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    NCDad's Avatar
    NCDad Posts: 65, Reputation: 2
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    #1

    Feb 20, 2009, 09:57 AM
    Divorced Dad and College
    I am a divorced Dad of 3 teens (Girl 17, Boy 16, and Girl 13). After the divorce (going on 3yrs) I was amputated from the lives of my children. Despite my best efforts to maintain a parental role in their lives, I am still treated as an outsider and have very little contact with my children. I now face the dilemma of College. My oldest will be going to college next fall and has chosen to attend a 4 year university with tuition of $15,000 a year. I have not been included on any of the planning for her college education and have not been given any of the details. Unfortunately there is no college fund as my ex chose to be a stay at home Mom when the kids were young and it took all of my income to support the family. I am aware that she has applied for grants but was denied and she has applied for scholarships but has yet to hear anything on those. I am still paying a considerable amount of child support and additionally pay half of the kid’s uninsured medical expenses. I would like to help my daughter with college expenses as much as I can, but I am reluctant to take on additional debt in the form of loans. I know if I refuse to do this it will be used to further alienate me from my children, so I am torn as to what to do. I am 46 years old and I live from pay check to pay check as it is, if I take on the responsibility of funding half of my children’s college education it will take me the rest of my life to repay the loans. I feel obligated as a parent to pay for college, but due to the circumstances I do not feel I have the means to do so. I am sure there are many of you who are in the same situation. Can anyone offer any advice or input?
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #2

    Feb 20, 2009, 10:12 AM

    What do the terms of your Divorce REQUIRE you to do? Other than that it's what you can and want to do.
    NCDad's Avatar
    NCDad Posts: 65, Reputation: 2
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    #3

    Feb 20, 2009, 02:53 PM

    Payment for college is not addressed in divorce decreee or divorce settlement.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #4

    Feb 20, 2009, 03:05 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by NCDad View Post
    Payment for college is not addressed in divorce decreee or divorce settlement.

    Then it's your choice.
    GeorgeMcCasland's Avatar
    GeorgeMcCasland Posts: 42, Reputation: -5
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    #5

    Mar 21, 2009, 01:30 PM
    North Carolina is not a state that requires you to pay for college, so if it is not so ordered in your decree, you are not obligated, thus the decision is yours. This is not to say that she may attempt a modification. Remind your children the college and universities are not their only choice. Blue collar jobs pay as much or more that those getting four year degrees. After just one year of training, a plumber has a starting income of $60,000 and there's a shortage of them.

    Non-Custodial Parents College Expense Obligation

    As for them being alienated from you, there are always ways to resolve those, though now it is a little late, but you could sue the mother for Parental Alienation.

    Fathers & Families
    Parental Alienation and Parental Alienation Syndrome Home Page
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    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #6

    Mar 21, 2009, 02:14 PM

    Generally state schools cost far less for state residents. So I would investigate the cost of tuition for a state school, maybe even a local one that would not require dorming. I would then offer your daughter to pay the costs associated with that school. If she chooses to go to a more expensive school, then she will need to come up with the difference.

    If they try to lay a guilt trip on you, turn the tables. Tell them, you have tried to be a part of their lives since the divorce, but your efforts have been rebuffed. Your offer is the best you can do, take it or leave it.
    rockerchick_682's Avatar
    rockerchick_682 Posts: 496, Reputation: 72
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    #7

    Mar 21, 2009, 02:20 PM
    I'm a child of divorce. I went from one parent to the other and eventually didn't talk to my dad for a long long time. Keep trying to stay in contact, it's hard, but your children WILL grow up and realize their mistakes. My dad never gave up and now we are very close. If you can't afford it, then don't pay for it. Let your children know that you would love to help, but you can barely afford living for yourself and their child support.
    GeorgeMcCasland's Avatar
    GeorgeMcCasland Posts: 42, Reputation: -5
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    #8

    Mar 21, 2009, 02:25 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by rockerchick_682 View Post
    I'm a child of divorce. I went from one parent to the other and eventually didn't talk to my dad for a long long time. Keep trying to stay in contact, it's hard, but your children WILL grow up and realize their mistakes. My dad never gave up and now we are very close. If you can't afford it, then don't pay for it. Let your children know that you would love to help, but you can barely afford living for yourself and their child support.
    I agree with the above and should have added it to my post. My own girls were alienated from me, but now I'm the one they call, instead of the mother. I now live in a nursing home. My oldest is moving me closer to her so that she can care for me.:)
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,301, Reputation: 7692
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    #9

    Mar 21, 2009, 02:28 PM

    First do you have to continue to pay child support while the child is in college, if so, you, the mother and the child should sit down and discuss what is going to happen.

