[excon]

Hello:

He looks to the past few years or so, and declares that what he did worked because we haven't been attacked again...

But, look at Spain. After their subways were attacked in 2004, they WITHDREW from Iraq, and haven't been attacked again...

Hmmm...

So, does torturing prisoners keep us safe?? Or does being a good world citizen keep us safe?? I don't know.

excon

[sarnian]

All I know is to stay away from Cheney on a hunting trip.
And as his eyesight must be problematic, may be his logic is problematic too !

[speechlesstx]

That depends on one's perspective. We can surrender to Islamic extremism or confront it... courage or cowardice. I think the choice is obvious.

[NeedKarma]

.. courage or cowardice.

You seem to think those are the only choices - that is indeed the neocons view.

[artlady]

That's because him and his cronies who caused the entire fiasco got what they wanted. For anyone who has not seen the loose change videos,I highly recommend it.It will change your perspective.

Loose Change Final Cut

[excon]

We can surrender to Islamic extremism or confront it ... courage or cowardice.

Hello Steve:

Oh, I don't think the Spaniards caved. I think they got about Iraq, what we FINALLY got about Iraq - only a little sooner.

In fact, a Spanish court convicted 21 men in the bombings.

Using your logic, policies such as torture and rendition to Gitmo mean that if a country is attacked by terrorists, and its government does X, and there are no terrorist attacks for some period thereafter, then that is "proof" that "X stops terrorism".

I don't make that same conclusion.

Contrarily, I believe that what Spain did constitutes "proof" that the way to stop terrorism and to keep the citizenry safe, is to STOP invading and occupying Muslim countries. And, to STOP capturing and torturing accused terrorists and keeping them forever WITHOUT a trial.

Spain, on the other hand convicted these 21 men, in a trial with FULL DUE PROCESS rights. THEN they put them in cages for life.

THAT is what I believe have kept the Spanish people safe.

excon

[tomder55]

Yeah it's called submission... Dhimmi

In order of events:
AQ orders them out of Iraq.
Spain doesn't leave
AQ commits terrorist attack in Madrid.
Spanish elect appeasers who announce they will leave Iraq.

The Spanish have indeed arrested a lot of jihadists in their country .But that is because Spain is still one of the top breeding grounds for jihadistan . They have visions of returning Spain to Al Andalus ;a Moorish reference to the four-fifths of Spain that was ruled by Muslims for 800 years until 1492. After an April bombing in Algiers an organization called Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb said: "We will not be in peace until we set our foot again in our beloved al-Andalus."

Meanwhile the ETA has also stepped up it's terrorists attacks on the country including the murder of a former councilman Isaias Carrasco in Arrasate as he left his home with his wife and daughte just prior to the 2008 election ,and a terror bombing at the Madrid airport two years ago.

Politically Spain is as divided if not more so than we are and is growing as the Zapatero government stepped up radical socialist change. Commentators say the country is more polarized today than at any time since the 1936-1939 Spanish Civil War.

Recently AQ ordered Spain out of Afghanistan. According to an April 22 report in El Pais, a daily newspaper that is close to the Zapatero government, the C.N.I.(Spanish Secret Service) believes that al-Qaeda has established an active cell in Spain and that the country is now the group's prime target in Europe.
Jihadists proselytize at the hundreds of unofficial mosques that operate in garages and basements throughout Spain. According to El Pais, terrorists recruited in Spain are trained in Afghanistan as well as in Africa, where AQ trains them in terror tactics.Then they return to Spain .The concentrate in the northeastern region of Catalonia, especially in Barcelona.

Zapatero had hoped to appease Islamic extremists by withdrawing the 1,300 Spanish troops deployed to Iraq But Spain's military presence in Afghanistan and Lebanon, as well as the government's continuing crackdown on jihadists , including the trials ,ensures that it will remain a target on al-Qaeda's list.

[speechlesstx]

Thats because him and his cronies who caused the entire fiasco got what they wanted. For anyone who has not seen the loose change videos,I highly recommend it.It will change your perspective.

