong. Hate it. Huge turnoff.

You really need to learn about SPACE.

Leave this women alone for at leas t2 months - no contact - if you're still trying to pursue her.

[Grayfox]

The advice has been very helpful, I thought id also add that she is very insistant that even if I date someone or she dates someone that we talk still. I'm not sure if that's the right course of action, she calls me multiple times daily, not to mention she still hugs me at work and kisses me goodbye. I'm not sure if she's even coping with her actions, or if all I put her through was making her cope through our relationship and this is easier for her. Are there any particular steps I should take in my current situation?

[talaniman]

Red flags going up-She's trying to keep your friendship but stay close to you, and keep you close to her. I don't like it when it seems like someone is stringing you along for whatever reason. I could be wrong but I advise you to keep a distance, and keep your eyes open. Don't be so available to her. It might be just me but..

[Grayfox]

No I understand completely, don't think she wants to give me up as a person. I am prepared to be her friend, but I don't think something like that is appropriate at this point in time,especially considering I am continuing to attempt to diminish the feelings I have for her, and identify why I have them.

[Wildcat21]

Don't become her friend - you're her backup plan...

NO ONE SHOULD EVER BE THE BACKUP PLAN.

That huggin gand kissing is weird -stay away from her.

[Grayfox]

Lol, I knew I was going to hear the backup line eventually. Its something I've thought about. I think to a certain degree everyone becomes a backup plan after a relationship. Many consider getting back with that person later on when the two have changed, or at least becoming friends. I have pretty much stated that if we start dating other people, I wouldn't want to talk anymore, for the future of my relationships and my current stability. Should I tell her I don't want to talk anymore now? I myself don't contact her, I am not easily manipulated, but I have expressed interest in this relationship working out. She's not thinking about the relationship hardly at all, let alone other relationships. She seems to just want to sort things out in her own life, and perhaps she wants me there as friendly support, without the difficulties of managing a relationship. Even in our relationship, we were best friends. I'm not sure what to do.

[Wildcat21]

Yes. Give it back her - tell YOU need SAPCE and TIME alone...

I bet she won't like that - who cares.

Have a spine in this going forward.

No more huggin gand kissing - that's weird.

[K_3]

If I read your post right you say you broke up with her through out your relationship just to see how she would react. I took it more than once. How many times? This is not a good sign of being mature enough to handle a relationship. You have some good insights to yourself, but I think you are missing how you were playing games with her. You admit to lying to her just to get her reaction. It does not matter what the other person does, when you lie it is on you. There has to be trust in a relationship. You say she was not consistent in your relationship, but how about you? You would lie to her to get a reaction, break up with her often to get a reaction or see how you would feel without her. You may find her actions as a yo yo, but how has yours been? This may not be what you wanted to hear, but you sound as though you really want to get it together, only hearing it was her fault is not going to help you. You certainly played a game which may have caused her to feel like she was on quicksand in your relationship and did not want to continue that way. She is having a hard time because she cares about you, but can not continue with your breaking up with her on a whim.

This is just a thought, maybe I read your post differently, no one else seem to see it that way.

Don't become her friend - you're her backup plan.....

NO ONE SHOULD EVER BE THE BACKUP PLAN.

That huggin gand kissing is weird -stay away from her.

I agree with you 99% of the time. Did you read how many times he broke up with her through their relationship just to see how it felt or what her reaction would be? That's not cool.

[Wildcat21]

I kind of did - but it was hard to follow. Yes - some imaturity issues here. Yu don't play with someone like that.

[Grayfox]

This is exactly what I wanted to hear. It plays into what I believed was the truth ,but wasn't sure. Its so nice to know that others identify the same problems and give the same diagnoisis. I think I realized what I was doing wrong, but was too afraid to admit it. Now, those decisions seem absolutely foreign to me. However, the consequences are the consequences and I am very prepared to deal with them in hopes that they will make me a better person.

[K_3]

I kind of did - but it was hard to follow. Yes - some imaturity issues here. Yu don't play with someone like that.

Hey, that's the wildcat, I know it was hard to follow, I had to go back a couple of times. Thank you, I cannot comment on you, got to hand it around

You may talk to her about all of that. Not that you two need to get back together, but get some honesty out there and see if you can't get some things straight in your mind and hers. It is as though the both of you are floating around in space.:) Neither one trusting the other. I don't think either of you are too ready for a relationship.

[Wildcat21]

Going forward - don't play with a women's emotions like that - be a good guy.

[Grayfox]

So wait, being a jerk to a certain point is OK, but I should be a good guy overall? Im a tad bit confused, like I said, the whole nice guy-jerk stuff has got me mixed up.

[Skell]

No you never be a jerk.
There is a difference between being a Jerk, a nice guy and good guy.

Just be yourself OK? But don't completely surrender yourself to people ealry on. You need to tread carefully and slowly. Don't come on too strong.

But being a jerk won't work.

Your post was hard to follow but I got the same thoughts out of it as K3. You were continually breaking up with her to get a reaction and then getting back with her.

This is ridiculous. You have some issues right now that you need to work on. I see you have come a long way already but I really think you need to try as hard as possible to sut contact with this girl.
At least until you understand and know yourself a little better.

She has no right to request that you 2 always remain friends. It might sound nice in theory but it just can't work.

Leave her alone and work on yourself. Learn about yourself! Be comfortable about who you are!

Good luck!

[Skell]

A good guy is his own man. Confident and comfortable with who he is. He has a spine and knows what he wants and who he is!
He is happy with or without his partner. He loves himself as much as he loves his partner. But he is considerate about his partners feelings and is generally a person who everyone enjoys to be around.

A jerk is a selfish, unstable, immature person who only loooks after oneself with no regard for their partner. This migt be attractive for a little while but eventually it will en in pain.

A nice guy completely surrenders to their partner and is generallt not confident on themselves and clings onto a relationship to keep them happy. They are so insecure they treat their partner as if they are there life. It is great in the begginning but this clingyness will wear thin with their partner eventually..

The above is sort of a roough overview of Good guy, Jerk and Nice Guy. At least what I can gather.

Most importantly YOU should just be YOU. But first you have to work out who you are and be comfortable and confident in yourself.

At the moment I don't see that!

[valinors_sorrow]

Jerk/Bad Girl = unavailable, shut down, remote to the point of self-centered, often found demanding space, poor communications, mixed signals, often the chasee.
Nice guy/girl = codependent, needy, to the point of other-centered, often pesters beyond toleration, plays the victim card, can't be without a partner, often the chaser.
It usually works better to call it by its real name. These can fit either gender and neither has a well developed sense of self.
Usually the unavailable hook up with codependents and it works, for a while...
Healthy relationships require a good balance of interdependence, where there is some overlap but not too much -- which yields a him, a her and an us with good boundary definition and a sense of cooperation, even negotiation.

[Skell]

Val got it here.

BALANCE is the key. But balance only comes when both parties are completely comfortable with who they are!

Otherwise one party will beceom clingy and needy and it will push the other away!