    Also what was the days you had for visit, did you keep seeing them on your weekends, did you keep seeing them on other days of visits.

    Next why were they refused grants, normally the only reason would be very high family household income
    NCDad's Avatar
    NCDad Posts: 65, Reputation: 2
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    #10

    Mar 21, 2009, 02:48 PM
    Thanks to all for your input. To update you a bit, after I moved away last November my kids immediately started communicating with me. They started e-mailing which was odd because up until then they refused to respond my e-mails. Anyway, long story short, I had them to my home for Christmas and we had a real nice time, just like old times. Since then we keep in touch weekly via e-mail and texting, I see them when they choose to work me into their schedules which is not very often, but it is much better than before. I realize they are teenagers and have full social agendas, I just keep inviting them and giving them opportunities to see me, the choice is theirs, but at least they are required to make the choice. Years down the road they will have to look back and realize the choice was theirs and they declined, I was there for them all along. Anyway back to the college thing. My daughter made the choice (without consulting me) to go to East Carolina, which fortunately is a Sate college. Even so, it is still $15,000 a year! That is like what a Car costs, for just one year! Anyway it is what it is, I had and have no input into the matter. She plans to be a nurse and I support that and she is desperate to go away somewhere that is a good distance away. I understand that too given how here Mom is and the relationship they have. So I met with my daughter and we talked about it, or I should say I talked about it, she mostly listened. I explained the situation and told her that even though I didn't have the money, I wanted to help her as much as I could. I told her I feel like I can pay a third of the yearly cost ($5,000). Even if I have to take on an extra job, surely I can find something to do to make an extra $5,000. I told her I felt like she should get a third in student loans and her Mom should make up the other third. I told her we would have to take it a year at a time and hopefully it will all work out. The fun part will be two years from now when her brother goes to college. Then I will have to figure out how to pay for two, oh and there is a third one three years later. Oh the joy of parenthood!. Wish me luck!
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #11

    Mar 22, 2009, 07:40 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeMcCasland View Post
    I agree with the above and should have added it to my post. My own girls were alienated from me, but now I'm the one they call, instead of the mother. I now live in a nursing home. My oldest is moving me closer to her so that she can care for me.:)

    Maybe if you don't refer to the mother of your children as "the mother" and referred to her as "their mother" your life would be easier.

    So your oldest child is taking you out of the nursing home and you are moving in with her?

    Good for her - that's a rough, rough "job" and I give her credit for it.

    The question was about college and tuition, not persuading the child NOT to go to College and become a plumber. I have respect for blue collar jobs. That's rough work BUT that is not what this child wants or has planned.
    NCDad's Avatar
    NCDad Posts: 65, Reputation: 2
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    #12

    Mar 22, 2009, 08:28 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck View Post
    First do you have to continue to pay child support while the child is in college, if so, you, the mother and the child should sit down and discuss what is going to happen.

    Also what was the days you had for visit, did you keep seeing them on your weekends, did you keep seeing them on other days of visits.

    Next why were they refused grants, normally the only reason would be very high family household income
    Chuck, not to be disrespectful, but the answer to your question is to read my previous posts. My visitation was left to the discretion of the kids, I was cut off from my kids for almost three years and had NO visitation. It was only after I moved away this past Nov that they started communicating with me again... I have three children so yes I will be paying child support for two while my oldest is in college, in two years another will go to college so I'll have two in college and still paying child support for one. The whole problem is that I can't talk to their mother, all she wants to do is beat me up verbally, put me down and belittle me and try to suck every last penny I have out of me. She would be completely happy for me to live under a bridge and have my whole paycheck deposited directly into her account every month. Grants were denied because of our income. My ex is a nurse and she makes very good money, much more than I do. I do okay on a gross basis, but after taxes and child support I only see half of what I gross. My daughter has applied for many scholarships but hasn't heard anything on them yet.
    Jake2008's Avatar
    Jake2008 Posts: 6,721, Reputation: 3460
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    #13

    Mar 22, 2009, 09:32 AM
    I have to say NCDad, that I admire you for your tenacity and your creative ways to keep a solid connection with your children via email and text. (I have tried to text and would rather stick needles in my eyes! Lol)

    I think it is safe to assume that communication with your ex wife regarding college expenses probably isn't going to get any better, and without that cooperation from her, I cannot think of a single thing you haven't done to ensure that college takes place regardless.

    It would be easy to just give up, yet you haven't.

    Just wanted to give you a thumbs up here for being a really good dad.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #14

    Mar 22, 2009, 10:08 AM

    Well, you married her and had children with her. I did not. I still don't know why this makes her "the mother" and not "your mother."