Loose Change Final Cut

I love it when people blame me and my cronies for starting this. Forget Loose Change, spend some time at Dhimmi Watch and Jihad Watch instead.

[inthebox]

Using your logic, policies such as torture and rendition to Gitmo mean that if a country is attacked by terrorists, and its government does X, and there are no terrorist attacks for some period of time thereafter, then that is "proof" that "X stops terrorism".

I don't make that same conclusion.

Contrarily, I believe that what Spain did constitutes "proof" that the way to stop terrorism and to keep the citizenry safe, is to STOP invading and occupying Muslim countries. And, to STOP capturing and torturing accused terrorists and keeping them forever WITHOUT a trial.


excon

What country were we occupying before and after WTC 1 bombing?

What country was Spain occupying before the Madrid bombing?








G&P

[BABRAM]

Hi Ex-

Security couldn't had wheeled Cheney out of the White House fast enough. To put it bluntly, Richard is senile and now he's played his last publicity card after a career of mostly poor decisions.

[speechlesstx]

Hello Steve:

Oh, I don't think the Spaniards caved. I think they got about Iraq, what we FINALLY got about Iraq - only a little sooner.

Right, and you honestly believe that's why their new socialist PM announced they were pulling out of Iraq the day after he was sworn in? The news made at least on guy happy, Muqtada al-Sadr.

In fact, a Spanish court convicted 21 men in the bombings.

To the extent that Islamic terrorism can be managed as a law enforcement issue, great. But history shows that treating it as such is a mistake, and yet that's exactly where Obama wants to take us again. We need more than tough talk and noble sounding catch phrases about bringing terrorists to justice.

Using your logic, policies such as torture and rendition to Gitmo mean that if a country is attacked by terrorists, and its government does X, and there are no terrorist attacks for some period thereafter, then that is "proof" that "X stops terrorism".

See above. There's a difference between talking tough and taking action, a difference the Jihadists understand.

I don't make that same conclusion.

Contrarily, I believe that what Spain did constitutes "proof" that the way to stop terrorism and to keep the citizenry safe, is to STOP invading and occupying Muslim countries. And, to STOP capturing and torturing accused terrorists and keeping them forever WITHOUT a trial.

By all means, ex, it IS grand and noble to stand firmly on the side of due process. It's also naïve to think the Jihadists give a rat's behind. I really wonder how many people even have an inkling of their mindset, because while you're celebrating this alleged return to civilization they're busy planning carnage, chaos and death and celebrating the eventual overthrow of all things western and establishing their grand Islamic theocracy in your back yard.

Spain, on the other hand convicted these 21 men, in a trial with FULL DUE PROCESS rights. THEN they put them in cages for life.

THAT is what I believe have kept the Spanish people safe.

Stay tuned.

[excon]

I have interest on you,i would also like to know more of whom you are

Hello happy:

I have interest on you too. Where have you been my whole life.. Contact me again... I horny for you.

excon

[cdad]

[QUOTE=excon;2687970]

I have interest on you,i would also like to know more of whom you are /QUOTE]Hello happy:

I have interest on you too. Where have you been all my life.. Please contact me again... I'm horny for you.

excon

Lol. Im sure she would love you long time for few dolla.

[paraclete]

Hello:

He looks to the past few years or so, and declares that what he did worked because we haven't been attacked again.....

But, look at Spain. After their subways were attacked in 2004, they WITHDREW from Iraq, and haven't been attacked again....

Hmmm...

So, does torturing prisoners keep us safe???? Or does being a good world citizen keep us safe???? I dunno.

excon

Ex I would say it is minding your own business that keeps you safe and as you can't do that, I expect someone will send you a wake up call again some day. The Spanish got the message, stop meddling in what doesn't concern you.

As to Cheney's methods, I suggest he experience them first hand. Maybe he knows where OBL is and has something to tell us?

Before you remind me, I know my own nation has a bad habit of joining you in tilting at windmills, we play Sancho to your Quixote which if you remember was a spanish alagory

[speechlesstx]

Ex, were you at Charlie Sheen's party?

[excon]

Hello again, Steve:

Damn paparazzi.

excon

[speechlesstx]

I knew it.