    Also - unless your name and address are part of the background you keep offering to post they are not allowed on this site.
    jjwoodhull's Avatar
    jjwoodhull Posts: 1,378, Reputation: 239
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    #15

    Mar 22, 2009, 10:16 AM
    Hi NCDad... I think it's great that you are renewing your relationship with your children! Many, many parents in this country are struggling with how to pay for their kids' college tuition - divorced or not. Now that you and your daughter are on better terms, sit down with her and work together to explore all financial options.

    Explain to her that you wish you had the money to hand to her, but that is not the case. Go online and reseach all scholarship possibilities. Explain that she may have to take on her own share of student loans. Help her to find a summer job that can at least cover her spending money. Find out what the school offers for work/study programs. Tell her she will need to have a part time job while in college.

    If you approach the situation as a team, you will get further. Also, if she is responsible for some of her own expenses she will be more serious in her approach to her studies.
    DoulaLC's Avatar
    DoulaLC Posts: 10,488, Reputation: 1952
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    #16

    Mar 22, 2009, 11:17 AM

    Great idea to suggest splitting the cost three ways. Do not take on anymore than you can afford however... especially since you are living pay check to pay check. She has her whole working life ahead of her to pay off student loans... nursing is an excellent choice by the way... and you need to be thinking about socking away some money bit by bit for retirement.
    Her school should be able to help her out with various financial aid packages to go over.

    Keep the communication lines open with the kids... they usually do come around as they get older and more mature. I know my own kids had to be prodded at times to give their dad a call, see if he wanted to get together for dinner or a movie, something... and he only lives 5 minutes away! They get so busy with work and/or school and wrapped up in their own lives they forget and just don't always think about others as they should. Now they spend more time together when he is not working and they call, text, or e-mail more frequently. Next step... getting them to call their grandparents once in awhile!. :)
    AlpineAnnie's Avatar
    AlpineAnnie Posts: 77, Reputation: 13
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    #17

    Mar 23, 2009, 05:42 AM

    There are a couple more options: If your daughter is truly just interested in getting her nurse's degree - and not choosing a school based on where her friend's are going then she can:

    Go to a 2 year college to get the first 2 years and her Associate's out of the way (The first year curriculum is basically identical at all accredited schools other than trade schools) and it would be far cheaper. If moving away from home is also part of her objective then maybe she could move in with you for that first year of college or look into getting an apartment with a roommate close to the school. She can get a job while she's in school to help offset the expenses, buy her textbooks in a used condition from the school bookstore.

    Once she has her Associates Degree she can then transfer to a 4 year school to get her Bachelor's. By then she may be able to save more towards the cost and find that living on her own is cheaper than living in the dorm.

    Student loans can be done in her name and sometimes financial aid will only rely on one parent's income when the parents are divorced.

    Contact the Financial Aid office of the school she wishes to attend and see what they can help with.

    If your daughter's ACT scores (or SAT's) are good enough, it's possible that the school has some of their own internal scholarships available.

    My sons were able to get school scholarships based on their ACT scores at state college that paid for room and board/ and textbooks.

    Hopefully this will give you some more ideas.
    AlpineAnnie's Avatar
    AlpineAnnie Posts: 77, Reputation: 13
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    #18

    Mar 30, 2009, 03:58 AM
    NCDad: If college costs were not addressed in your divorce paperwork - then you are not obligated to pay for it. If your daughter is serious about attending college and is needing help to fund it - then you need to call her and schedule a meeting with her and if possible, her mother, to discuss the options. College is a privilege - not a right and you are not an ATM. Then a visit is in order to the Financial Aid office of the school where your daughter can apply for Federal student loans (subsidized and unsubsidized Stafford loans). Those loans, while needing parents income on the applications, would be taken in your daughter's name and they can start being paid while she is still in school or 6 months after graduation. Has your daughter already applied and been accepted?

    On a side note: I just looked up Eastern Carolina and although I don't see the brochure for Fall/2009 - it is there for 2008 and I doubt the fees have changed a lot. Tuition per semester is $2,000 and some change - without room and board - for NC residents. So - that is far less than $15,000 per year - especially if your daughter lives with someone (you?) that is near the campus where she can commute. If not, then maybe there should be a discussion about her attending a school that is close to you for the first 2 years and then transferring.

    Are they simply telling you that the cost is $15k? Textbooks and lab fees would add a couple of hundred.

    If you live in Greenville and your daughter lived with you while she attended school - she would be able to meet most of that cost herself if she had a job as well.

    You may not have been consulted about the decisions but maybe it's time to make yourself heard.

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